Damn. I was hoping she was like Firebrand, Frank, Wesker, Cap, and a few others who have gotten frame data leaked somewhere online. I really gotta get the guide, considering how much I study the game.
New-ish application for old-new tech:
So, we’re all in agreement that Merkyl’s anti-SJ combo is great, but kinda hard to apply due to finnicky spacing, yeah? Well, can anyone think of any situations at SJ height where you can actually control exactly where the opponent is? That’s right: **Resets. **Specifically, an anti-TAC counter reset that our evo champ FChamp has been abusing of late.
Here’s the idea: do your BnB combo up to whatever you use to relaunch (hopefully it does at least 450k, and carries to the corner). Instead of ending in H-CS xx L-talon, do this: sj.L, very short delay, sj.H, d.H
If you timed it correctly, the sj,H will hit meaty, and catch both forward and backward tech. From there, you can hitconfirm into the Merkyl’s SJ carry combo (do not do the M-Talon without hitconfirming, lol). Your assist will be ready by the time you get the next hard knockdown, and your super finisher should be enough to get the kill.
Optimal situation for this is having a character in second that has a known TAC infinite. Even if you don’t use the infinite, usual risk-reward means the opponent should be trying to counter the TAC.
If they’re not falling for this reset, this either means they’ve seen it before, got godlike reactions, or simply isn’t trying to counter a TAC. In that case, you should go ahead do a TAC to show that you will, or you can go a throw after sj.L instead.
I’m thinking these kinds of resets might be important in the long run, because as ambiguous as X-23s ground based resets can be, there’s not much you can do against neutral-stand BIONIC ARM, dhc-ed into a safe super. Resetting at SJ height lets you avoid most of those pesky assists as well (Dante might be an exception…)
we really need play online or something =p
Lol. Way to steal my thunder Jaytoo! I was gonna do a vid of this. >.>
I don’t think this is as good as some of the other character’s (eg Mags) but it’s still really good. I’ve been working on this and a Dorm/X23/Missiles anti-zoning team specifically because of F-champ’s showing at Evo. (power of the power of the power of the :D)
Speaking on TAC infinites, I don’t think I recommend Dorm. This has been almost my whole lab-week and I don’t feel any closer than I was when I started. The falling H into rejump is so timing/spacing specific that I have a hard timing believing anyone can do it consistenly (unless they have that robot style execution.) The most reps I have ever gotten is 4 (once) and I only get past the first rep maybe 5-12% of the time. That being said, dorm is still a strong strong TAC option even if you don’t have the infinite.
[media=youtube]2LFu4OoDkc4[/media]
(I also recommend Lintlikr1 for all your Dormammu/X23 needs but I think he dropped our girl after EVO.)
Well, my execution is butt. I tried the followup a while in the lab, and tried for a while, got it a lot, but occasionally TA L instead of CS L. I can get the inputs fine except for right after a MFC, for some reason, my fingers are derp. So, I made a scrubby substitute while I learn the tougher stuff. LMHxxMHxx with a j.MMHSTA L land MS > whatever. Has enough stun after hitting with a raw Ammy cold star and then doing the combo, so it should be pretty consistent while I learn something better.
Edit: Not sure about how much I’m going to use that, becuase on my alts, X-23 is anchor. Task/Dorm/X-23. I just like her movement better than most characters, and her level 3 is so damn fast, I think she’s godlike in lvl3XF. And for four meters, stalking flare dirt naps are a joy.
And on that note, I have another question from someone who doesn’t have frames or know-how of our girl. Does she get any fun frame “upgrades”, for lack of a better term, when she is in level 3 X-factor? Like, does anything become a frame trap that wasn’t before?
Yeah, I spent maybe 2 weeks of almost nothing but CSxxTA because I think it’s one of her strongest tools. Glad you took the j.normal out of MFC idea to find what worked for you, though. Too many people these days don’t know how to come up with their own tech/combos these days. I would say that if you hit confirm with ammy, leave off any L’s. The only time I open with those is if I’m trying to punish someone for mashing in the corner.
Oh, dude, of course I’m going to leave off the light. I should learn to play her more like Tasky, standing M all day everyday (seriously, why don’t people fawn over that normal like they should?) And I practice combos outside of max damage, as that’s usually how they land in battle. Ammy confirm was just to check if the hitstun would hold after an absurd amount of hits to confirm, so that when I’m in battle, this combo won’t drop on me because I was too stupid to see how many normals it would hold.
Thanks so much for the groundwork. My execution requires that I take shortcuts, but this doesn’t do too much less damage than your alternative, so this’ll work for now.
