The Penultimate: an X-23 Compilation Thread

Classic Fighting Games Ultimate Marvel VS Capcom 3
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I’ll have to double check in the lab to be sure, but I’m pretty sure she can still CS after a charged ankle slicer outside of XF. I was messing around with it the other day and got all excited cause I thought I found an answer to not having a followup off the ankle slice in the Tatsu Select (I realized the derp immediately after since you don’t get a charged AS on the Tatsu Select… >.>) That being said tho, I’m almost positive charged ASxxCS LxxTA L combos out of XF.

(Derp Edit: It combos against a standing opponent, not as an otg outside of XF…derp derp derp.)

Also, it’s some pretty scubby matches since it’s my week 1 Dr. Strange, but I got maybe an hour and a half of matches on my friends stream the other day. Most of the X23 play is xf2 loops into dirt nap so it might get a bit boring there. Maybe an hour of the matches is against my friend’s Chun teams. He’s a bit mashy, but annoyingly effective with her. Might be worth checking out if you were wanting to pick her up. Stream quality isn’t the best in the world, but just putting it out there since there haven’t been very many X-23 match vids lately.

Matches start at ~1:30:00 (The name’s wrong for a little bit, but all of the Strange/X23/Frank play is from me.)

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Nice work! Combos were on point! Nice mix-ups with Shopping Cart as well. I didn’t watch all the matches(had to go to bed) but I got up to where the Chun player came in.

I dislike criticising other people’s vids, especially when I have no UMVC3 X-23 vids, and I’m a shit X-23 player on top. IMO, I personally wouldn’t use fully charged Neck Slicers assistless, even after a block string, I find it risky.

Due to having one assist available, I feel that kinda held you back at times. When X-23 doesn’t have an assist available for her neutral, I feel she has to fall back on MFC’d pokes, non-charged Neck Slicers(sometimes) and low-to-the-ground Talon Ls to keep them at bay as well as keep her movement going so the opponent gets less chances to go in.

Chun Li…, I need to start looking into this MU more, especially since I’ve dabbled in Chun a bit. The Chun player usually stood there and waited until his assist was available before he airdashed in, and he’d almost always do this, which made his assist calls slightly predictable. With a different team, you might’ve been able to Rage Trigger on reaction and DHC into a powerful hyper(and possibly XF cancel to kill both chars.) For example, Strange might’ve been able to do exactly that if he was anchor’d and Frank on point.

In general, it’s probably best to stay in the air vs Chun(which you were trying to do.) Legs is quite annoying lol. Chun’s overhead kick(f.hk) is actually very punishable if you spot it; as she does it during a blockstring unassisted, you can jump up and do an air series into Talon L, then follow-up with a ground combo into launcher. So if a Chun player’s rinsing that, don’t advancing guard, keep an eye out and nail her. Ideally, a Chun player will instant overhead you.

Felicia’s slide is -4, which is throw punishable. That reminds me, I dislike fighting Felicia, a lot lol.

It’s easy to comment on vids when you’re not the one playing lol. I really wish I had recording equipment/frequent play so I can upload for criticism, but oh well…

And here’s Kubo’s X-23: [details=Spoiler][media=youtube]SHTZzCeaW90[/media][/details]

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Learned something new today - I wonder if it was common knowledge?

When you get a happy birthday with X-23, Crescent scythe will not hit as many times as usual on the two characters. CS-H will only hit twice, and CS-M will only hit once. Keep this in mind, because you’ll need to cancel into Talon earlier than usual. (You should maybe add this to the OP.)

I used to drop my happy birthday combos every time because of this… I just assumed I was making execution errors until I realized it was happening every. single. time.

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Felicia’s slide is wierd, I think it’s only -4 if it hits full on. I played Felix for a good while so I went to punish it when I saw it and kept getting beat out so I stopped trying, lol. If she hits with just the tip of the slide I think it’s safe. :confused:

For Rage Trigger punishing if you XF cancel into a TA L (I think it’s on the first or second hit of the CS portion) you can combo out it. I’m pretty sure you can cancel it earlier and just go into a ground chain also (into death loops in XF2+ not sure what kind of damage you can get off of XF1 tho). X-23 into Cart lets you relaunch if they don’t bounce over his head on the wall bounce portion, too.

I probably do use charged neck slicer a bit too much but I feel like it’s okay if the person you’re playing likes to stick out attacks or is assist happy since it’s really good for getting HBDs. I try not to use it against people that have fast projectiles, fast wavedashes, or chicken block tho. And I def. need to get MFCs into my neutral game, it’s just one of those annoying muscle memory things, I realllly really have to force myself to go for them when I’m in the middle of a match. On the plus side, since I do use NS a lot, it lets me sneak in a decapitating slice every one in a while.

