We should all be bitching about the online aspect of the game, and not the mechanics…
sure is a lot of crying and super long walls of text in this thread.
thought one of the draws of marvel was all the crazy broken shit.
now that all the characers can do crazy broken shit with XF, and some are extremely crazy and broken to begin with, its a problem?
oh well. one mans broken is another mans fun
The thing is, your complaint might not be understandable. Your complaint might be silly. Did you ever consider that? “Legions” of people on this website are saying “deal with it” to the early complaints because of a particular philosophy which pervades this community, and has for years. It’s a somewhat Darwinian philosophy of competition which asserts that to be the best (seen as a desirable goal) one must do, within the confines of the game, whatever is necessary to secure a win, and that it is strong and morally correct to do this. Introducing concepts such as “fair/unfair” into the discourse is seen as counter intuitive to the development and evolution of the game. It is viewed as pointless bickering (i.e. tears), and as a sign of weakness (scrubby). Anything which can be construed as seeking to hinder the game’s development will be looked upon with disdain. It has been this way for a long time, and it is by this philosophy that the old games that are still played have come so far. It is by this philosophy that we stop worrying about whether the game is legitimately suitable for competition in its initial stages, and this allows us to take a game to the extremes of play and root out nearly all possible techniques and tactics. It is only after a good deal of time has passed that it is seen as acceptable to debate and decide a game’s competitive merit, for the simple reason that at that time more data is available. In other words, your complaints are dismissed because they are not constructive, and it is too early to decide such things.
For purposes of demonstration, here is an example of a statement that will not be appreciated, and one that will.
Unwelcome: “Sentinel is too strong in this game. I think X-factor lvl 3 increases his damage too much, and this skews the game in his favor to the degree that it starts to impact the game’s viability”.
Welcome: “I noticed that Sentinel is looking particularly strong in this game, and has become quite popular, being played on many teams. His X-factor lvl 3 form is something that can be rather dangerous. Seeing this, I have been in the lab formulating tactics and teams to combat him. Here is what I have found so far”
The first comment does not develop the game, it merely comments on Sentinel’s strength. The second comment also comments on his strength, but offers ways to “deal with it”. The second comment aids the development of the game. “Deal with it” isn’t necessarily just a call for a player to cease their complaints, but can be seen as a literal call to action (i.e. for the player to stop complaining and simply find a way to combat the tactic or aspect of the game with which they are displeased).
A large part of the problem is that most of the players who are making accusations of things in the game being “unfairly skewed” flatly are not experienced enough to make those kinds of critiques. It seems to me that many of you who are the most vocal critics have never been around for day 1 of a game before, and then stuck with it over the years, watching it develop. Anyone who has knows that it is unwise to try to critique a game that is early in its evolution, as they would be well aware of the celerity with which a game can change. The seemingly valid critique of today might be completely incorrect or moot tomorrow. Also, we simply do not have enough information at the present time to fairly and accurately analyze the game for faults. The game has been out for just a week, please give it time and let it grow before you begin making calls. You cannot decide if a rose bush will be a show winner until its flowers have bloomed.
There will be a time when such discussion will be valid, and much warranted; however, now is most certainly not that time.
A hard counter does not exist for everything. So X-23 can kill an incoming character at will when she has 3 bars of meter and is sitting on X-factor and you cannot do anything about it…is this a problem? We don’t know. The game has been out for a week. There might possibly be a way to avoid this, or in the end it might not matter that much and X-23 will be bottom tier despite that tactic. Only time and labwork will tell. Lab work is what makes or breaks tactics, and it is lab work that spawns all counters. It is probably the most productive and helpful thing you can do for the community. Debating the tactic’s fairness, on the other hand, helps nothing.
I’m going to have to disagree. There is nothing legitimate about declaring there to be a problem with so little trial.
