i think the intial pages had some good discussions but now we’re already doing a back track cause we have no other voices to be heard. at this point its patting eachother on the back like…"ya know that feminism shit…fuck that " “here here!”
As I’ve always understood it, the idea of a “rape culture” has less to do with convictions in specific cases than it does with a culture that prevents rapes from even becoming cases. Victim-blaming and other forms of stigmatizing rape victims create a climate which discourages rapes from being reported, law-enforcement priorities lead to less and less rape cases being solved, and so on; the idea of a rape culture doesn’t hinge on how many rapists brought to trial are convicted, but on how few rapists are ever brought to trial. Like I was saying about victim-blaming, think about rape compared to other crimes. Society treats rape victims extremely harshly, often more harshly than those accused of raping them; the families of murder victims don’t go through the same accusations and torrents of abuse that most rape victims must endure, and accused murderers are generally not given the same benefit of the doubt in the court of public opinion that those accused of rape so often receive. Do you know the maximum sentence for “date rape”? It’s fifteen years. That is the minimum sentence for possessing four ounces of a “hard drug” in New York. The average rape sentence in the U.S. is eleven years, with 5.4 years of time actually served; that’s only point-four years longer than the mandatory minimum for possessing five grams of crack. Do you know the mandatory minimum sentence for rape? It’s zero years. Yet, someone in this thread suggested a mandatory minimum for false rape accusations. So, basically, rape itself isn’t a serious enough crime to warrant a mandatory minimum sentence, but possession of crack for personal use and false rape accusations are. I don’t know if I’d call that indicative of a “rape culture,” but it’s certainly indicative of a culture which doesn’t really care about rape.
There is no minimum sentencing for rape because it’s one of the most subjective forms of crime possible, due to it being hard to categorize on a flat, predefined scale, as the severity of it and the amount of variables involved are far more than nearly any other crime. As far as I remember, it’s kept as a 0 year minimum sentence (at least in my country), because rape is not something simply conducted by adults. It isn’t always a 20 something X raping a 20 something X, but it might be far younger, when these people have very few concepts on what is right or wrong. Due to this, an eleven year old that has no goddamn idea what the hell these actions mean would get the childrens equivalent of, let’s say, 5 years. You could argue that the kid deserves it, but the court system doesn’t seem to agree.
Additionally, strictly because it has no minimum sentencing doesn’t mean there aren’t general guidelines. I also agree that the sentencing on a false rape accusation should be as severe as the person filing it, but once again it’s a tricky subject. With the way the crime works and how the law works, we’ll put innocent people in jail simply for reporting a crime. However, the repercussions for a person, a girl especially, to get caught out on a false rape accusation is far too weak. Down here, it’s a slap on the wrist and a pretty minor fine at most, whereas if you are caught out on it you are effectively ruined for life, all because some girl was upset with you. Ya’ll need to stop looking at rape in the court system as a black and white thing, even facets of investigation like the FBI admit that it’s fucking HARD to get a perfect ruling system for it. As for THIS horseshit:
You are seriously DELUSIONAL if you think this is the case. I’ve never, ever, EVER in my entire life seen anything coming close to a majority opinion in relation to that viewpoint. You get the odd dickhead going YEH DAT BITCH WANTED IT ANYWAY WHO CAREZ LOL but you are fucking out of this WORLD if you think that rape victims get more flak from the public than rapists do.
Change the gender and the crime and try to keep all the arguments intact- A guy gets so drunk that he can’t move nor understand what’s going on around him, and just laying wasted. Some random dude walks up to him, easily takes his wallet and walks away with 20,000$ in cash.
“Teach them not to steal! Society has a responsibility to keep me 100% safe from others and myself when I use a legal drug that removes my ability to think clearly, function on a basic level and take care of my own well being! (while I keep 20,000$ in my pocket)”
In practical terms, that cannot happen. The first and most dominant person who can keep your ass safe is yourself, and when you choose to put yourself in a vulnerable position like that, bad things can happen to you. Telling women to not get so drunk that they become vulnerable is not something specifically against women’s liberation or some shit but general good advice for everyone. Choosing to get drunk may be legal but it’s still an irresponsible behavior, mostly towards yourself! The fact that criminals exist does not take away personal responsibility from every other person towards his/her own safety.
Do you cry for society to teach strangers not to rape kids or do you teach your kid to not go with strangers who offer candy? Why is it so easy to take the responsible practical approach here but so hard when it comes to personal alcohol consumption?
i’m not reading all this shit but google “Rachel Cassidy” and lol… or hate women more… which ever you prefer 
@Mancub: For one, juvenile sentencing is generally a different matter. That aside, you’re arguing that only adults buy and use drugs, then? To be clear, I’m not supporting mandatory minimums for anything, I’m only arguing that comparing sentencing laws gives an idea of which crimes are, or at least appear to be, taken more seriously in our society. “Date rape,” again, carries a maximum sentence equal to some mandatory minimums for drug possession; lower, in fact, than some mandatory minimums for for manufacture or sale.
