The shooter games thread returns! The Empire Of Ammo says, EVERYBODY GETS SHOT!

General Discussion
2281

It’s not hard because of the commands required to move your ship. In the FGD execution thread people are making fun of simple commands, as though there isn’t specific timing and precision requirements for techniques like zoning or block strings. My complaint is the definition of execution seems to be all over the place.

In arcades. Meanwhile the poster above me mentions the Y button. It’s nonetheless an artificial barrier (like a lot of mannerisms in Japan arcades). And unlike fighters, even in the busiest arcade, most shooters don’t have a queue of players waiting to jump in.

2282

Why yes. You will indeed be recognized for your part in the creation of his av. Um, she DIDN’T have panties? :wow: Nice job then.

on the second part of your post, yeah. Trying to pilot an overfed F-15 through a metalstorm of bullets ain’t for the weak of heart. I don’t think you could throw a basketball through some of those things without getting it killed, yet you have to do that for However many stages. Sometimes for bragging rights, sometimes just to earn the right to take on a certian character or stage. Imagine Shin Akuma as a battleship. Controllers should come with forcefields because sometimes, they need to get shot too.
-Starhammer-

2283

The argument over commands and shizz is honestly a petty argument that doesn’t touch on real execution - which is that which is necessary to perform at a high level.

2284

4th in the US now at OE. Finding out about each character’s special attack ramped my game up. I finish bosses off quicker, and I’m able to beat some I hadn’t before before they ran off. Peaked at about 3.5M points with Esmerelda. Shooting for 10M, but that involves at least four complete passes. #_O

2285

The 1cc is the goal. Other than survival, the only other thing is score/collecting secrets. If you can’t finish the game on 1cc, then you’re not going to have a very high score. It’s actually not a good idea to even play for score until you can finish the game on 1cc. Dying can be just as unforgiving when playing for score because in many games, Mushihime-sama, Mushi-Futari, the Metal Slug games, the Donpachi games, it causes you to lose all of the items that you’ve picked up and they don’t get added to your end of stage score. You also don’t get the no-miss bonus.

I don’t know about you, but some would consider beating other casual players at the arcade who are of equal skill level to be a lot more welcoming and reassuring than the sheer frustration of not being able to finish a shooter without credit feeding for the first few weeks or even months of playing. I started playing shmups back in 2006, but I wasn’t that serious with them because I was still into fighting games, action, adventure, third-person shooters, etc. I would basically play a few of them every once in a while for a month or two, then not touch one for several months. It wasn’t really until early this year that I started playing them seriously and made shoot-em-ups my genre of choice. My first 1cc was actually Perfect Cherry Blossom back in March/April, and even that took me a month. Since then, I’ve managed to 1cc 4 more games, and I’m currently working on Battle Bakraid. Had I devoted that same amount of time to a fighting game, I may not be winning the big tournaments or beating the best players, but I’d be able to hang with the players who are a step above the arcade casuals.

Most games in most genres aren’t insurmountable. With enough time, anyone can beat any video game. The only shooter that comes to mind as being nigh impossible is Dimahoo. When a super player doesn’t even try to dodge some of the bullet patterns and just bomb spams and then finishes the game with no lives and no bombs, I’d say it fits nicely into the category of insurmountable. I also don’t think than anyone has ever no-miss, no-bombed Dodonpachi Dai Ou Jou in its entirety.

2286

IMO, any well tuned shooting game rewards 1cc runs with high scores. This is why more modern examples use continues (or lack thereof) as the requirement for unlocking secret stuff.

2287

^^^

You can get a high score with just a 1cc, but if you want the insanely high scores in the games that have a complex scoring mechanic, then a simple 1cc won’t do.

2288

But the point is that a 1cc is integral to high scoring.

2289

My goal is to have fun, and have a shit-ton of it. If 1cc is fun, go for it. If you just want to beat the game, go for it.

2290

Of course. If you can’t get past the 3rd stage without using a continue then you aren’t going to have a very high score.

2291

The definition of execution varies from genre to genre…

If you have a good way to define ‘execution’, that’s a catch-all for every genre of game, go ahead and give me one…

2292

Honestly? ‘Execution’ is starting to sound like a platitude to me. Some video games are plain difficult as soon as you press Start. Other video games are friendly to casuals, but contain another layer of extreme difficulty under certain conditions (super play runs, competitive play, etc). Bluntly put, Capcom’s fighters belong in the latter category. I’d rather have difficulty of high-level play judged by concrete, quantifiable terms (frames, scoring/gameplay systems, dexterity etc) instead of a catch-all term that could apply to anything.

I think scoring is the ultimate goal of shooters (as well as almost every score-based arcade game-- another reason why I think it doesn’t work to rank arcade-borne genres by ‘execution’). There’s so much attention paid to the scoring systems, and the main incentive to 1cc is the acceptable score you should achieve for winning without continue penalties (a lower scoring rank, your score resetting to 0, earning 1 point for continuing, etc).