I’ve played fighters all my life and presently don’t see anything wrong with MvC3. Do I believe it’s perfect? No, of course not. I just don’t see the sense in declaring anything wrong with a game that has only been out for a week. If Sentinel or anyone else still looks ridiculous in a year, then it would be suiting to have a discussion on it. But as it stands now, there just isn’t enough data. Do I have concerns of my own? Sure. I, however, see no benefit in posting here explicating them when it would be of far greater benefit to myself, and the community, to hit the lab and see if I can allay those concerns, or to absolutely justify them. Please bear in mind that I only discard or consider a concern vindicated after numerous exhaustive trials. Not a week’s worth.
I’m all for running trials, but not at tournament level. Tournaments need to run the baseline game so that we may actually get the data needed to start making decisions down the road. If the baseline game is fine, then we should leave it as is. If problems emerge, then there is the possibility we may choose to fix it, but it is more likely that the community will drop the game. Selective banning and game alteration is something that the Smash community was known for, and in this community they were much maligned for it (whether that is just or not I’ll leave up to you). I would honestly be surprised if that happened.
This is a post that a lot of players need to take a look at. Before you open your mouth about anything in this game, go look at that list. Research it. Learn some history.
tl;dr: Chill out. The game has been out for a week. People tell you “deal with it” because that’s what you need to do.
Really? Only a minority of that was even cogent, and THAT fraction can simply be paraphrased as:
“My opinion is that offering opinions is merit-less and self-aggrandizing.”
Pot to kettle…
I’ve come to the realization that I can’t find anyone in ranked quickplay because everyone is too busy typing their feelings about the game instead of playing it. (or not playing it).
Haters gonna hate. People gonna love it. No one is holding your mother captive and forcing you to buy the game. Go sell your copy in the marketplace if you hate it so much.
Yeah, this post will get a lot of traction with the people in this thread trying to portray themselves as old school spartan arcade warriors and the like, but come off it. You’re deliberately misconstruing people by introducing the concept of ‘fairness’ in order to tackle a point nobody really made. When that word was used, it was used to describe the relative strengths and weaknesses of differing strategies-- not their moral qualities. I agree that it is largely too early to definitively state whether or not something is broken, I actually agree with your comments about the lack of data at this point-- most of your points about the game itself in fact; but I don’t agree with this silly, self aggrandizing, man up and deal with it approach.
By and large it’s just hollow posturing, showing someone how much of a serious badass marvel player you are by throwing out pithy ‘deal with it’ comments doesn’t improve the game or the community anymore than noting that Sentinel is powerful does. It’s incredibly insincere to pretend that any substantial percentage of the people tossing out throwaway comments like that are doing anything other than adding shit to the fire.
i fucking lol’d.
you have your thesaurus on lock, but you’re basically doing the same thing that you’re calling him out for.
angry nord is a badass and his post was awesome.
How is telling people to learn to beat it not good advice? The only thing better than telling people to learn to beat is to show them how to beat it.
Whining and saying something is unbeatable or pointing out that something is really strong adds nothing, the first thing is just them being frustrated and the other thing is just pointing out the problem that was probably already known. At least telling someone to learn to beat it or deal with it is pointing them in the right direction of overcoming it.
This isn’t “deal with it” as in lay back and take it, this is literally “deal with it” as in get hands on with the problem and figure something out.
it’s terrible advice, because you don’t have a fucking choice; perhaps more useless than them crying about it.
if you don’t ‘deal with it’ you’re basically quitting the game, so what are you saying?
No the fucking problem with MVC3 is:
To much fucking damage for nothing, the don’t get hit statement is great, but does I don’t think it has ever been more fucking literal then in this game, you get hit once by ANYONE they can 70% you with ease, not even counting Xfactor.
Xfactor: Like god damn this is stupid, this comeback shit needs to stop, I could deal with Ultras but Xfactor is just retarded. Sure you can counter Xfactor with your Xfactor but that’s flawed to. Imagine this scenario: I’v raped your first two characters pretty convincingly, your down to your last character and activate Xfactor. Now your a threat to me, a huge one, do i A) Activate my Xfactor to counter, but have it last for less time then yours because your only have 1 left? Or do I B) Go vs your LV3 Xfactor character with my normal one and be at a huge disadvantage?