I don’t feel like just having Cart is too much of an issue, personally. I’ll go in, try to hit the mixup, if it doesn’t work, dash back into a wall-jump/CS/TA evasion pattern until I’m in a position to get in again. I’m trying to get better at my XF guard cancels since that’s one of my weak spots atm and it’s a huge tool for XF2+ X-23.

Chun Legs are some of the most annoying shit in this game…It stuffs out so much of X23s stuff. I’m pretty sure I went into a RT at one point and got beat out by them…

Also, I don’t mind the criticism at all, that’s the whole reason I linked it up, anyways. We’ve got a local tourney this Saturday and I’ll probably have a few more matches streamed before then that I’ll try to link and hopefully some from the tourney itself.

@Jaytoo: Good find! That makes sense. I drop HBDs there all the time. I’m def. going to get that updated somewhere.

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Good set of matches. Zero, imo, is still X23’s worst matchup. It seems that Zero+Vergil are BF lol, and with Dante he can ToD X23 stupid easy. Strange can combat Zero better by putting more hitboxes on the screen, and once he can keep Zero on the ground he will be prone to cart mixups (which on reaction look very difficult to block). The team itself is very X23 centric, however. Strange burning XF1 imo takes away the scare from this team, and Frank doesn’t look like he will have many opportunities to lvup (though I’m sure merky has found something to get him at least to lv4). Again, good sets merk.

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And that would explain why when I was fighting a Felicia, I tried to punish Slide with st.M(didn’t know the exact data at the time, just looked unsafe), I got counter-hit lol. That kinda jarred me, even though I couldn’t punish it with st.M, I knew I technically had the frame advantage and it was done fairly close, but yeah, guess it’s distance dependent or something.

I’m the opposite, I use too much MFC and forget about mixing people up with assists. Watching your vids reminded me that I should start using a lot more Mirage mix-ups again. Now that I’m learning Amaterasu(want to make my Ammy actually good, not just F+HHHHH haha), Cold Star’ll, that’ll give me more options for mix-ups as well as a relauncher.

I’m also debating between having a point X-23 and having X-23 in 2nd right now. Point X-23’s more maintenance and more difficult to build around, but I get two assists for extra cover, X-23 can wallop chars for 1.mil+ without XF with 1 assist(relauncher) and I can save XF for my anchor.

X-23 in 2nd has XF2 cheese, and I can just slap a good neutral assist with her so she’s easier to manage. But once XF wears off, her damage weakens without a relauncher. Only has 1 assist, can’t cover all her bases. Danger of running into powerful anchors without XF. Unsafe DHC if I wanna get the point char out(but has crossover counters.)

Leaning towards point X-23 at the moment, but I’ll see…

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As far as leveling up frank, Strange is supposed to be in charge of that, I just haven’t had enough matches to work that in yet (I need to get some in-match combo experience with strange). Anywhere near the sides of the screen you can hard tag into frank off a crumple and get a meterless level 4 frank.
The super meter-heavy option is DHC’ing from SoV>WXP>Survival techniques, but it’s 3 meters for a lousy payoff. I’m willing to bet there’s some way to hard tag during EoA.

The overall gameplan is to let Strange do what he can (hopefully kill 1 person), die (gives me 2 meters even without touching them unless they popped xf or something), then just let X-23 go to town with XF2/Dirt Nap. The few times I popped XF with Strange was just to see if I could manage his XF 1 TOD in a real match but I don’t think I would actually use them in a real match except against Zero or some of the other problem characters.

Even if I don’t get a chance to level up Frank, I kind of see this kind of team like an IM anchor team. If Frank is out on the field I’ve already messed up in a big way. I’ll probably have an XF3 Frank tho and I’m pretty comfortable playing level 1 frank at this point anyways. Eventually I’ll focus on getting him leveled up a bit more, but that’s kind of back burner on this team right this second.

As much as I love X-23 on point I think she’s really the most terrifying in 2nd position (Personally, I feel like XF2 X-23 isn’t anywhere as fun since you’re just killing 2 people off the 1 hit and don’t really get to play her mixup/oki game). On point, though, I don’t think she has a way to kill off 1 hit and have 3 meters for the dirt nap so the best I think you can do is run one of the heavy hitter DHCs and it makes it that much harder to get a Dirt Nap.

208

Wow, I only use mirage mixups. I forget there’s other things with her. I occasionally use a hawkeye assist to get in for free with charged neck slicer, or try to bait punishes then go hyper. And then I also talon attack too much, but I never Mirage Feitn cancel. Also, wow, really? I SUCK at Mirage Feint Canceling, how the fuck do you incorporate that into her neutral game and not just combos? There’s a lot of X-23 tech I’ve never been aware of, I gotta stop by here a lot more often…

Also, what assist are you using with Ammy? Because I would recommend a lockdown assist with Ammy so she can do her instant overheads (I use Frank’s cart myself). Good Ammy training in general, but I think I’m one of the rare few who likes Ammy point.