I know that there are general guidelines. Again, the average sentence is eleven years, with 5.4 years of actual time served. This is, again, less than or equal to mandatory minimums for non-violent drug offenses. Since rape is already massively underreported, especially by male victims, introducing severe sentencing options will not only put innocent people in prison for simply reporting a crime, but will make even less innocent victims report the crime in the first place, since that is apparently a punishable offense if your rapist has a better attorney or the police botch the case.
Also, come on. Spare me the caps-lock of righteous indignation, kid. Rape victims don’t just face the more-than-occasional “dickhead” screaming that she wanted it because of how she was dressed, they face politicians giving the same message in level tones and politically correct phrasings, the chorus of people implying anything between “it was her fault” and “she deserved it” because of less-than-stellar decisions, the even louder chorus of people accusing her of making the whole thing up, and then the stray voices who figures this is as good an occasion as any to just mention that, just for the record, they hate women. If you change the pronoun, the victim has the added insult of being accused of not only making the whole thing up, but being told it is impossible for him to be raped in the first place. After enduring that sort of public abuse across any media where the trial is mentioned, the victim gets the satisfaction of knowing that if the rapist is convicted, he’ll probably be right back out again in about five years.
@tataki: I don’t think anyone is saying you shouldn’t teach people safety, and it’s disingenuous to argue that teaching your children to behave responsibly and wanting society to do a better job of discouraging rape are mutually exclusive. Nobody takes issue with the idea that people should behave responsibly, they take issue with the fact that people go on at length about how the victim could have behaved more responsibly while the rapist’s culpability goes altogether unmentioned, or gets a cursory sentence of “rape is bad” preceding the paragraph-or-more about how stupid and irresponsible the victim was. In other words, they take issue with those who are vocal and insistent, even dogmatic, about the victims being responsible for their actions, but hardly mention the rapists being responsible for theirs. The intention usually probably isn’t to make it seem like they’re arguing that victim is entirely at fault and the rapist is essentially innocent, but that is certainly how it can come across.
Also, changing the gender leaves the argument entirely intact. A guy gets so drunk he can’t give consent and gets raped, he could have made better decisions, but his rapist is criminal.
You’re seriously delusional, you really need to get your head out of this feminist hug box that you’re stuck in. If you honestly, TRULY believe that victims of rape get more flak than rapists, you are flat out lying through your teeth or are so far gone that you shouldn’t be a regular member of society. Anybody that truly believes the utter tripe that victims get more of a negative reaction than somebody proven of or actually believed to have raped somebody is not a member of the same society as me. People that are accused of rape, whether or not they actually get found guilty or not, no longer have a life. If the woman isn’t found to have orchestrated an elaborate plan to ruin the guys life, he will be treated like he did it anyway. They can’t live like a normal person anymore because they are publicly crucified even if they aren’t found guilty of the crime. This becomes a huge problem because the vindictive bitches that use rape as a revenge trump card are generally younger, about 15-18, which poses a gigantic problem for any dudes that get accused of it. You can’t go to school anymore because you’ll get the shit beaten out of you, you won’t be able to get a job unless you somehow fluke that the job provider never gets the faintest whiff of your legal history and finally you can kiss any hope of positive public attention goodbye.
This is where the distinction between rape and an unfortunate mistake needs to be made, and how the mindset that any drunken person = rape becomes very dangerous. All too often have I heard of two people getting drunk, fucking and then one of them regretting it, which leads to him (usually him, though there have been one or two cases where it was the opposite) getting accused of and usually charged of rape. Couple that with the general opinion that women are often manipulated or incapable of defending themselves/making mistakes, and it makes for a very, very unfortunate combination.
I honestly don’t know where people like you get this idea that society is more critical of women in regards to crime, but it definitely isn’t from anywhere rooted in reality. Hell, just compare any case where a female teacher banged a male student to vice versa, if you think the reaction is of the same scale, I don’t know what to tell ya.
That’s the apex fallacy, just because the top 1% are men, does not mean all men get to enjoy that privilege. you and i do not run jack shit. we have no positions of power, and have zero control. and besides, pretty much every relationship i see today, the women wear the pants in the relationship. so whose really in control? wifey can always threaten to take half and the courts which are sexist always awards the kids to the mother.
as for white people claiming racism, there are black on white hate crimes that happen all the time, especially in the high school where i went to, but its just not politically correct to point that out. i’m asian so i don’t give a fuck about appearing PC. Again, apex fallacy. Of course white privilege exists, but white people are victims of racism as well, often times at the cost of their lives.
Thanks for putting that into words. I gave up on posters who are blinded by their discrimination so I just use pics instead.
