The resurgence and possible oversaturation of the fighting game genre

Current Fighting Games Fighting Game Discussion
101

The funny thing is that most of the execution in 3S is much easier than SF4.

-Everyone’s super is a double down forward motion (did anyone complain about dumbing down inputs then?)
-There are very few stupid links to learn in the game
-The hardest combos in the game are probably from Urien, Yun, Makoto, Oro and Ibuki. Now compare that to the high execution characters in SF4.
-Toned down zoning in regards to fireballs.
-The game becomes an MMA match in meaty/okizeme situations.

If you wanna argue in favour of 3S than go for it, but asides from mash DP, auto correct and doing motions from crouch block. SF4’s is a lot more execution heavy.

Oh, and sektr is right. The games factor down to the generations that played the (for the most part). SF2 players didn’t like Alpha. Alpha players didn’t like SF3. SF3 don’t like SF4. I think people liked CvS2 but alot of people called it boring. These are comments I’ve seen from players on ‘here’ over the last couple of years I’ve been here. DHEvil and others can probably confirm that as they have been around way longer.

The thing about the top players is they stop complaining about the games and just play them. I’m trying to adopt that mentality and if there is a game I don’t like it’s not like there isn’t a pool of about 10other games to choose from.

You got there before me.

102

Troll or not, a lot of the newer players feel this way which is a damn shame.

103

It would be so great if Shoryuken in SF5 was a simple forward so SF4 players can bitch about how hard/complicated SF4 was =/.

104

Stop getting trolled over, and over, and over, and over by the SF4 haters.

Every fricking thread gets derailed into a ‘SF4 sucks’ festival by a selection of people who claim to be the majority.

SF4 sucks. Fine. Whatever you guys say.

Now that that’s “unanimously” agreed upon, let’s all look at the title of this thread. Why not try discussing that instead.

105

Supers are not :df::df: (which is in sf4). What the hell are you talking about? I’ve never been able to pull of a super with :df::df: in 3S haha.

And where as there are not many difficult combos. There’s plenty of difficult links to learn. You sound like you don’t know what you’re talking about. Maybe you don’t link jabs in 3S like in sf4. but you must link supers. links such as UOH x Super, Ken’s mp x super. I would really like to see a video of you in a 3S match “hit-confirming” and linking a super from a mp everytime you land a mp on the opponent with super meter. Cos it isn’t easy, especially not online.

If you’re talking about straight up execution complexity. I can’t think of anything in Vipers arsenal, not even sjc supers. which is as difficult as lets say mastering kens kara srk, or Gouki’s kara demon, or Yun’s keeper jin, Makoto’s 100% stun combo. Ibuki is about as difficult as Viper and Ibuki in 3S is not that difficult. And then you have grapplers who can’t depend on auto-block like in SF4. And that’s not including the other execution heavy elemtents of third strike. Such as for example mastering parrying rythyms. good luck vs denjinn ryu if you can’t parry a super.

3S might not look execution heavy on paper. But I know I’ve mastered almost everything (in terms of moves, jab links into specials, fadc combos and all that crap) in SSF4 in about 3/4 months. And I’ve played 3S for much longer (years). And there’s plenty left in 3S which I’m not even close to mastering.

106

Fuck it…

107

This is true. I won’t deny this. But… 3S didn’t dumb down inputs to the point of being able to mash Supers like Raging Demon.

Raging Demon is still :lp: :lp: :r: :lk: :hp: and not “mash all of these buttons at the same time and it’ll still work anyways”.

So what? They’re stil there

I agree with you here. But I guess every SF game HAS to follow in the footsteps of SF2, right?

Capcom took a different approach and they managed to make it work.

If I wanted to play a game that was strictly about fundamentals and fireball traps, then I’d play ST.

Changing super motions to anything else besides :qcf::qcf: or :360::360: would ruin the game.

Changing Chun’s SA2 from :qcf::qcf:+:k: to :l::r::l::r:+:k: simply wouldn’t work because then they would lose their charge time, if they parry. Parrying would be out of the question if they ever wanted to execute Chun’s SA2.

My original intent for posting in this thread was to address the topic at hand. This is in the OP:

to which I replied:

What shoultzula said IS true. S/SF4 lovers just can’t accept that, and so, here we are.

I wasn’t the one who brought up 3S in the first place - Katriana brought it up:

I merely answered the question.

And mIRC brought up the 3S vs SF4 debate, not me.

My whole stance on thing things is:

**The quality of fighting games are deteriorating in exchange for an increased amount of customers who will buy these fighting games, as well as a possible increase in potential tournament players.

Quantity > Quality.**

108

This is why I fucking stopped posting on forums as often as I used to, on SRK in particular, over the past several years. You guys are the most wish washy bunch of tight wad posers this side of the Moon.

It’s as if you WANT the Fighting Game Community to die. You bitch when all we have is 10 year old titles to play, and then companies get the guts to attempt new titles, and you bitch because they weren’t the best game in the (insert series here), and they should have never made it at all, or some shit.

You spend years jacking off to the thought of sequels, and possible match ups between popular franchises. Spending months at a time in shit like MUGEN, just wishing a company would take a stab at your awesome VS game concept, and they DO, and you fucking bitch.

OH LAWD, this game is sooo scrubby! Or whatever the flavor of the month is. Some of you make me sick to the stomach.

Hey, you don’t HAVE to play anything post 1999! You can live in your closet world, where the Sega Saturn And PlayStation are still fighting for that top spot, and you are foaming at the mouth of a BACK LIT Game Boy. The rest of us are gonna be thankful Capcom, or whomever gives a shit about us, to even put time and money into new titles. I could care less about Pokemon Copper and Poop, or Megaman X2Zero 30. You can keep it.