And 2nd position X-23 is the gal for me. For one thing DHCing to Nemesis is SHIT on damage, so my team kind-of forces my hand putting her in second. I had her on anchor, and she was WONDERFUL, but you can do around the same shit with level 2 XF, and Hawkeye becomes terrifying with XF, and X-23 becomes terrifying with that assist. I put her second for the simple reason of, I can either: 1. If nemesis is alive, do some relaunchy combos and have a fun time with them. 2. If Nemesis is deads, I get the XF cheese, and my shorter combos won’t mean crap when they still kill. She just wants to kill a character, and then they have to worry about some unblockable. And her in 2nd, you’re going to have more meter for that cheesy stuff.

And, just my opinion against Chun with X-23. My sparring buddy mains Chun on anchor, and he mashes her standing overhead a lot. It’s so easy to punish UNTIL she’s at level 3 XF speed. He uses it until I am prepared to punish, then jabs me. Chuns are scary to fight on anchor, and he is good at opening folks up. If only he knew combos with her (he always misses the otg, so his XF3 combos barely ever one-shot a character), then he’d be a lot scarier. He still gets 3-person chunbacks online OFTEN, because there is method to his comboless madness, but it always appears to be random. So, yeah, legs block everything, standing overhead is annoying when fast, and if he can read low pokes, damn if that’s not some amazing counterhit setup. And Chun’s hyper invincibility beats out Rage Trigger when used afterwards, makes it annoying to punish stray limbs. X-23 does have the advantage of not having to enter the stage into Chun’s very safe spinning bird kick EX. X-23 doesn’t have a terrible time against Chun-Li, but she has no clear weaknesses of hers. I usually just Nemesis her if he’s still around, those jumping limbs prevent a Chun-Li approach completely.

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NEW TECH FOR MY TEAM!!! YAY!!!

Well, my friend and I just got new tech. I can’t really training mode on my bud’s ps3 much, but we did have a first to 50 after a long time not playing marvel, and we both got new tech, me just by trial and error, cost me a few chars :smiley: (man’s been leveling up over the two weeks I didn’t play him).

Well, first, I figured out a new incoming crossup. I’m not sure how many assists this works with, but on incoming, I can QCF forward, I haven’t decided between light and medium yet, and Nem’s clothesline rocket comes in. Crosses up. Sometimes with Neck Slice, X-23 stays right under them instead of a different side. So, if they block, they wil block a rocket, and touch the floor, setting me up for mixups, I’m right next to them. OR, I go behind them, wall bounce, OR I am ambiguous and don;t go behind them, they think I do, wall bounce. I got punished by a tron limb, but I know this works damn well on Chris, Tron, and a Trish who does not airdash up immediately. And off a raw wall bounce, Iunno, I bet you could get some jump loops. Long X-23 combos aren’t my forte. Anyone got a good combo figured out for after a raw wall bounce, like off Log Trap or Ghost Rider’s smackychain or something?

And I tried out your TAC techstuff. It is AWESOME. I used a Nemesis DR relaunch combo, TAC, X-23 dives and whiffs, H S, air MMH CS-H Talon down, ankle + assist, S IMMEDIATELY CS-H, Talon, ankle super, it does nearly 1mill off the right Nemesis starter, and nearly 9k off a Nemesis COMMAND THROW, one meter for both of these. This just made my team terrifying once I get it consistent. Command throws all just got silly powerful, and I can move any opponent to the corner for more command throw setups while barely using meter. I have to risk a TAC counter, but whatevs.

And to Hoshi, a few questions. Do you find that the hitstun is insanely small once you get to the second X-23 relaunch? I can’t put in heavy buttons at all, just have to go straight to the CS, and quick. It may just be Nemesis, but I don’t know. Also, any pointers for the upwards TAC timing for when they’re coming down? I find it annoying.

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My usage of MFC in neutral basically means spamming st.H and st.M(1hit)>st.H lol. From afar, I MFC st.H twice. If it hits, go into a full combo. If it gets blocked, spam it some more(it’s like +11 on block lol)/ do an Mirage Feint mix-up if I have an assist available/cancel st.H into other junk.

If I whiff st.H, MFC effectively removes the lag of the whiff. From about medium range, I do the same thing, but with st.M(1hit)>st.H and if you ever watch Deviljin’s X-23 in action, he does exactly this. Though I don’t particularly like X-23’s normals(hitboxes are lacking IMO and her air normals aren’t the best), MFCing really helps out in that regard IMO.

For me, I’m using Cold Star as a pinning assist and a relauncher. Relaunching with Cold Star’s fiddly versus some chars if you’re using lengthy combos but in terms of damage, Cold Star’s one of the more damaging relaunchers(along with Repulsor Blast and Dark Hole) and you can reach top-notch damage with a DHC(talking the 1.mil+ range)…but it needs a bit of finger-gymnastics. Plus pinning assists are too sick for X-23’s and Storm’s mix-ups.

