The Penultimate: an X-23 Compilation Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
721

Just an additional thought on X23/Vergil/Ammy. I ran the team for a long time and the synergy is very good, especially if you’re not afraid to play match-ups and switch up the point character. X23 is arguably the best OTG assist in the game for Vergil because she can pick up multiple characters for him without wasting resources (ground/wall bounces) and X23/Ammy THC is almost a guaranteed kill with X-Factor still available. The only real issue is getting in, because Rapid Slash isn’t a “real” horizontal assist against strong zoning teams. That’s why you have to be a bit loose with the point character, Vergil has a lot less trouble in those match-ups.

PS: learn the timing to DHC from Vergil Dimension Slash Hyper into Weapon X Prime, it’s far more reliable and powerful that way

722

I’m finding that x23/v/ammy get zoned by PB. Wolvie/PB is a rough ride I don’t like taking…

What’s a good PB counter?

Edit:
Question for you lab monsters:
is it possible to do use the down j.H (talon strike/claw?) and cancel the landing frames into the MFH to avoid landing into neutral during a tac infinite? I’m trying to see if I can make a tac infinite with x23 (obviously), but in my theme of x23/ammy bff I’m starting the infinite during slow so that I can time things better. I swear I got it, but I’m not an execution specialist…

723

I don’t think so, dH has recovery frames and it’s considered an air command normal so I don’t think you can cancel directly into ground specials.

724

The counter for Plasma Beam is, as always, jump over it when it’s called (for x23, walljump over it is good sometimes as well). When their assist is on cooldown, call your own - whoever is forced to block the assist loses.

If you wanna just avoid the chip (and maybe catch them unaware), you can cr.H under the beam.

Against a patient wolv/beam player, it’s gonna be tough out-gunning that assist with just Ammy, though. Take calculated risks, try to lock them down - once you’re on top of them, doom shouldn’t have any space to come out anymore.

725

Alternatively, find room to tag in Ammy. Ammy beats Wolvie/Beam pretty free imo. She doesn’t ever have to block plasma beam and can hit wolverine out of damn near anything he does. If they’re dive kicking a lot, punish it with reflector.

726

So ran into a badass situation in a match this weekend. On WXP punishes, you can cancel into Mad Hopper and hard tag back into X23 into a full combo. It looks sick as fuck…

Also, I’m doing some major work on incoming guard Break/OS mixups. Hopefully I’ll have something nice to show in a week or 2.

727

90% of my incoming:

  • Call assist
  • Superjump, ambiguous L-Talon crossup
  • Dash as you hit/block confirm

Did it hit? Combo.
Did they pushblock? Go for a d.H/throw OS (guard break), or ambiguous feint crossup (use L or M version), or high/lo/throw mixup with H-feint.
Did they block? Apply pressure (with d.H, if you like, lol).

Loses to:

  • Invincible incoming
  • X-factor guard cancel throw

When I think they wanna guard cancel me:

  • Call assist
  • j.LM -delay- (toward)H, (toward)d.H
  • Dash as you hit/block confirm

Did it hit? Combo.
Did they pushblock? Apply pressure.
Did they x-factor? If they popped it on j.L or j.M you’ll throw them. If they popped it on j.H or d.H, the assist should cover you.

Loses to:

  • Invincible incoming

When they’re lacking in incoming options:

  • Call assist
  • 50/50 M-feint, or M-feint, dash back
728

You can space the TA L so that it clips right at their feet and you aren’t actually in throw range so it’s not possible to XF Throw it.

Right now my setup is looking something like this.

Snap/Kill > Meaty j.TA L (as low on their hitbox as possible.)

Hit: Combo
Pushblock: Guard Break Grab
Block setup 1 (for air mobile characters): Dash + RB OS grab (to catch up-backs and keep people blocking if they stay on the ground), both options should put them on ground blocking RB, MF H late S > Fuzzy 50/50.
Block setup 2 (for normal characters): command grab + RB, go for jump dH throw OS against up-back attempts > Fuzzy

I’m trying to find optimal timing/spacing so you get the fastest fuzzy attempt as possible. I think there might be something like throw tech into assist > TA M>S to start the fuzzy but I’m not sure if it actually saves that much time compared to the Land > MF H optinos.

