1043

Yeah, no problem. Rog should be up by Monday, I already took all the screenshots and since he has so many identical hitboxes it shouldn’t take me too long to edit them. After that I’ll start with Bison.

1044

if it is no problem for you, can you do Zangief, Ken and Ryu after Bison?? thank in advance.

1045

I think R | C did all those, Warrior’s Dreams has them all. It would be nice to have a link with all the hitboxes that were at Cheng’s site.

1046

I would love to see Sagat’s hitboxes. If you could do that I’d really appreciate it.

1047

I PM’ed R | C to get his permission. Assuming I do, I will post em

1048

Great work Cronopio, from what I remember matercheng did:
Ryu, Ken, Zangief, who else can remember? Think it ws no more that 5 characters total… May be worth waiting till we know for sure. so u dont put all that work in. Im certain he didn’t do Rog or Sagat so either of them would be cool.

In other news I’ve been contacted by a Malaysian guy who is hooked into the whole Chinese / Korean HF scene (which it seems is a sub scene of the CE scene). Anyway, he has some tournament videos which he said he’s going to send me, I think the same footage I never managed to get off ‘KoreaSF2CE’, so thats great news :slight_smile:

Btw, are people using thier SRK handles on 2dfighter.com? Leave a list of your handles and ill put them in the first post.
Crayfish.

btw, whats happened to all the ‘rep’? I was diging being a ‘SRK powerhouse’ or whatever it was…

1049

Yes. He did Ken, Ryu, Gief, Chun, and Guile.

Great. Where can I find them? Will you post them for download?

Wiz reset the rep for everyone (although mods started at ‘GDLK’ which means they got like 5-8 bars) as of 1/1/09

1050

Did Bison still have some or all of those horrible match ups in CE or was he even or dominant in all his match ups?

Is Balrog playable in CE or is he much weaker? What changes did they make to him between CE and HF?

I’m considering unplugging the HF chip in my CE arcade. I don’t like the fact that Bison, and to a lesser degree, Sagat and Guile, have been nerfed. Yeah, sure, the crappier guys are better in HF but they’re still the crappier guys. It seems to me that all the top tier guys in HF are top tier in CE and then CE also has Bison who is colourful and interesting. The top tier guys are the ones I’m most interested in playing. More of them is better IMO.

Also, most of the new moves look crappy to me and all of them are impure lol as I was a WW, and even more, a CE player back in the day. The vertical specials of Honda and Blanka are terrible. The hurricane kick in the air is bad too. Chun Li’s fireball? No good. Zangief’s low lariat isn’t too bad and I like the fact that they made him much better overall. Yoga teleport isn’t so bad either as it seems to suit Dhalsim but I don’t think it makes the game any better.

I also don’t like the fact that all the cpu players use their secondary colour schemes. Guile’s blue is about as cool as his green but the rest are worse and some, like Zangief, are terrible.

Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE Hyper Fighter, I just think I love it a bit less than CE. Who knows though, maybe CE would feel slow and boring after all the recent time I’ve put into HF?

1051

Not really sure I’m getting the “Sagat and Guile being nerfed” thing. If anything, Sagat is better in HF because of the higher speed.

1052

and where can i download or get this matercheng’s Ken, Ryu, Gief, Chun, and Guile hitboxes??

1053

That’s what I’ve heard from some of the experts on Xbox Live. I’m almost positive Sagat’s recovery from his Tiger shots is slower in HF than CE (and that the frames for each are on this thread somewhere). I think there’s more to it but my memory fails me once again.

Maybe some others can weigh in.

1054

I already gave Warrior’s Dreams permission to re-post the hitbox images that I made. I’m sure there’s quite a few of you who’ve downloaded the images before I got rid of my site (mastercheng.com) - if you did, feel free to re-post, spread those images around anywhere. After all, that’s why I made them in the first place.

All I ask is that you make the proper acknowledgments when doing so:

R | C (mastercheng): Ronnie Cheng - did all the work to capture and add hitboxes.

Special Thanks for providing instructions and consultation on the capturing and enabling hitbox process:
NoAffinity - Chris Gleed
felineki - Morgan Biddinger

1055

I’ve spent some time tonight reading a CE thread and I keep changing my mind about whether I want to switch the cabinet to CE or not :slight_smile: Either way, they are the two best games I’ve ever played.

1056

Tessai:

> Did Bison still have some or all of those horrible match ups in CE or was he even or dominant in all his match ups?

Guile and Gief would have given Bison trouble in CE, but only Guile had a serious shot at stopping him. Bison didn’t have to let Gief touch him if he didn’t want to. Sagat and the shotos also posed little threat to Bison if he didn’t feel like getting trapped in the corner.

> Is Balrog playable in CE or is he much weaker? What changes did they make to him between CE and HF?

It’s a mixed bag: He lost the ability to combo after Dash Upper, but gained (more?) invincibility on this Turn Punch so he could deal with projectiles better. He’s much better at fighting shotos in HF than in CE.

> I’m considering unplugging the HF chip in my CE arcade. I don’t like the fact that Bison, and to a lesser degree, Sagat and Guile, have been nerfed. Yeah, sure, the crappier guys are better in HF but they’re still the crappier guys. It seems to me that all the top tier guys in HF are top tier in CE and then CE also has Bison who is colourful and interesting. The top tier guys are the ones I’m most interested in playing. More of them is better IMO.

scratches head Aside from morbid curiosity and/or unless you’re a huge Bison fanboy, I see zero reason to play CE over HF. Sagat and Guile aren’t nerfed, they’re just toned down (and they’re still top tier!). Ryu, Ken, Blanka, Honda, Chun-li, Zangief are all better (Ken is waaaaaaaay more fun in HF, which is why 90% of my country plays him IN EVERY GAME EVER). Only Dhalsim, Vega and Bison are worse. Balrog’s about the same, though he has better matches against important characters.