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I don’t play X-23, but I wanted to look into her options. I just want you to know that this thread in incredible, good work work.

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Agreed. I learned a crapton since I got here, and I’m pretty new.

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Also, shout outs to another dirty south X-23 player. He actually won RCR this past saturday (I think we ended up with 25-30 entrants all said and done) with his Dante/X-23/IM team. The matches did get recorded and I’ll be linking them up ASAP. Look out for that next week.

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I’ve recently figured out that I like the things that x-23 can do and I am in the process of learning her neutral game. I usually don’t read these threads and I like to figure out everything by myself, but I had question about frame data. I’m working on some pretty interesting ideas for advance-guard canceling with her and frame traps. (unfortunately I don’t know how much they have been explored since I never see a good X-23 player) Anyways frame data questions are

St.L start-up:
Cr.L start-up:
St.M start-up:
Cr.M start-up:
St.H start-up:
Cr.H start-up:
First hit of St.M hit-stun and block-stun:
First hit of Cr.M hit-stun and block-stun:
Advance guard frames advantage/disadvantage when used:
Earliest time to cancel Light.Mirage:
Earliest time to cancel Medium.Mirage:
Earliest time to cancel Heavy.Mirage:

Mind you I am not looking for the second hit of both medium attacks frame data. Just the first…

Any help would be appreciated! Thanks.

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Hmm, I never really understood why people would be interested in frame data (other than of obvious problem moves like Helm breaker etc) in a game like this where no 2 situations are ever the same, but maybe that’s just me.

Anyways I found another way of confirming a combo from SJ height that is a bit more surefire than Merkyl’s but requires the use of X-factor. Merkyl’s is therefore the goto combo when set up properly, but when you really need a SJ character dead off a stray hit (think Zero/Magneto/Magneto) then maybe this is for you.

SJ j.H xx j.d.H xx qcf +M (delayed as much as possible) then when X23 is closest to her opponent or just behind them (midscreen) Xfactor j.S and then you can neutral jump MH xx qcf+L and confirm from there. With 2 assists I get 1.02 million without using meter so it’s a pretty good way of confirming into a kill and, like I said, it’s a bit more guaranteed whereas the “standard” SJ confirm is a little bit more prone to dropping due to varying heights and whatnot.

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I second what Trauma said about the frames. That being said…

All the frame data is already in this thread. Every normal/special/super has the info from the guide in there (All of the “Basics” info in the thread.) Please at least do a little checking before posting questions like that. :confused: (I hate posting stuff like this, but as some point I feel like I’m being too nice when I already took the time to put all the info in the thread already.)

AG info isn’t included here but I don’t think that’s character specific (I’m pretty sure that’s a system mechanic.)

And I like the MF M>XF>S but getting MF M to not pass through is one of those things that is learnable, it just takes work and is character specific (realistically, you only have to learn it for a few characters, tho). If someone needs to die, though, anything goes. Lol.

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It’s understandable. :wink: Sorry to be that guy. I’m not use to seeing these threads with all the data and knowledge posted on the front page like that. Very in-depth. Good job on organizing it/maintaining it.

I know frame data isn’t the most reliable thing in this game, but it does help personally. I just have some crazy ideas and was hoping for the knowledge so I could see if I could make a few things work and work in more than one way. I’ll be around this thread trying to learn X-23 more. I need a new character to focus on and I think this will be her.

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You’re right about the TA M being spaceable (is that a word?) so that it doesn’t pass through opponents. Therein lies exactly the “problem” ; it needs to be spaced properly, whereas sometimes you just want to kill off a stray chase and that’s where the XF comes in handy. That’s all I’m saying :).

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Yeah, that wasn’t aimed at you or anything like that. Lol. I Was just putting it out there as a general note for anyone else strolling by. I fully agree with killing off any touch when you need to using whatever tools you have to.

@Gottnoskill: It’s all good. You were just like the 3rd or 4th person posting a question that was either just answered or that had already been put over here. Lol. Welcome to the board and look forward to seeing what you come up with. :stuck_out_tongue:

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I know I’m slowpoking on this by about two months (I quit playing or awhile) but I can actually confirm that this IS possible. It was possible in vanilla too. I don’t know how to make it work on command, but I had it happen in a few sets against a Doom player online. Back in vanilla Doom would sometimes fall too far for me to land the OTG after my midscreen BNB combo (Basic air loops) and occasionally when I’d just BARELY OTG his feet I would have time to connect st.l and hit a full relaunch. I have never been able to get this to work in training mode, and I don’t know if you’ve been able to recreate it since posting, but I just wanted to say it’s definitely in the game. The potential is there.