FUCK finishing shower!!! Capcom is already making too many stupid mistakes with this game. If they’re not gonna do it right and just copy/paste bullshit from TVC then they shouldn’t even fucking bother making this game. I want to play as Morrigan in an HD game with non-shitty controls that has all her useful and cool-looking supers in it, is that really so much to ask?
I was gonna be meaner about shooting this flimsy argument down, but I remembered we’re on SRK and that people like to theory fighter here so I’ll be nice.
The infinite only works on “Doom sized characters”; Doom, Colossus, etc. Morgs damage is already horrible too so damage scaling sets in immediately for the second rep and its much, much below things like IM infinite or ROM. You’d have to it for a very long time for the damage to really be significant.
I say the assist thing because whether you like it or not, despite being a assist heavy game, making individual characters stronger THEN making them more effective via assists is key to becoming stronger in Marvel. There are people like Strider where there place on the tier list is solely decided by who they’re teamed up with but everyone else it refers to singles. You can ask top players, like Potter about this and they will agree. If you build characters solely around assists you will have holes in your game. Its build the individual first and then apply the assists. Its obvious from seeing your post you’ve never really played Morrigan.
You can combo it off a shadow blade in the air combo but all the missiles won’t connect and the damage isn’t worth it for the bar. Yeah, you need the corner I believe, and a baroque off a soul fist to get more hits in.
Here’s the things about Finishing Shower and Soul Eraser:
FS: Slow start-up, but good chip and DHC in/out option. You can also move it up so people will have to block it. I believe it loses to beams though. You can combo off it in some situations. Morrigan has no recovery time after this and you can rush in or set up soul fists.
SE: Slow start-up, bad chip. Variable damage depending on where the opponent is, ranges from moderate to high damage. Instantly full screen when its out like Proton Cannon. Not much initiative afterward due to recovery time. Decent in DHCs depending on whether you hit with it our not, otherwise I’d switch out with Shadow blade super.
I’ll admit that you’re right on hindsight. Would still be cool though if she could (and be even better if it somehow made her broken).
It’s VS, low/low-mid in that game is better than low/low-mid in just about any other fighter save maybe VF.
Yes, this is why characters like Cable (who relies on assists/AAA to cover big holes in his game) suck.
OH WAIT
Comparing Finishing Shower and Soul Eraser is like comparing War Machine’s Proton Cannon to Iron Man’s. Let me help you out here:
- beam supers with instant startup and a lot of hits are a Good Thing in Marvel games (particularly in DHCs)
- beam supers that hit both the opponent and their assist are a big deal in games with good assists (note: not TVC)
This game is obviously well on it’s way to TVC2: This Time It’s Marvel! so I’m starting to lose interest in discussing it.
First off, I know you know your Marvel and Soul Eraser is not instant start-up. I hope you’re not suggesting that its something you can just pull out whenever you want.
Second, with your Cable example there are two things you’re not getting with what I said. First off, we’re talking about Morrigan. Who does not have Hyper Vipers, Vipers, Gernades, and HP that functions as a projectile and can be canceled into a special. All topped off with an Uppercut that is actually pretty effective and can be canceled into his Hyper Viper! Why you brought up a god tier character is beyond me. Second, even using your example my point still stands because as good as Cable is, he becomes even better when played by a good player and then his effectiveness rises even more with good assists. Its all layers. See also: Mags w/Psylocke, Sent with CapCom, etc. They do well enough on their own but the assists make them even more dangerous.
And besides the fact both supers in the examples differ with a beam and the other with missiles its not the same. Morrigans SE does damage depending on how far the opponent is from them; I’m not sure why it works like that but it does. Its like 3/4 screen for maximum effectiveness. Anyway, we are pretty much in agreement here the number of hits wasn’t my point. I simply contrasted the two supers and that its not redundant to have both. One is better for DHC and screen control, as when you DHC in/out the missiles continue to come out (very useful). If its blocked its also very safe and in fact gives Morg the initiative. SE does more and has the advantage of being a beam but you can jump over it outside of set-ups and its very unsafe if its blocked; she just sits there. In fact I’ve been punished by people who tech rolled after getting hit and ended up behind me as I was still in recovery frames.
Same, I like both games separately. Marvel should stay marvel and TvC should stay TvC. Sadly, the developers disagree and that’s why even though I’ll try it when I get the chance I’ve been pessimistic about this title from the start. And the news rolling in is not sounding good.
Yes, I know that, in exactly the same sense that I know that Proton Cannon is not instant startup. However, I think you get the point, particularly when the term “DHC” was also involved.
Because your point was that good characters don’t rely on assists. One of the best characters relying heavily on assists is a pretty effective counterexample.
Just to clarify: Cable, a god tier character, beats how many characters in 1-on-1?
