Thanks, but I’m obviously doing something wrong if that stuff rapes me. I’ll keep tinkering around though.
That’s one of those things that’s a lot harder to time the counter online than it is offline. Depending on your spacing you should be able to throw out a number of moves that hit them when they’re coming down from the SRK. That is the key to playing it safe though. Hit em on the way down, not when they land.
In theory, yes. If you time it perfectly you can do a reversal move(ex. SRK) the moment you land. You can also throw them if they’re close enough sometimes. But in practice, if you have enough energy left, I think it’s safer to just block. And always block low! If you mess up the timing of your reversal move, you’ll eat stupid damage from the HHS. It’s a lot of damage even if you block, but it’s really bad if you get hit
thx play me sometime its getting harder lately to find any good competition online usually all i find now are scrubby blankas n kens that are too easy too beat n dont improve my skills n when i use sagat most ppl in ranked matches quit on me AFTER i win :sad:
EDIT: not a big deal since online rank don’t matter but HF has the most bullshit ranking system ever i went from 15 to 1200 just by losing 9 matches and whenever i crack the top 50 i lose 1 or two due to lag or a quitter n i’m back to 200-300 rank :annoy:
Considering we’ve never played, that’s quite the accomplishment. Seems like a fun game, let me try: OMG, I TOTALLY BEASTED YOU 1337-0, THEN YOU QUIT EARLY!! YOU’RE SO BAD!!!1
Unfortunately I am unable to donate, but I’m always willing to host any files if it would help alleviate any bandwidth costs, etc.
Question: Is priority just how far the two hit boxes intersect? I remember Apoc mentioning that Balrog’s short can stop Ryu’s Dragon Punch in HF, but according to the data, that’s impossible.
Just curious as to how they would rank skill? Because I’m wondering is it something like 3S’s Grade Ranking, because even if they did something like that, it wouldn’t be a fair ranking at all still. I’ve seen guys like Daigo beast in 3S, but after they get like a Grade C- or something.
It would be nearly impossible to rank someone on skill, unless you had someone sitting there watching the entire matchup and breaking it down bit by bit of everything, and even then it would still involve alot of theory fighting.
To me, that whole ranking system is bogus, because it makes too many people worry about their own rankings.
the 3s grading and the ranking system are totally different. 3s grading isn’t based on how good you are not to mention it doesn’t factor into your rank on XBL. To rank up in 3s on XBL all you have to do is play a lot of games. In a nutshell the ranking system on HF works by the skill of the people you play against. You’re awarded a certain number of points, the more you win the more points you get. If you beat people with the same amount of points you have or higher, you’ll: 1) gain more points 2) they lose points 3) you’ll either rank up (depending on the amount of points the person ranked above you has) and they’ll rank down.
Priority is how much the red box sticks out from the blue box. When these boxes aren’t close together, it means you have a much higher chance for hitting them before they hit you, giving you a clean hit. When the boxes are closer together, it means there’s a much higher chance that you’ll trade hits or get beat clean, depending on what your opponents boxes look like.
That’s what I thought. Prior to seeing the hit box data, I always assumed it was programmed that ‘X’ move would beat ‘Y’ move. This still doesn’t explain Apoc’s statement.
SweetVJohnny: If what you said is true, and yes it should be true I’m not debating how to read the red and blue boxes, that would mean zangief’s crouching fierce has more priority than crouching strong, or one could say that c.fierce is less vulnerable than c.strong (since the red part extends farther in c. fierce than c. strong), but for some reason, I have more success with low strong compared to low fierce as anti air against ryu’s jump rh.
Problem with hit box data is it doesn’t factor distance or timing. I don’t really know how it works anyway to be honest.
I.E. Guile’s low strong usually beats all guile’s jumping attacks from a far distance, but it almost never works against the cpu guile because cpu guile knows exactly when to hit air roundhouse. Same thing I heard Apoc say low strong with shotos beats almost all of guile’s jump ins but cpu guile hits me, and zangief’s low fierce will beat ryu’s jump rh unless ryu does it early, but why would ryu want to do it early (he’ll miss the combo) and if gief takes the early rh ryu will get thrown…
Hit boxes are a bit more complicated than just Red and Blue boxes.
There are several factors to consider as well.