Edit: Tried calling cold star, and during it spammed st. L about 5 times, then did the combo. It all hit, and after 1 relaunch (hyper included) the damage was 705k. Sounds good, this won’t drop too much. My one problem is that my first MFC in the combo has to be fast, or they don’t always get caught by the whole thing, but so far that hasn’t been too much of a problem.
i was doing this a while ago and i too got the idea of how to bring them down using that anti super jump vid but i was using M down H M-Talon and they were blocking it most of the time and i think i only got it like 3 times and only once was the spacing proper. guess i should have done H down H. so was that the reason they were blocking? the M instead of H or was i just giving the too much time after the air L? or was there not enough hitstun deterioration? not enough time inbetween S and the air L?
and this might sound like a rant but i have to get it off my chest. I AM GETTING FUCKING ANNOYING WITH THE TIER WHORES ONLINE!!! MY ASS YOU LIKE WESKER VERGIL AND ZERO!!! STATISTICALLY IT MAKES NO SENSE THAT ALL YOU WOULD FIGHT ONLINE ARE THE SAME 12-15 CHARACTERS WHEN THERE ARE 50? CHARACTERS IN THIS GAME!!! IVE NEVER EVEN FOUGHT A SHUMA IN THE 1300+ RANKED MATCHES!!!FUCK STOP TIER WHORING AND START USING CHARACTERS YOU LIKE FOR EXAMPLE MY RYU X23 AND WESKER TEAM!!! AND STOP RELYING ON XFACTOR!! ITS SUCH A CHEAP MECHANIC THAT MAKES IT SO YOU ARE STILL EQUAL TO ME WHEN I HAVE BEATEN 2 OF YOUR CHARACTERS AND YOU NON TO MINE!!! can i please fight people that choose some other characters besides the top 12ish? is that too much to ask? its just that sometimes i feel comepletly hopeless against Zero and Vergil with my Ryu that i have to work to get wins with and you just fucking do lighting shit??? this guy playing zero who i just fought all he did was lighting lighting lighting until it fucking worked and i have no get off me assists so i just have to take the punishment. i have to start tier whoring more and stop limiting myself with self imposed rules like never using xfactor 3.
its soo irritating losing to people you know are below you skill wise but beat you because of cheap stuff in the game. I’ll admit, i think of myself as better than a lot of people but when i lose to people who are better than me skill wise, i keep my mouth shut and accept that L. but when assholes like this Vergil-Doom-Strider guy who i just finished playing against only spams assists and does vergil 50-50mixups… its just stupid. Doom missles ARGGGGGGG that assist is just…
i think thats what i need to add to my team. an abusive assist that i can just spam any time i want and that would automatically make me much better than i am now. seriously going in with just Ryu and weak ankle slice assist is just not enough and if i ever went to a tournament i would probably go 0-2 just because the other person has 3 characters that are on the top 15 list.
after making this post i go on to fight a Firebrand Frank and Arthur team that was color coated yellow. thats what i want to see more of.
and going back and reading what i posted, seems some of it doesnt make sense but you get the gist of my complains
In 3 weeks, I’ll be done with finals for this term, and I’ll be on PSN again: jayto89.
Until then, just look for me on the DFW streams every other week: twitch.tv/boomgorillas. Tourney this Saturday, 4 weeks of only a vita at home, we’ll see what happens, lol
OMFG THAT ANTI SUPER JUMP TECHNOLOGY IS WORTHLESS BECAUSE ALL JUMPING TRISHS ALWAYS PUT TRAPS!!! THIS GAME IS GETTING ON MY NERVES. MY CHARACTERS ARE JUST TOOO WEAK
OMG OMG HELMSBREAKER HELMSREAKER HELMS BREAKER HELMS BREAKER HELMS BREAKER!!! CAN THIS KID DO ANYTHING BESIDES THAT MOVE!!!
Well, I actually don’t see many Zeros online. But I see team trenchcoat all the goddamn time, Vergil/Dante/Wesker, ughh. I swear, find a character who counters unskilled toptier play. My friend uses Chris, I use Nemesis. Vergil halfscreen, waiting for that teleport M? So am I. Jump back and j.H, dead. Or the Dante who does nothing but teleport helm breaker, Nem’s st. H has armor. Zero air dashing too much, j.M in the face. I found Nemesis wonderful for just that reason, so perhaps for online scrubs in ranked or unranked make an alt team dedicated to punishing unskilled cheap stuff, among other things. Then get a group of buddies who actually play with respect, and you’re golden. Also, a lot of that is because online reactions can’t actually punish stupid crap as easily. Like Wesker gun teleports, just try that shit offline.
Firebrand/Frank/Arthur actually sounds cheap as hell, because I run something similar, but that cheapness takes a bit more effort and skill to abuse. There’s so much cheap stuff that no one uses because it’s low tier. Wolverine with Shuma Beam, Dorm with any beam (I swear, why don’t I see him online?), Skrull with Bolts of Balthakk, Modok/Missiles, Tron with Spencer and unescapable resets for days, X-23 with Cold Star (hehe, I run that last one) Also, that man took my Banana Pepper Firebrand, I must destroy him.