And after you 1cc, your mission continues by exploiting anything else to supplement the 1cc score (such as milking patterns, kill bonuses, quick shooting, chaining, bullet grazing etc. And I forgot the term, but in certain games, other enemies show up after you manage to destroy a certain wave of enemies or a sub-boss with time to spare. You see that a lot in Ikaruga).

At the same time, if you and your peers in your skill level aren’t good enough to 1cc a game, it’s an accomplishment in itself to get the highest score in your group as you all improve. So I don’t agree that 1cc is invariably the goal, unless you want it to be.

And of course having fun with the game happy smiley faces is the goal of shooters above all else.

EDIT: Late, but

The heart of a shooter, which motivates you to play a certain way besides shooting and not dying, is almost always the score system. Now, I can’t think of a shooter that actually kills you if you don’t score properly, but Radiant Silvergun forces you to kill enemies in same-color to score exponential chain bonuses, which leads directly to level up your weapon strength. In that example you are forced to execute precisely, or face an extremely uphill battle later on.

At the same time, is the goal of a fighting game to see the cute colorful 20 second long ending, or to master your character and the game fundamentals so you can win against human comp? Obviously the latter for most FG fans, but the former can be a goal for other people. The same is true of shooters that surviving to see the ending doesn’t mean much of anything for most shmup fans.

I just don’t agree that a lot of games can’t be played with a handicap. Arcade games do have systems in place to cater to high level play or execution, but really, any game that gives a player the opportunity to be ranked best in the world, should have the potential for skillful play.

See what bothers me about this? That thread was titled ‘non FG games with high execution.’ My answer to that is,‘most games, if you want to play them that way.’ But it just turned into a ‘my game is more hardcore than yours’ contest. It sounds stuck up.

2293

The difficulty that it takes to reach a goal that is inherent in a specific game then? For example story-based games, the difficulty in reaching the end… for fighting games(designed for competition) would be to increase win percentage, which requires difficult concepts and combos in most cases…

Puzzle games have one of two goals: For competition, is increase win percentage, which depending upon what type of puzzle game it is, requires increasing speed and use of complex patterns that may require some manual dexterity to use.

Or completing the game which may be an insurmountable task in itself without the use of complex patterns and increasing speed…

Therefore, I would consider Tetris a high execution game…

Shooting games don’t necessarily have to be high execution if you have unlimited credits to feed the machine, and high scores and 1cc are self-imposed goals…

The ultimate goal is to complete the game, and it is highly possible without high level techniques… just because there are high execution techniques in a game does not make it a ‘high execution game’…

Therefore I would not consider shmups a genre with high execution ceilings(except for ones that force you to start from the beginning after dying such as galaga)…

That’s just my opinion though, feel free to disagree…

2294

Oh my fucking GOD I had forgotten about Fucking Dimahoo!!! :pray: If I was gonna make a list of the hardest of games per ten year period, That damn thing would get it for TWENTY years!! If the phrase,“Everybody gets shot!!” were in Webster’s dictionary, A Screenshot of that game and a picture of some poor dude crying would be on the page under it. Way back when the Genesis version of Thunderforce IV came out, I challenged my then Navy buddies: Beat this game without dying, and I will BUY you the system of your choice. The rule was, once you had shown me proof of it, (Basically, I’m sitting there watching your greasy cock grabbers on the controller doing the deed…NOT THAT DEED! :wasted: ) then your name would be recorded by me in front of as many witnessess as could be found. Once accomplished, The prize is good for as long as you can reach me. By any system, I mean…ANY system. Genesis, Nintendo, Atari, Apple, PC, Arcade cabinet… The next day, the next week, the next lifetime. you name it, and by God, I would do nothing less than my best to obtain for you. I even offered my OWN Genesis system for those who would take the challenge. God bless em’ those men and women fought with all their hearts. NONE of them ever did the nigh impossible, myself included. I declaired the challenge over once I left the military. I am SO tempted to re-open it with the game Dimahoo. I swear. I would fucking bow before the trimuphant one in addition to the prize. Since I’m no longer able to cover the price of such a prize myself, I would have to have help in making sure that a victor, if one should arise, would not be cheated of what they have earned. Still, for THAT fucking game, I don’t know if that would even be a problem…

-Starhammer-

2295

You wanna have fun? Then it is time for…

Spoiler

HYPER MEDIA SQUATS!!!****

-Starhammer-

2296

This thread warms my heart.

2297

I think this is a shmup we can all get behind…

[media=youtube]38LjvLB_ySU[/media]

2298

:rofl: Shoot the butt. Who knew that a woman being able to shake it would become a high-level boss in a videogame? :rofl:

-Starhammer-

2299

local K-Mart has Death Smiles for 15 bucks. Will probably scoop it next Wednesday.

2300

http://www.indieroyale.com/

check out the shooter called scoregasm in that bundle, seems pretty interesting. plus it’s hella cheap and you get some other games with it.

im outi

Roberth