It’s like why should I be at a huge disadvantage for having an advantage?
I don’t hate the game, I don’t hate Sentinel even, I understand that some characters are gonna be top tier, look at MVC2. Hell I could even deal with the HUGE DAMAGE with ZERO EXECUTION SKILLS, because I don’t think that time spent in training mode just pressing buttons should be such a huge factor(SSF4 1 frame links were stupid) but I just can’t justify Xfactor…
I actually agree with most of what he’s saying, I just don’t think he’s copping to how useless lots of of the ‘pro’ MVC3 (I use the term very loosely here) bile is too. Sure, learning how to play the game is excellent advice, but I don’t think that represents more than 3-4 posters in here, Mr.X included.
the xf argument is one thing, sure whatever, but who’s to say what ‘too much damage’ is? you’ve got 3 characters as is, and a longer game doesn’t exactly mean better.
mvc3: bushido blade
damage/health determines how many ‘skirmishes’ or like, defenses you need to bypass-- imagine damage was lower, and you’d have to get in on sentinel (or whichever keep-away character) like 10 times.
i don’t know man…
But it’s the truth. You figure out how to beat it or keep losing until you quit or someone figures it out for you.
truth it is. but i don’t blame players for wanting their game to be balanced; however, it’s too early for tears. srk isn’t the place to bitch about casual level balance, regardless of its relevance… so when we see all the tournaments dominated by sentinel, then the bitching is warranted.
You really expect a different response to so many shallow complaints? Not everyone has answers yet. But the idea is that there may be ones in the future.
I dunno Sagat in SF4 didn’t win shit and people thought he was still god tier, ended up getting the nerf bat pretty hard anyway. I don’t think Sentinel needs to win, people will still whine and Capcom will neuter him.
Ok, I’m going to try this again. Read the beginning of my post again carefully. Here, I’ll help:
Fair/unfair was merely put forth as an example. If the point was obscured in any way, I apologize, but I thought I was quite clear. You accuse me of setting up a straw man, but I in no way did that. I merely introduced it as an example of an overarching point, that point being that anything that does not advance the game is going to be viewed as useless/bitching/nonsense/idle talk by a lot of the community.
Telling new blood (or scrubby old blood) to “deal with it” does help the community my friend. Complaining will get us no where as players. Either we learn to deal with the tactics we’re dealt, or we stop playing…because banning shit doesn’t happen too often. Yes, I’ll grant you that I’m sure there are plenty of people who are just internet tough guys trying to look like old school hard asses, but you’re discounting that many of us have a reason for saying such things and that there IS thought behind it.
So I’ll put the question to you: What helps the game and the community then? If we don’t tell the incessant wave of bitching players to “deal with it”, what do we do? Join in? Because if that’s what ends up happening then the old SRK I knew and loved is dead, and I want no part of the new one.
Sure, some of the rhetoric is useless and just posturing. You’re probably not wrong about that, but a lot of it needs to be said.
Quit whining. Deal with it.
(Had to do it ^_^)
Most of your post doesn’t make sense to me, but this is semi-coherent. Remember how people bitch from time to time that such and such game is mashtastic or for mashers? Exactly. Given two noobs currently (and most everyone right now is pretty nooby), the guy with Sentinel wins. Mash into XFC into some random billion point combo. That’s got nothing to do with age or experience or past background or jack shit and I don’t know why you bring that unrelated randomness up.
As re: the rest of it: it’s not a reflection back to those halcyon days of old, it’s a comparative example of alternative ways to implement a system and thus pretty valid for a critique.
The game and players will develop over time. Right now you’re just seeing shock and awe as people explore their new world: feel free to politely ignore. If we’re still stuck in this same mentality one month from now, I’ll eat my hat.* :tup:
- and by “my hat”, I mean “a nice slice of cake”
WHat’s broken now, will be meh later. We are still in the first month of a wide release.