Anyone else following SBO? Sounds like Kubo got lit up every time Vergil died. I’m interested in seeing how he made it to grand finals.
Couldn’t watch SBO, but I just heard Wong sparked Kubo with the quickness in grand finals. Overall, X-23 came 2nd at SBO, that’s a pretty good result! And I’m not surprised about Kubo running into trouble every time Vergil died, his team pretty much folds once he loses Vergil since X-23 with Jam Session alone doesn’t cut it, and he simply hasn’t put in the work with X-23.
Need a bit of help please. After connecting Silent Kill high up in the air in the corner, is there a way to juggle off it assistless? There must be right?
I’ve been trying to, but I don’t think it’s possible. Her falling speed decreases after a while, meaning she and the opponent land much closer in time. If it’s possible, it’ll be a very tight, invisible dashing st.L or M link with awkward timing. But that does seem like a cool idea for hard to escape resets, with Hidden Missiles or something to cover forward techs.
In a related note, managed to hit 993 990 damage with X-23 solo and no X-Factor. I’m just sure she can break the million, but seems like it’s impossible for her to get more than that. Against a grounded, cornered opponent:
Spoiler
(charged) :qcf::l: xx :qcb::atk::atk:, :s:, dash :l::h: xx :qcb::h:, j. :dp::l: xx :qcf::l:, land, :dp::l: xx :qcf::l:, :h::s:, sj.:h::d::h: xx :dp::h: xx :qcf::l:, :qcf:
(OTG), :qcf::atk::atk:
Getting setups for Silent Kill on grounded opponents seem easy. Just call an assist and stay close. For example:
cr.:h:+Plasma Beam xx (uncharged) :qcf::l: xx :qcb::atk::atk: leads to a 900k solo combo both on hit or block in the corner, which is pretty cool in theory, though it needs a little more than 3 meters to work. Works with several assists, too.
Yeah, it’s just kind of a bittersweet thing. On one hand he got X-23 exposure and that’s awesome, on the other hand I think it’s the wrong kind of exposure since all the work was done with Vergil and all Laura was there for was Silent Kill. Kind of makes it look like she’s a glorified assist character and I’m not ready to believe that’s the only way she can be effective just yet.
Darn, thanks anyway! And I’ll have to remember that solo Silent Kill as well, need to maximise damage whenever possible.
This is how I feel too. What you stated is exactly what people believe X-23 is: a glorified assist/gimmick char that you can dump on your team and rely on XF+Silent Kill to win your matches. I honestly feel it’s a waste of X-23’s potential to solely focus on XF+Silent Kill and play her like a bait Wolverine, and not utilise her other options and advanced techniques, as well as her point play backed up with a full set of assists. Running the XF game’s definitely great, but people just slap her on their team for that alone, and that’s literally their entire gameplan with her. They can’t do anything else with the char aside from that and they get eaten up for it.
EDIT: Saw the Kubo vs Wong match on Youtube, don’t think I’m allowed to link it(I know mods on here usually crack down on free SBO vids) but you’re not missing anything really, Wong OCV’d him twice in record breaking time.
Wong’s Wolverine is just insane to block once he gets going. I wonder if Kubo was thinking about XF guard cancelling a divekick so that he could get Laura going, but in actuality he never had a chance to on that first match. But anyway, props to him reppin’ Laura again.
The worst part is that the more this mindset spreads, the less we’ll have people seriously studying her as a character. I feel like every time I sit down in training mode for more than a few hours I find some completely new mixup, setup, or ways to deal with problem characters and it’s a shame there’s only so many of us experiencing that. I just saw the match myself and Kubo definitely seemed flustered when he was forced to play with X-23. When he started doing desperation Talon Attacks and randomly Falling Clawed into JWong’s Akuma mixup it was pretty clear he just wasn’t prepared to play Laura’s neutral game. I’m sure I’d get blown up by Justin too, but I don’t think that match needs to be free for Wolverine/Akuma either.
I definitely agree that it’s not a desirable mindset if people want to achieve more with the character. Basic stuff is effective in Marvel 3, but it only takes you so far, especially with X-23, who relies on advanced stuff to cover up the holes in her offence and make her more effective as a whole. Otherwise, she’s pretty gimped.
One important thing that Deviljin put in his tutorial vid is learning how to chain assists fluidly during your offence. Any assistless string should be either covered up with MFCs or Mirage Feint L(handy for pushing against advancing guard), and whenever your assists are available, attack with them simultaneously and go for left-rights or whatever you want. Your left-right+assist gets blocked, you can go for another left-right with Mirage Feint M+Talon L or other mix-ups. That gets blocked, your next assist should be available and you repeat. During offence, always keep track of your assists’ availability. If done right, X-23 becomes extremely difficult to shake off and defend against and it makes the opponent feel like they’re in an onslaught of assisted offence and safe pressure. In the corner, it gets extra bad for the opponent because they’re more subject to corner pressure/“fuzzy” overheads and so on.
Here’s a dumb question lol: do you think it’s worth burning (level 1 XF) to kill two chars guaranteed(depending on their health values) when using X-23 on point?