Well, already made my comment on how toptier is annoying ( I hate Doom more, and I like Trish because I run a rushdown Trish, but that’s just me), but that is an amazing point. Dooms prohibit movement because finger lasers, Trish the same thing with Traps. It’s really hard superjumping up and converting a combo on a smart lad in the first place. I can understand when you drive a guy to the top of the screen because he’s trying to get around horrifying zoning, but X-23 doesn’t even have zoning, so how can one prompt punishable super jumps with her?
You have to run Jam Session(or Vajra but I personally don’t like using that for X-23) or wait until they eventually come down, there’s no other way. I think Jam Session’s vital now, brings people down and pins people down which gives here extra mix-ups. It’s the perfect assist for her, but you can’t use it alone, you need a horizontal/get-in assist as well.
Vajra is so stupid. I keep thinking there’s some hidden tech behind it and X23 that people haven’t discovered yet. You can get two reps of ankle slicer with Vajra’s ground bounce, so it can be used in combos and it does solve one of X23’s biggest problems about flyers in the air. I’d easily run X23/Viper/Strider if the DHCs were safe.
well i could pick up Strider for Vajra but i dont like two glass cannons on one team. Then again, he was my guy in MvC1. guess il give it a try.
luis1luis1… I can’t explain how much I feel your pain.
I’d rather see people abusing tiers than to fight Hulk in lag, that shit is impossible ): ):
reveLAtions is coming up, I’m not ready (if evo was any indication) but I do wanna show up for some reason I guess. If I can remember it I will try to send you a FR jayto that I way I’ll know when you are back online.
Trick with Vajra is getting the timing down so that you clip them with a charged neck slicer or get good and landing jump normals on the way down (it’s incredibly tight and not very match practical, but IIRC I was able to catch the j.m,2hxxCS LxxTA L into combo off vajra). There aren’t very many great extensions with him that I’ve found but there are a few swaggy ones if you do S+vajra, launcher cancel into Charged neck slicer or MF H (might have to cancel into a TA M, been too long since I labbed it and corner only) into low “SJ” combo get a few hits then relaunch. It also gives you an easy way to get into Dorms Ball Juggle options if you do S+Vajra sjxxCharge NSxxRTxxStalking Flare, teleport Hxxfly HS, land pillarxxChaotic flame (you have to catch them with the RT while they’re still in the SJ state so Dorm can get the flying screen of the S followup.)
On the SJ reset, it’s only gonna work if you get them scared that you’re going tac. The flipside of that is you will have to be doing some TACs as the other side of the mixup if they’re holding block the first time, TAC the next. If you don’t have a strong TAC option in your 2nd slot then I wouldn’t even bother with the mixup. I did forget to add that you’ll want to hit confirm differently depending on height. If they’re a bit higher than you, HS,2HxxTA M etc. If they’re slightly lower or right at your height, just use S since it has a much much stronger vertical hitbox.
Took 3rd at the tourney today - choked myself to death in the end, but x-23 got some good time in. Expect some footage later tonight or tomorrow in the video thread.
Managed to hit the SJ reset a few times, but only in casuals, lol. Got pretty hype doing it irl for the first time. The other side of the SJ reset can be a TAC as well as an airthrow. After a longer combo, TAC won’t even combo, but no one needs to know that, and an airthrow reset isn’t bad with the right assists, either.
Yeah, I hate that you either have to TAC on the first one or not at all. I guess abuse the lack of knowledge while you can or stop doing CS or Charged NS post SJ.
Just had a tourney today. I think I ended at around 9th place (out of ~35). I went 2 and 3. Played Dorm/X23/Strange and feel like I did pretty well. I think there was only 1 match that I felt like I straight out lost. We had 2 recording setups and I think 4 or 5 of my matches made it between them so I’ll post them up with timestamps once they pop up. This is my best tourney outting, though, and I feel pretty good about my overall performance. Being able to lame people out at the start of matches is a nice change and makes some match-ups really easy (OMG Dorm’s cr.M is such an amazing normal and Bolts sets up his zoning so beatifully.)
Only serious tourney goof was getting caught up in a match and not realizing that I had tagged Dorm out rather than letting him die. Tried to DHC into Strange’s SoV and got chaotic flame and then x-factored the mistake without realizing that he had a sliver of life left. Pretty much lost the match on that one mistake which put us out of the team tourney. >.>
Not crazy about anchor strange and pretty much the only time you see him is if something has gone wrong and I missed a dirt nap. No assist and no anchor makes that a HARD match against almost anyone.