My mixup setup with log is:
Dash into corner > call log > Dash back MF L/M > optional uncross. (Log starts right above where it’s called so it will catch a lot of air mobility options as well.) This works even better midscreen since the spacing is much more ambiguous.

729

Is that a rule only for x23, I’m pretty sure that vergil cancels his dH into specials.

I don’t think I’ve contributed anything yet so here are 2 of my command throw setups featuring ammy.

Set up:
After a combo into the corner, end it with dive kick L. move on to mix up 1 or 2…

Mix up 1:
Dash back using the two button command for proper spacing. At the end of the dash call ammy while crouching (first part of this mix up). Go from crouch ammy call to MF-M. Depending on if you waited until your back dash stopped or you stopped slightly early will determine if you cross up or not. Even if your opponent neutral techs, ammy’s first ice block should hit meaty preventing a throw punish. If they roll back you will have already crossed them up and you will be in the corner allowing you to decide whether you want to jump out of the corner or jump straight up and stay in the corner (too quick to react to).

Back to the MF-M part, if you choose not to cross up, you tatsu select MF-H immediately after MF-M. If your opponent neutral techs or back rolls
they have to stand block your high while eating coldstar. This lets you fuzzy j.M into j.dH or you can just hit low. If the opponent rolls out you get the command grab gimmick.

The weakness is the roll out of the corner because of the ability to mash out of the command grab. Since most people will roll out first, use the upper set up first to show them that they have to mash out. Then move on to Mix up 2…

Mix up 2:
Dash back using the two button command for proper spacing. At the end of the dash call ammy while crouching (this is to fake the first mix up). Go from crouch ammy call to MF-L. Dash back (so your opponent doesn’t cross you under) and immediately cancel the back dash into the command grab. You have to teach yourself the timing for the command grab, you have to charge just a little. You know you have it correct when you go to training, perform the mix up and you get a four hit combo for the first part of the command grab. They should not be able to jab you out because your command grab pushes them into the coldstar as the grab become active. This uses the glitch where you can grab someone in block stun (no jumping out allowed) and for some reason you grab them if cold star hits them. YOU are doing it wrong if they get to block. The closest thing to a counter should be that they jab you, you roll, and continue the combo off of coldstar. If they do block you have enough time to MF-H to force a stand using j.H landing then doing a fuzzy j.M or a simple c.L.

Doing this mix up forces your opponent to stay in the corner instead of giving you free command throws. Once they refuse to roll out of the corner, go back to Mix up 1 for stronger corner mix ups.

730

I’m pretty sure vergil gets to break the rules for no reason other than he’s vergil. It’s possible X23 might technically be able to cancel into her S (and I’m not even sure about that), but vergil gets to cancel his S into his H.

731

He does get to play by a different set. Just so we are clear, I meant his helmbreaker when I wrote dH, but that doesn’t take away fro your point that vergil does what he wants…

732

We were both talking about Helm Breaker. He can cancel that into his S…

733

Is it common knowledge that every wakes up into standing neutral? I just figured that out like two days ago… If it is common knowledge, I think it should be mentioned in OP anyway. I think it is important enough because that offers her one of her few chances to instant overhead with j.M.

734

Nice stuff Fink, here’s what I do with Ammy assist, some of it’s really basic and most people probably know about it, but I’ll go ahead and just list everything for the sake of having it all down.

BnB Mixup:
Crouching Light + Cold Star -> Crouching Light -> Crouching Light -> Crouching Light -> …

Simple idea; the goal is to just cover Cold Star’s activations with lights so they’re forced to block it. Once they’re in blockstun you’re free to 50/50 them with Mirage Feint Cancel mixups or even go for Fuzzy Guards if you’re feeling brave. Downside to this is occasionally people will just pushblock you away and escape, but X-23’s anti-pushblock game is so powerful that that’s not too hard to persuade them not to do. Something as basic as just staggering your crouching lights will teach them not to do it. A friend of mine once said that if you ever get someone to block Cold Star, it should be a kill every time. Words to live by.