I like SF4. Shit is fun. No matter how hard I tried, I could care less about all the hella deep technical crap, that you dissect in your mega-nerd brains, that keep you from enjoying launching blue energy blasts at one another, and having a good ol time. And no, I’m not a “scrub”. I’ve played many a person over the years in various games online, and I’m decent. I can hang with alot of them. But I don’t look forward to the next SF title, hoping its Super Turbo 2. That’s like, the opposite of what I want.

Kind of off topic, but ON topic. No. The market is not over-saturated with Fighters. I mean, at best 10 games announced/released within 2009-2010, between like, 5 companies? How many fucking shooters come out a year? 20-30? There’s been more Pokemon games in the past several years, than SF in it’s entirety (I think).

Blah blah blah. Get a blog.

109

^That post is delicious.

And so is that Cammy avatar.

110

Dude your wrong. I didn’t even bring up red parry. But everything about 3S is a lot more difficult in terms of execution. Just the basic shit is easier, for example you don’t have 2 or 1 frames to link a bunch of fucking jabs together. But when you get out of beginner stages of the game and start getting into adanced. Everything turns up a notch. You need to start hit confirming supers, Overhead into supers, parrying, kara-throwing. Parrying into supers. And then you want to start red parrying etc. It’s like there’s always something to learn in 3S. I like SSf4, maybe it’s even more “fun” than 3S. I’m not sure, they’re both good. I don’t even play 3S on GGPo anymore. But there’s no way anyone can say SSF4 is more execution heavy. It’s not true.

111

Technically there’s a lot of stuff in SFIV that rarely comes up because supers suck dicks, blockstun sucks, and scaling is hardcore so the gain is minimal. But it could at some point become relevant if the game stays around long enough.

I don’t even know where to begin with the logic that suggests people who don’t like the look of TxSF are the same people making shitty MUGEN mishmashes.

112

Back on track:
Yeah, I think in terms of competitive play there might be an oversaturation of the market. It’s hard for most people to play more than 1 or 2 games at a competitive level. Casually though, most gamers (who are into fighting games) will just buy whatever gives them a good online experience. That said, I’m not yet convinced that SFxT/TxSF will be (serious) tourney-level games.

113

Guitar Hero became oversaturated, I see nothing in the fighting game genre that comes close.

114

That was on the first page. We’re now on the 5th page, and the conversation (as usual) has since degenerated almost entirely into yet another SF4 discussion. Are we REALLY discussing whether ultras reward the loser AGAIN? Are we REALLY discussing reversal windows AGAIN? Is this 2008?

If so, then close this thread, because there’s nothing new to see here that hasn’t been discussed to death.

This thread CLEARLY wasn’t inspired by SF4, but rather the recent flood of fighting games SINCE SF4. Yet, we’re still discussing SF4.

MK9, BB:CS, KOF:XIII, MVC3, SFxT, TxSF…why not discuss THOSE games instead of the same old tired arguments about SF4 that we’ve been suffering through for 2 years?

115

I can’t wait for MK9.

116

Untrue, the point of argument isn’t whether or not more lenient inputs or a wider reversal window make the game easier to pick up ( I’d actually argue that in some cases more lenient inputs are harmful to new players, but not the thread to discuss this ), but whether or not the overall quality of the game is damaged in some significant way by THOSE mechanics. Heck, it’s not even whether or not S/SF4 is a good or bad game, it’s purely in this case whether this “watering down” of certain mechanics in particular is bad for the game.

i.e. I prefer 3S to SSF4 ( it’s close though ), but mainly because I find 3S to have more interesting quirks to the cast (actually that’s a lie, just Urien I’m talking about here <3 Urien) and the execution requirements for the game are much more well implemented and curve more smoothly( easy shit is easy, hard shit is hard. Contrast with SSF4, where I can play a character who’s pretty basic at high level…but cannot function properly without triangle jumping and a 1-frame BnB. )

I do not, though, think SSF4 is inferior because of the revenge meter or because it’s easier to random out a reversal SRK… I would agree that input leniency hurts the game, but wouldn’t directly lump it in with your main assertion, since rather than “being bad because it caters to new players” it’s “being bad because it tries to cater to new players and ends up fucking everyone over” and even THEN, there’s a little bit of mildly interesting combo potential from that system.

Actually the only thing I’d say really falls under your header of “cater to casuals and hurts quality”, which I’m not sure if you’ve even mentioned, is autocorrect. It’s not even remotely gamebreaking though, just obnoxious, especially when you “autocorrect” the wrong way because you expected to not be put in an autocorrect situation and were intentionally trying to do something backwards.

Frankly, I think your biggest problem is hunting down reasons why a system is bad, rather than attempting to find ways to abuse the system at the highest level possible.

And actually my comment on 3s was in response to your comment on the possibility of "HDR"izing 3SOE.

All we need is someone complaining about Sagat.

Get hype.

117

at least the animation is good this time around. :slight_smile:

118

No it really isn’t.

But it’s better when compared to other MK titles.

119

idk, looking at it it just seems like a sped up SF4 to me. and yes, the last gen MKs (as well as that DC…thing) were pretty atrocious with their robotic ass movements. thats kind of why i only really cared to play shaolin monks. even if it wasnt a regular MK it still played better than all of them.

120

Shaolin Monks wasn’t by the usual Midway team (which explains just about everything). It was made by the team who did those X-Men Academy fighters for Activision years ago. Pretty good American attempts at fighters at the time too. They’ve since disbanded.

I am happy there’s a MK coming that’s worth a damn.