The Information (in terms of practicality) is Relative
If you look at just a single character’s hit boxes, you can begin to make suggestions on proper strategy. Such as use X in this situation, and use Y in this situation. However, this doesn’t always apply to practical gameplay because of several other factors involved. For one, the information is relative. The hit box information becomes more significant when you compare it to your opponent’s attack. What’s high priority against some, may be low against others. It can be very case specific.
Distance (horizontal and vertical)
Depending on how far (horizontal distance) or how high you & your opponent is (vertical distance), the effectiveness of your move will vary.
Angle
This is similar to Distance. Jumping at your opponent moves the hit boxes at an angle, so don’t forget to keep this in mind and how it affects the collision points of the boxes.
Timing
Some moves, if performed late, will always get stuffed. This is because the the player allowed the blue portion to “active” and move toward your opponent’s red area. However, if the move is performed late, it’s possible to trade hits with your opponent - this is because the late move is “activated” deep into your opponent’s area, forcing your box to overlap with the opponent’s . This overlap instance, as opposed to moving the blue box toward your opponent makes a big difference in some cases.
Frame Rates
The start up/active/recovery frames of your attacks also plays a role in the effectiveness of your moves.
Humans vs CPU
CPU’s gameplay patterns are completely different from humans. What works on terribly on CPU may work well against humans.
That’s basically the gist of it. I plan to explain hit boxes more after I complete all the character data. It’ll help if I use visual examples.
The important thing to note is that your gameplay shouldn’t be dictated by the boxes. Instead it should be used as a resource to explain why certain combinations result in the way they do. What looks good on paper isn’t always practical in gameplay - it’s important to try things out for yourself.
i think its kind of dangerous to try to define priority so succinctly because it leads to the same arguments people on these boards have as to what it means to have ‘high’ priority. overall priority is a nebulous concept that tries to combine a move’s hit/vuln boxes at differing intervals, not to mention startup frames and active frames.
I’m not saying what you said above about box properties isnt true, but it isnt always the only notion of priority. there are examples of moves where the hit and vulnerable boxes almost completely overlap (or the hitbox is actually CONTAINED inside the vulnerable box), that have decent priority simply because they either a) come out really fast and/or b) come out at an angle relative to the character such that it stuffs other attacks from a specific approach with relative ease.
edit: outprioritized in much greater detail above D:
The term “priority” is such a generalized and RELATIVE term.
I repeat, RELATIVE.
A high priority move against one move, may be low against others.
A high priority move in some situations is low in others.
A high priority move in some timings is low in others.
etc, etc.
“Priority” is a very old term, and is very well defunct.
It’s best to talk about a certain move in its specific situation,
instead of the move in itself.
Example:
Incorrect:
Zangief’s PPP is a high priority anti air.
Correct:
Zangief’s PPP can easily stuff Ryu’s jumping (insert attack here).
Zangief’s PPP gets stuffed quite often by Ryu’s jumping (insert attack here).
Zangief’s PPP commonly trades hits with Ryu’s jumping (insert attack here) when performed (insert timing here).
I didn’t intend to trivialize what makes a move “high priority”, I was just trying to describe things simply to help Snake understand what all these pictures mean.
Like R | C says, priority is a completely relative concept. Take a look at his data for Ryu. Ryu’s crouching fierce, when fully extended, has a huge amount of red going up in the air, and his blue box is much lower. This makes crouching fierce a very high priority move when an opponent is jumping right on top of him(ex. trying to cross him up). However, if you look at Ryu’s jumping diagonal roundhouse, you’ll see that the red box extends out and below him pretty well. This means that if you jump from far away, you could stuff his crouching fierce easily. So, in some situations, crouching fierce has a really high priority. In other situations, it gets stuffed easily. It’s all relative.
And yes, timing certainly adds another dimension to this. If you’re move doesn’t come out quickly enough to attack, it won’t matter if the hitbox looks nice on paper. You’re gonna get hit. To that end, as cool as all of these hitbox images are(and they are cool!), it’d be even cooler if you could see all the frames of animation for each move. That way, it’d be easier to picture how the timing works into things.
With that being said, once you understand how the hitboxes work, it’s not too difficult to imagine what moves will work well in different situations.