I think it’s worth it depending on the situation. like if you had near three bars for the incoming mix up
Absolutely, I’m a big fan of early X-Factors to gain the momentum and positioning. The third character still has to deal with an incoming mixup and the more I experiment the more I think she’s got some of the best incoming mixups in the game. Even if they successfully block it, you’ve still got them in the corner and I have all the confidence in the world in Laura’s corner game to get the job done.
The only time I wouldn’t do it is if Phoenix was the anchor, and MAYBE Vergil. I sort of like X-23 vs. Vergil so I’m not sure if he’s a big enough problem yet to warrant that much caution.
Any character, any team, if you get a HBD, kill them both at all costs.
Here’s what I heard fanatiq say which I pretty much agree with: your level 1 x-factor is not going to save you against their lvl3 xf anchor, so go ahead and use your lvl1 xfactor to kill the second character. You should end up with enough xf time to kill off of one touch after a strong incoming mixup, and if not, you’ll have a sizeable life lead to run away/run out XF time against a single assistless character.
This applies vs. Phoenix as well, since killing both characters will get Phoenix to maybe 3 bars, 4 at most, with which you’ll still be able to comfortably kill her before she gets to 5. Unless for some reason you’ve gotten lit up early in the match, or didn’t block a down exchange or something.
Some characters with XF2+assist are more dangerous than solo XF3 anchor. X23 has been blessed with killing two characters for free, and ideally you’d think that alone would skyrocket her atop the tiers but sadly she’s only seen to be utilized one way: Dirt nap or bust.
Until X23 wins a major at point this way of thinking will stand strong. And, with the way this game is going, X23 is in trouble lol. But there’s hope at least, some will disagree but I think TAC infinites will get to the point where they become practical and common. We know that there’s more to character than dirt nap but in a perfect world everybody will be using X23 and we will have more jailbait discussions lmao.
Thanks guys, the reason why I said it was a dumb question was because I was doubting whether it was worth doing or not(TAC infinites and whatnot.) But you guys have given me validation lol.
Basically, in Ultimate, you can do something similar to this, using Dante/Akuma(other combinations probably exist): [details=Spoiler][media=youtube]DB6fxvvxPOk[/media][/details] (skip to 1:30 please.)
Hit the opponent with a combo, XFC in the middle of it, kill their char and gain 3 bars. Next char comes in, Silent Kill that char and kill them. Jam Session still relaunches in XF as well in Ultimate.
With Dante/Akuma, the max damage you can do before you gain 3 bars is 1.067mil. Against characters with less health, you have to weaken your combo to gain the meter you need. So, after a Jam Session+Silent Kill, you can relaunch with Akuma’s Tatsu for an extended combo and build the meter you need to kill the opponent, and because you have a bit of XF left, Silent Kill will do extra damage.
However, there are variables depending on whether they decide to take your Silent Kill set up or block it.
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If they block your lockdown assist, Silent Kill will hit and hitstun deterioration doesn’t kick in as much. This means you can relaunch with Akuma’s Tatsu, then Crescent Scythe>Talon L before doing M(1hit)HS and ending with a j.H>Hard Crescent Scythe. The combined chip from Jam Session, plus the combo will be enough to hit 900K to 1.mil. But…
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If they get hit by your Jam Session, you cannot extend the combo, hitstun deterioration kicks in too hard.
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You can opt to do a meaty TK’d Talon H on the incoming character. If done correctly, they can’t escape unless they have a fast invincible air hyper. Your extension options are the same as 1) with the extra benefit of having two assists to increase the damage.
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If they get hit by the Talon H, you cannot do a Crescent Scythe>Talon L after Ankle Slice>Tatsu before launching, you have to use MHS. You’ll do 1.mil damage.
I can’t remember the Ultimate combos right now lol, sorry! I’ll be sure to post them here when I do remember.
EDIT: Um, my bad, you can 1.1mil and beyond depending on the XF combo you’re using.
Have you experimented much with assistless Dirt Nap setups? I’ve had total success with just doing a meaty Talon Attack L during their first frame of activity as they’re coming in. They can try to blow X-Factor and throw you, but that’s easy enough to counter if you expect it, and it would solve your hitstun problem.
Yup, if I meaty Talon Attack H them(they can’t do anything about it really unless they’ve got an invincible quick air hyper), that gives me more leeway hitstun-wise. Against some chars, I can add on CS>Talon L before launching and others I can’t, due to the way Tatsu hits.
I’ve started doing H-Feint, H-CS as my corner Dirt nap setup. Easier to input than a TK scythe, harder to counter than a Talon attack. A few people have actually successfully gotten me with x-factor, airthrow, so I stopped using that one as often. I still have trouble with midscreen dirt nap though… actually lost my losers finals match recently due to it, lol.
Some info compiled: http://neoempire.com/forum/showthread.php?p=460161
Feel free to use/correct anything in that thread!
Neat stuff so far. Little correction maybe - it mentions that uncharged neck slice can’t be followed up for a combo. This isn’t entirely true - if it hits from maximum range, it can be followed with s.M or c.M into whatever. Could be a bit iffy on some characters though.
Also, ground backthrow can be comboed in the corner
Awesome, thanks! Gonna update it later with the corrections, then the combos, and clean stuff up. Not looking forward to typing out the combos and assist extensions…