Disparaging an MVC2 character because they “rely on assists” is beyond absurd. The game revolves around assists.
Here’s another (much simpler) contrast:
One of them is good for a Marvel game. The other is not.
You don’t get it do you? Cable is trash without assists, there’s a ton of crappy characters who destroy him unless he has an assist to cover him. Also, soul eraser doesn’t have instant startup, he made that clear. When soul eraser comes out it fills the entire screen instantly like proton cannon. Morrigan would easily be able to get in on cable and mix him up unless cable could pushblock and call commando or drones. That’s why you can’t base a character’s effectiveness on their own abilities unless you take into account the game’s system.
what the fuck is anyone arguing about. that missle shower shit is fucking trash, period. there is no fucking argument for that shit at all. soul eraser is just fine, and morrigan is not bad in mvc2 at all. go read mixups post on her in the marvel section. if your execution is good, morrigan is tops for her tier department easy. tvc and mvc2 versions of morrigan just require more then what people want to put into a character like her, point blank. i played og tvc morrigan for a bit when the game first dropped, and it just wasnt worth the time to master her instant overheads and shit.
this game. jesus christ. no words man. seriously, that dumb ass fucking super over soul eraser. she better have some type of new move to trap niggaz so all that shit connects or something. sorta like mags hyper grav. but fucking why though. soul eraser was just fine, and i cant see that missle shower shit being worth anymore of a shit then it fucking is now. worthless ass super. ha ha
Yes, but a lot of people’s Supers become instant start-up when involved with DHC so I don’t see your point there. Storm’s hail becomes instant. Ryu Shikuu becomes instant. I already knew the point but from your wording you made it sound like it without use of DHC.
And no, it wasn’t my point that good characters rely on assists (I just flat out said they did not in my last post so I don’t see the confusion). You are reading what you want to read apparently.
Again, I didn’t “disparage” characters for relying on assists but it is fact that playing a character on their own merits and then improving them further with assists is best.
We don’t know if Finishing Shower would be good for Marvel 3 or not as we don’t the extent of the system. It wouldn’t be good in Marvel 2, but I never spoke of it being good there. And yeah Cable loses pretty hard without assist help, but that wasn’t my point.
You guys first complain the game is turning out not like Marvel but then you argue what moves wouldn’t work in its system. Than you say its turning out like TvC but then argue the move in TvC wouldn’t work here? Wha?
That’s correct; your point was that they DON’T rely on assists:
This statement is clearly false; Cable gets rushed down without assists but is godlike with them.
Are you even reading the posts? Its pretty clear you’re arguing just to argue now and I’ve lost interest in that.
On topic, my original point was that in this new system I’m hoping its possible that both Finishing Shower and Soul Eraser can be put in together (quality of the game non-withstanding) as they both could have their uses. We’ll have to wait for some footage and more gameplay info, though.
I hope so also if they do they need to get rid of that drill. since they seem to be sporting the tvc way characters might only have 3 supers, 2 reg and 1 level 3. Also like you said tvc morrigan is better than any other vs game morrigan even cvs morrigan. Also would it kill them to give morrigan some ryu defense at least
I play Mag/Psy against a bunch of Cable based teams and when it comes down to Psylocke vs Cable, Cable can’t really stop Psylocke as long as you know your block strings. Plus Cable needs meter.
LOL at Tech Romancer changing the subject when he’s proven wrong.
She better have lasers unless her missile shower is extremely fast and start up can be removed via DHC like hail storm.
lol @ you not knowing what you’re talking about. What’s funny is the last points that were brought up I had agreed with (and weren’t even really what I was trying to discuss) which is why I’m not bothering. I don’t argue for the sake of arguing.
On a different note. How would it affect her if her Soul Fists acted like their ES versions from the Vampire series (since that what they look like anyway) and did multiple hits (say, at least 3) and were allowed to absorb a couple of hits from beams before being negated/destroyed?
for the record i hate finishing shower. its nice that you can aim it up or down, but its really not as good as soul eraser. maybe the properties will be changed so itll be decent against assists.
ANYWAYS…
I hope they keep the crazy arc of her air-dash, because it made for some interesting hi-lo mixups and ambiguous cross-ups with Tron assist backing her up. Real talk, I think she had a better 8-way dash than Storm lol.
As for things they can do to buff her…she definitely needs better air normals. Actually, all her normals in general were all pretty shitty (df. hp was decent I guess for a launcher). Capcom will probably give every character some sort of option to combo into super this time around, so no need to worry about that.
These thread titles suck balls.
Should’ve been “I do you during your sleep - The Morrigan Thread”
Cuz you know, she’s a Succubus.
or maybe
"she sucks the best! :pleased: - low tier Morrigan thread :bluu:"
Characters in MVC2 got more than 1 super. Why get mad over Finishing Shower?