Incoming Mixup 1:
Death or Snapback -> Dash back -> Cold Star -> Mirage Feint M

Another basic mixup. Depending on how far you dash back and when you do the Feint it can be really ambiguous as to what side to block. If they get hit I suggest going for either a TAC or a TAC bait reset because Cold Star will scale the damage horrendously and you’ll almost never get a kill off of it otherwise. If they block it just mix them up like you would with the BnB. The downside to this is that anyone with an airdash or any kind of aerial mobility can just get out of this for free, but that can be taken care of with other variations.

Incoming Mixup 2
Death or Snapback -> Dash back -> Cold Star -> Super Jump Forward -> Talon Attack H -> Falling Claw

Another really ambiguous setup where the hit depends on when you super jump out of the backdash. I like doing this against characters that have some air mobility, but not airdashes. It’s also a lot safer to do against characters who can come down with moves like Helm Breaker and Footdive. Same things apply as the first one, if you get the hit go for a reset off of TACs. If they bock, mixup time. Downside to this is, again, some characters can airdash out of it, and unlike the last mixup you can also get airthrown. So anyone with a long airthrow animation will just completely bypass Cold Star.

Incoming Mixup 3
Death or Snapback -> Meaty J.L + Cold Star -> J.M -> J.Talon Attack L

This is the no bullshit setup because as far as I know nothing will beat a meaty J.L on incoming other than Harddrive and Morrigan’s level 3. It stuffs Foot Dives, it stuffs Helm Breakers, it stuffs whatever. The goal if this is to just force them to block Cold Star and fall to the ground where you then apply the standard mixups. If they do get hit by the J.L you can go into whatever setup you like off of it, they’ll fall into Cold Star so again I suggest TAC or TAC bait resets. This is pretty much an all purpose setup and will always give you a chance to run shenanigans. I guess they could X-Factor guard cancel through and grab you, but I wouldn’t worry about that too much. Just X-Factor back and kill them meterlessly, then Dirt Nap the third character. If they want to encourage you to use Dark Laura that’s on them. The only downfall to this is that it’s just one mixup opportunity as opposed to the two you get with the above. But at least it’s more reliable.

THC Mixup

Self-explanatory. X-23 can’t take advantage of the THC as well as Doom or Strange can, but you can still do it. Pop the THC, wait for Rage Trigger to end, dash over and Mirage Feint. Chances are they’ll get hit by it since it’s really hard to see where X-23 is going. I don’t go to this option a whole lot so I don’t actually know if it’s possible to keep them standing by doing Mirage Feint cancels into Talon Attacks, but if not then you just need to OTG and pop X-Factor to pick them up after the lighting knocks them down. It’s meter heavy and uses your X-Factor so it’s an expensive option, but it’s got its uses. I use it in those odd situations where my Dr. Strange is dead but my X-23 is still alive and they’re down to their anchor. By doing this you get at least one chance to avoid dealing with an XF3 character.

Slow shenanigans
Weapon X Prime -> Veil of Mist -> Raw tag -> Combo

Basically anytime you land a raw WXP and have Ammy behind her, you can go into a slowdown and then, if timed right, raw tag back to X-23. She’ll hit them as she comes in and that will give you enough time to continue the combo. The damage you get won’t be spectacular but it’ll be more than what you would’ve gotten. Alternatively you can just do a slow combo as Ammy using Lightning Edge and get the same (More?) daage, but I like the hard tag combo because it gets X-23 back in.

I think that’s pretty much all I do. Basically just anyway you can get someone to block puts you in a great position. Also if you play a second character who doesn’t have an infinite, it’s worth finding a way to TAC through them directly to Ammy and going into her infinite to hopefully set up a double dirt nap.

735

Here’s some ground throw stuff (x/ammy as usual):

First you have to know how far she the throws. The taller the character she is on, the farther away she lands from them.

For forward throws:
When you hit the floor, call ammy. Immediately do MF-M. This is the tricky part. (In order to get the perfect distance to catch back techs and neutral techs, you must time the next part in a way that you only have moved about 1 to 1.5 x23 character spaces away.) After you have moved that short distance in MF-M cancel into her horizontal dive kick. From this point you have to react but it’s pretty easy compared to the rest of the lockdown. If they neutral tech and you spaced correctly, you will be able to j.dH (talon dive I think) in cross up. If they back teched, than you can stick out a j.M MEATY!!! Or if you are scared you can stick out a couple of j.Ls.