It’s funny how “all men are like that” but “not all feminists are like that.”
The reason why these threads always go to shit is because of these white knights and feminists blinded by their hatred and discrimination.
I really don’t see from where some people are getting the idea that this hasn’t been a particularly civil or open discussion.
I actually said they are treated more harshly than those accused of rape. If someone is actually convicted, yeah, they’re often regarded with disdain. It’s all well and good to say that those “actually believed” to have raped someone are viewed with scorn, but that ignores how reluctant some very vocal people are to believe that. Don’t misunderstand me, I think the idea that someone is innocent until proven guilty is one of the most meritorious ideas in our justice system, but that doesn’t mean I care for the cruel turn that idea so often takes with regard to rape cases. Those vicious voices may be a small minority of the population, as you claim, but a small minority that yells loudly enough can drown out a quieter, more reasonable majority.
No positive public attention, huh? So I guess there’s been nothing but public hatred for Ben Roethlisberger, Kobe Bryant, Rand Paul, and Bill Clinton, to pick some names off the top of my head? Did people elect Clinton president out of spite, I guess? Oh, maybe you meant people convicted, not just accused, which is why Mike Tyson is treated with such bilious ire that he guest stars on sitcoms, nowadays. Hang on, I think I understand, now: you mean that even if people are convicted of rape and still accepted in society, it’s only because they were famous in the first place, but that nobody who was unknown prior to their rape conviction could write about being a rapist and become a celebrated author and political figure? That’s probably tru — nevermind, I just remembered that Eldridge Cleaver exists.
Smartassery aside, I will agree that being falsely accused of rape is a truly awful thing to go through, and I don’t really want to debate who is treated worse, since I think the argument will end up going in increasingly asinine and acrimonious circles. Saying victims are treated worse than the accused was a poor choice of words, even with a qualifier, and I should have been more careful. Both are treated terribly, and a provision that those accused remain anonymous until convicted could go a long way towards decreasing hostile attitudes towards those making the accusations.
I agree wholeheartedly, and I think the current discourse of consent trivializes rape as much as or more than just about anything else. People who make mistakes and call them rape not only diminish the horror with which rape is perceived, but discredit those who’ve undergone a horrible tragedy.
I don’t know where you get the idea that I have any such idea. I talked about how society treats rape victims, not how it treats women; I even specifically mentioned that male rape victims are treated even worse. You’re the one making this about gender and/or feminism. I’m just saying that society doesn’t really dedicate a lot of its resources to preventing or punishing rape and tends to treat rape victims considerably worse than it treats victims of other crimes.
I’m watching The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo for the time on Encore and it just happened to be on the beginning of the rape scene. :shake: At least I’m at the revenge segment.
And people weren’t too keen on the black rape comedy used in David So’s video, even though the rape ascept wasn’t that apparent until later. The environment in the video almost lightens the topic greatly.
And it’s about that point and time in the thread.
Are you trying to imply that the thread was derailed?
I am continually mystified with this board’s notions of what it means to be both on- and -off-topic.
shaddap, Taurus. nobody wanna hear dat shit.
The Hilarity of Human Coupling
I’d say more to do with idiots on both sides than one or the other.
Yeah that’s a lot of whining for a girl that claims to be indifferent, and is trying to act the part of a liberated independent woman. She caught some feelings and obviously can’t handle alcohol. So she shouldn’t be drinking and she shouldn’t be having casual sex. Like most women shouldn’t be. I’m not really sure how feminism helps most women, since most women are like that.
As a guy I don’t give a shit if a woman pretends she doesn’t know me after sex. It means there’s no way I get a rape charge against me, that’s for sure. Got to actually make people believe you know the guy to make that claim.
I don’t think most women understand how truly, utterly worthless they are. They are not intelligent, charismatic or anything else they believe they are. They just happen to be soft and warm and it feels good when we stick our cocks in their cunts. And look, there are enough men out there where that’s enough for them to pander to a woman’s every need and constantly pretend they are the most awesome thing in the universe. But most women really aren’t even interested in those types of men. Because they don’t actually respect them, because women don’t even respect themselves because deep down they actually know how useless they are and need a man to put them in their place. They yearn for that, and for a lot of women that manifests itself in rape fantasies. Women tend to be unable to reconcile that with feminist dogma, so like most things they create a theory based on their denial like “rape culture.” It lets them off the hook for their own actions and fantasies, and casts blame on another group, mainly men.
Anyway, it’s mostly American women. Just avoid them, you’re better off. UK, India and Japan are really bad too. Essentially any place with feminism.
no way man ITS ALL MISANDRY
THE WHITE KNIGHTS, MAN
THEY’RE OUT TO GET US
Then again, most men don’t understand how truly, utterly worthless they are, either. I would elaborate, but I really don’t want to ruin the surprise.
The sucks. Your moms awesome.