> Also, most of the new moves look crappy to me and all of them are impure lol as I was a WW, and even more, a CE player back in the day. The vertical specials of Honda and Blanka are terrible. The hurricane kick in the air is bad too. Chun Li’s fireball? No good. Zangief’s low lariat isn’t too bad and I like the fact that they made him much better overall. Yoga teleport isn’t so bad either as it seems to suit Dhalsim but I don’t think it makes the game any better.

See above. Once you get used to RyuKEn AirHK there’s no going back. And the HF versions of Blanka/HOnda’s vertical specials are still the best those moves have ever been. Chun’s FB isn’t so good, but her mid-air SBK is fun.

> I also don’t like the fact that all the cpu players use their secondary colour schemes. Guile’s blue is about as cool as his green but the rest are worse and some, like Zangief, are terrible.

Irrelevant, but I have to say that with the exception of Dhalsim, all HF colours are better than CE colours. Ryu, Guile, Blanka, Chun-li, Vega, Balrog, Sagat, M.Bison are all great. Gief’s is okay. Sim’s is good though CE scary Voodoo Master was better. Balrog’s is meh.

BTW, if you’re playing the CPU, HF CPU >>>>>>> CE CPU. HF CPU was the first “hard” version of Street Fighter and is still moderately challenging even now.

> Don’t get me wrong, I LOVE Hyper Fighter, I just think I love it a bit less than CE. Who knows though, maybe CE would feel slow and boring after all the recent time I’ve put into HF?

Uhm, I would say so, yes.

1057

Ultima, thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

When I said that Sagat and Guile were “nerfed” I was using the term incorrectly it seems. I didn’t mean, and don’t think, that they were squashed like Bison was, just that they were “toned down” a bit as you put it. Still, as a big Sagat fan, I don’t like it that he was toned down.

I think you’ve convinced me to keep the cab HF. I was always a CE guy back in the day but I started playing HF on the 360 because there was no CE. Anyway, after playing HF quite a bit and reading the forums I jumped ship and became an HF guy. Just got a little sentimental recently I guess :wink:

I really like the fact that Zangief is better and therefore more “usable” and that Balrog matches up better with the Shotos. They are both really cool characters IMO.

What did they do to Vega to make him worse? Too bad. I think he’s cool. Why would they tone him down when he wasn’t even strong to begin with?

1058

BTW, I forgot to mention: Yes, Sagat’s Tiger Shot recovery is worse in HF than in CE. Actually, HF has him with the worst recovery in the entire series. His Tiger Shots are still really fast though and he’s still really good. IMO HF Sagat is strong but fair; CE Sagat is borderline broken (see also: OG Sagat in ST, who has CE Sagat’s projectiles).

Actually, I just checked: HF Sagat’s projectiles apparently are determined by last button that was used. i.e to shorten the recovery, tap LP/LK beforehand. That said, the recovery is still the worst in the series.

On this note, HF GUile apparently has the worst recovery on Sonic Boom. Which I find odd because I can combo after HF Sonic Boom a lot more easily than I can in SSF2 or ST.

re: HF Vega

Vega had three things done to him in HF. In order of harm: Throw damage reduced, hjit boxes reduced, overall damage reduced. Actually, this is pretty much what they did across the board for all characters, but Vega got hit really hard. Vega’s arsenal in CE was never that good, but his really fast speed plus the high priority on his attacks made up for their crappiness. But what really set him apart was his throw, which was the second strongest attack in the game (only SPD did more damage). Three throws from Vega plus one other hit would kill you. And with Vega’s speed, getting those throws wasn’t that hard. CE Vega wasn’t the best character, but he was almost as retarded as CE Bison.

Plus, I heard in the JPN version Vega could lock you down with repeat s.LP. Not sure how true that is though. I remember doing some testing on PSX SF Collection 2, and indeed I could keep a character in blockstun in the corner with walking s.LP, repeat (you cold let go the controller and the opponent would keep on blocking in high block forever), but it was one of those situations where if the opponent did anything - crouching, stick out a normal, DP, etc. - the lockstun trap would be broken. So I’m not sure if this was actually something that existed in JPN CE or if it was something that looked like a trap when it wasn’t.

In HF, though, Vega’s throw does standard damage, so now it takes 5 to kill. Plus, his hit boxes were reduced, so now it was harder to keep people locked down, plus his damage was so low that it made his crappy normals look even worse by comparison. Vega’s game plan didn’t change from before - his goal was still to land as many throws as possible - but now he has to work about 40% harder with worse tools. He did gain a better Crystal Roll and a redizzy, but the redizzy only worked on certain characters and was barely a factor.

His only saving grace in HF is that he still gives Guile fits. But now he gets raped 10-0 (at best, 9-1) by Blanka. :frowning:

1059

Wow, you know your stuff. Good info. Now that you mention it, and it’s been a long time since I’ve played CE, I do remember Vega’s throws being crazy strong.

1060

Good stuff, Ultima. I just realized that the reason I think Sagat hasn’t changed in HF is because of the increased speed.

1061

lol, there are no 10-0 matches in all of SFII’HF.

1062

Blanka-Vega and Zangief-Bison are 10-0 matches in HF. Well, I could see Blanka-Vega being 9-1, or maybe 8-2 at best, but Gief-Bison? 10-0. God’s Bison couldn’t beat Gief.