If performed correctly, neutral techs eat the first CS ice block meaty, keeping opponents in block stun for the j.dH. It is not a true blockstring, but mashing doesn’t help (unless it’s like a bionic arm or something, but you know that so…). Depending on how you timed it, their assist call either eats CS or your (talon dive?). Since you always cross up, you can dash push them into the CS or whatever mix up you like.

Back techs will have to deal with a high to low mix up of your choosing. j.M reaches far enough to hit meaty and you can perform two before you land. Also you are in distance for a c.L which makes this mix up very dangerous. The danger comes from the fact that they have to push block you in order not to have to guess, but you can easily dash in and throw them for free (pushblock guard break). This is retarded because ammy resets and lets you do the same lock down again from the next throw. Lol, it’s free perpetual damage, if they continue to push block…

Forward techs roll right into CS so do whatever…

Notes*** As I mentioned earlier since the taller characters are farther from you, the set ups have to be adjusted for the distance. I like to s.M as soon as I land in order to move x23 slightly closer for my ammy call and MF-M. You can use whatever move you like. To see the distance and time x23 moves when she attacks, set your training dummy to super jump, then when you can’t see x but you can see her arrow, hit buttons to she how far she moves for how long. From there just pick your button and adjust your set up…

Oh, and for shorter characters, you land not only closer, but you have a little more time, if you throw the coon or joe, take a step back than do the set up…

For back throws:
The same thing as forward throws except for one thing, you have more time to do the above set up. That means you need to know the time to delay. I like to use the s.H because if I throw a tall character, I can call ammy and cancel into the MF-M while her hit box is forward, but if I threw a regular sized character, I can wait towards the end of the kick when her hit box is closer to where it was in the first place. As for the mini’s just wait for the kick to finish…

736

Trying to learn this character and I’m wondering if theres a page or video where I can learn general strategy beginner combos and mix-ups

737

Another x/ammy mix up:

As usual, end a combo in the corner with the L dive kick. MF-M into the corner. Call ammy and jump into the corner. Your opponent cannot roll into the corner so no matter what they will be in front of you. Now you can do a couple of things from here…

option 1: you can j.dH into L dive kick… This guarantees all techs block cold star and give you at least one mix up.

option 2: you wall jump on reaction to their tech. If they roll towards the corner or neutral tech, a quick wall jump into j.dH will keep you on the same side, a slight delay between the wall jump and j.dH will cross up. With practice you can make this ambiguous. If they roll out, which they probably will, the wall jump gives you a free jump in and the chance to fuzzy a j.M.

option 3: you can fake the jump by doing j.dH. Once you have faked you can CS their throw attempt or MFM xx L Dive Kick for a mix up. If they roll out of the corner, the MFM xx L Dive kick becomes an option select that won’t dive leaving you to cross them up with CS. And there’s always old reliable, the meaty low attack, I prefer c.M myself…

738

For some reason, you can grab someone out of their throw tech if you use ammy slow or if you are xf’d but you cannot throw them if you are both xf’d and in the middle of ammy slow for some reason. Weird…
edit
I was wrong, timing is just different.

739

yeah, it’s an interesting facet of the game system. X23 doesn’t use it as well as, say, wolverine, though, who can do it when berserk.

Not that I plan on playing ammy anytime soon, but does slow allow you to combo off of groundthrows midscreen?

740

yes and no, the super is so short that if you don’t grab asap after you tag her in, you’ll run out of super during the recovery of your ankle slicer. If you have set ups (I have a couple that I’ll put out when I solidify them) you can grab fast enough to solo combos off of grabs. (edit: this is back throw only)

I’m not working on this right now, I’m trying to work on getting x23 to infinite in all directions using the slow super as a starter.

Also, does logan have the same issue where he cannot grab you out of throw tech recovery if he has xf and speed up or ammy slow down activated at the same time?