yes i agree with you about st.hk’s pitfalls, it most certainly has some detractors. your strat against gief is one that i do use actually… shizza of all people taught it to me and it works for me like a charm… however shizza, like you, advocates almost no use of st.hk because of the 2 basic counters gief has: cr.lk ghosted into ex flat and far jump making st.hk wiff and taking a big combo…
i used shizzas strat with good success. however my love of st.hk meant that i modified it to be able to use st.hk in my footsies… i cant spam it at all, but it is still useful to me for that one hit “fuck off” when i can feel them starting to get impatient.
the reason why i didnt put far fp where st.hk is, is because of the psychological damage that far hk does… even when i use st.fp… it seems as if opponents dont really respect it as a move… i feel as iif i’m constantly guessing with it rather than controlling the situation… maybe its just me. but when i use far hk… the mentality shift in opponents is so concrete its easily observable… i like that. so yeah it may just be that st.hk is the obvious “scrub move” whereas the st.fp is the less obvious “pro move” like i said i like them both, just that i get alot of easy reads when i use st.hk rather than st.fp.
shizzas anti-gief strat in a nutshell:
use st.fp instead of st.hk.
stay closer to gief so that neutral jump hk can easily deal with all of his jumpins.
mix up aa’s with neutral jump hk and flying fierce x2 and focus backdash and regular backdash.
st.fp beats a ton of giefs pokes including his cr.lk
and gief cant duck st.fp iirc so that alone makes it alot better versus gief… and well anyone that cant duck it… kinda like akumas st.hk, they are awesome in matches where the opponents cant duck them, and almost useless in matches where opponents can.
gief as shizza says is an inherently stupid matchup… but the way nemo uses BOTH st.fp and st.hk here (even though he loses) is how i try to use it in my footsies… key things to notice are that itabashi knows about cr.lk buffered into ex flat… and so does nemo however nemo still uses probably about 70-30 st.hk to st.fp… an argument could be made that nemo lost because of his use of st.hk… but it could further be argued that he may have lost worse had he NOT used it…
the use of both moves is a conundrum for me at this point, st.hk shits on alot of tactics but loses horribly to others, whereas st.fp doesnt shit on many tctics… but doesnt lose horribly either.
i really think it comes down to smart use of both moves… which can be said of anything… so its a bit redundant for me to point out, i admit.
only off of a far standing lp iirc, which makes it not nearly so abusable.
if he can link it off of cr.lp’s… man thats some bullshit. dont really want to consult frames rigt now.
-edit… consulted the frame guru (prima guide) its only doable off of a far st.lp,(which is duckable) makes sense, capcom generally knows what they are doing, there is alot of commonality between moves and what links from character to character in this game… capcom put ALOT of thought into sf4.
i dont think they knew how susceptible chun was to focus… or they saw chun as susceptible to focus being a way to reign her in, but didnt intend for it to be as good as it is… which is why i think she got no nefs and instead got kikosho.
(im only pointing this out because chun seems to be a glowing wtf on capcoms part… shes perenially one of the better characters… like sagat… i couldnt figure out why capcom wouldnt make the matriarch of streetfighter really good… shes one of the most popular characters in the entire series and capcom has always had a hard on for her)
He is too linear and one dimensional. You can learn most of his really good tools/combos/setups in a few hours. I think he is the definition of a well rounded, but flawed character design. By flawed, I mean that his normals are so good that it really doesn’t take that much to win with him until you get to high skill levels, just press buttons, because all his buttons beat almost everyone else’s buttons.
His crouch strong, for example…that thing is INSANE at stuffing other pokes and specials. That one normal can make the match vs Dictator seem absolutely horrible for dictator, but when you combine that with his absolutely retarded good sweep, and his ability to armor damn near anything, Dictator has to outplay him at a ratio of 1.5-1 or even 2-1 to win.
I find the match as Chun to be pretty tolerable, since Chun has so many options if he isn’t right on top of her. But once he gets in, that goddamn jump roundhouse just rapes her entire wakeup game. IIRC he has an option select sweep that will catch her backdash too.
most charactrs can os sweep chun backdash if they did a safe jump… just block the safejumps… its a bit unnerving at first not being able to use ex sbk… but then you get used to it… os crouch tech is your friend in these situations.
HAHA – j/k - you know we cool!
(hell, even I get caught up with the occasional tendency now and then. Plus, didn’t Dime once say that mashing was gdlk?
Seconded.
Yeah, he’s definitely annoying; finally decided awhile back to pick him up for shits 'n giggles. I feel between taking him up and the matchup info shared by those in the Fellowship ultimately helped to be a lot more confident. High level Rogs can still make me cringe simply because of the fact his buttons just seem to beat everyone else’s stuff.
Yeah Dic is my main and I have a really hard time believing that match is actually 5-5. I mean I win more often than not, but I have to get a good 10 openings to finish it whereas for Rog; well it’s not quite so hard.
Maybe I’m confusing ease of use with actual effectiveness, but all his tools just seem so much more effortless and indiscrimant. It’s like you don’t really need a game plan, the other guy just has to play around whater you choose to do. I certainly don’t feel like I’m ever in control of that match.
i dont really believe it though… its already been said that ex legs >ultra does 400.
my thnking is that sf4’s scaling system omits numbers on the bottom side of things when rounding due to scaling…
her ultra probably does 300 damage when at full charge.
i dont know if it will be worth it in the long run… short short ex legs does 180 and sets the scaling on ultra to 60% if juggled…
which means that short x2 exlegs >u2 will do 360 damage at max capacity… seems quite low… like guile low
however close hk xx exlegs >u2 will do 510 damage to certain characters like guile… which is quite high… it may turn out to be all about the close hk u2 punisher and or hasan shu bla bla exlegs u2 punisher/combos.
right now with what we can only assume, chun will rape her damage output with short short hitconfirm.
What confirmed changes to Chun are there besides U2? I saw that her target combo jump HP got its damage reduced. Is there anything else that we know about?
good find guys… yeah the ultra misses 4 hits… which means that wiz’s assessment that it always does 20 hits is wrong… or perhaps it means that it gets stronger for every hit mssed???
whoknows but it does seem that u2 does 300… man that has to be the lowest damage ultra in the game.
i was really hoping that it did like 350-400 or so… makes more sense since it has no range just like rufus’ ultra.
simply put the only way to hit this ultra is to combo into it or on wakeup… the gamble on wakeup is nowhere near worth it.
perhaps it IS useful as an AA…
that is the only thing that makes sense at this point.
