Arguing about upper and lower mid tier is useless imo. There’s only 3 tiers and 90% are in the middle.
i think the argument for upper mid tier is valid. it’s basically an argument for or against a character of a specific groove to be tourament worthy. you could be the best kyosuke in the world, and at high level play you don’t have a chance at winning a real tourney. apparently C guile and ken when played at high levels (daigo? top us players etc) can really compette in tournies against undisputed top tiers (Blanka, C Sagat, A Bison, Sak). the question i’m asking is whether or not C - Rugal is also in that category. i ask because i haven’t seen people use him in high level tounrey play. so i’m not sure - he looks damn good on paper, but he might suck in real life (certain match ups , etc). it takes a highlly skilled player to bring out the best in each character - hence i post on the forum for the advice of people who’ve played more / seen more / etc.
I thought mid tier was the tier that can be effectively used in tourneys. Rugal can be used along with Kim, Ken, Ryu, Akuma, Guile, Raiden, Iori, Kyo, Yamazaki, Chun…most can be used effectively. Since all that happens when we try to make more tiers is arguing, it probably means we should stick to 3.
imo
Top: Blanka, Sagat, Bison, Sakura
Upper-mid: Vega, Ken, Geese/Hibiki/Cammy/Iori/Chun
Mid: Eagle/Rolento/Rock/Kyo/Ryu/Guile/Akuma/Honda/Morrigan/Mai
i look forward to the rest of your analysis buk, then i’ll put up my reply.
peace :tup:
Imo, Cammy and Chun are top tier. Chun has a great RC with that kick shit since you can go use it to combo supers and IMO she has the best lv.2 cancels in the game. And Guile, Rock and Honda are Upper mid tier. And on on P-groove Kyo is pretty solid too.
There is plenty more to top tier than just Blanka, Sagat, Bison and Sakura. Sure Cammy’s efficiency has dropped a little over time, but she is definitely still top for sure.
c honda upper tier. RC hhs, rc headbutt, rc grab … it’s over … bas / other japanese players abuse the hell out of C RCing honda.
how exactly do you guys go about doing RC grab?
i try to buffer the motion while in a jab(start with up direction, then go either direction) then i try to RC it after the jab is done. but i do the motion kind of fast…so i dunno do you need to do it slowly? or what?
<—i kno this should go in the honda thread, but that place is dead and with the new format of the “character specific” no one really checks the new posts of specific characters anymore.
make sure you dont do it fast, because if you do it too fast you won’t be able to RC it, you can cancel a normal with a special move but not a roll (RC)
how the hell do you do a slow 360? i don’t see how RCing is dependent upon the speed of the joystick motion. as long as the jp+sk comes right before the end of the motion and then you hit punch it should come out.
huh?
i did the slow 360 just to make sure i kno WHEN to press roll—>fierce.
for a while, RC 360 was bothering me, cuz i kno that 360 only require a 270 motion, so if i OVER rotate, and press roll, the jab or short version of whatever motion i already inputted would come out instead of a RC fierce 360(in honda’s case, a jab 360 would come out and it wouldn’t be RCed). anyways this is off topic. i posted this in the honda section, so if you wanna continue to discuss more in depth about this, go there.
Just some FYI. The SBO 2004 ranks like this (among the good characters):
Top tier - Sagat, Blanka
Mid tier - Sakura, Vega (US Bison), Cammy, Guile, Chun-Li, Geese, Rolento
Kyo is also noted as having great offensive capabilities. As for grooves, A is ranked the highest, S the lowest, and everything else inbetween.
Is that what the pamphlet said? I guess that makes A-Sagat the best character in the game. 
anyways, i just read the last 5 pages of this thread. i have to say there’s a lot of funny stuff going on.
-terry is mid tier. I don’t see him moving any higher in the rankings. One of my strats against him is to walk right into his crack shoot just so i can land a c.lkxxxsuper with ken. :tup: . He’s still a decent character at best. I think he’s very usable in a tourney situation, but just watch for who he’s matched up with. Every time i hear or read terry’s name it reminds me of that kid at ECC wearing the fatal fury hat. I think what makes terry scrubby is the way most people play him, roll “rising taco!!!”(not saying that ALL people who use him are scrubby, but some are :razzy: ).
-Rugal is NOT high tier. I don’t know how that conlcusion was made. He doesn’t not have good RC’s, he’s a big character, and a lot of his normals are laggy. He DOES have good lvl 2 cancels, and CC’s but that can only get you so far.
-Buk, when popo said that eagle has high vitality i think he was refering to the fact that he doesn’t take damage like other characters do. Mostly becuase he’s not really a rush character, and he does a little more turtling to draw out matches with his slow paced style.
-Now i’m waiting for BAS to use RC Zangief seriously and make him top tier also.
OH hell yes.
Not sure about post-SBO, but the “best” CvS2 setup in Japan is A-Sakura, Vega, Blanka. It’s been that way for the past few years. If you look at tourneys over there, that is the most popular team (with Tokido winning in 2003 and DQN Trio in 2004).
As for best characters, it’s not all that useful saying who’s the best cause it comes down to team mechanics and abusing your groove. Shirow’s been dominant for years with his C-Yamazaki, Rolento, Sagat and Nitto is considered one of the best with a K-Geese, Cammy Sagat.
Honest question;
What is holding A-Hibiki back from being top tier? AFAIK she has no weaknesses. In fact the only thing she has which I don’t love is her semi-slow roll. Bleh, built in dodge ;).
ranevski: one AC and shes without meter again
-cammy can lvl 3 super her after a “landed” bnb
-sagat can lvl 2+ cannon her after a “landed” bnb
-bison can hk scissor kick into mid screen activate after a “landed” bnb
-i think…blanka can blanka ball her after a landed bnb?
and from what i observed…
-her CC doesn’t dish out that much damage if you dont’ reset. and resetting means that they ‘might’ be able to get out of it and punsih you while your still in CC mode
-her garaunteed CC(which seems like only average dmg) is off her kick throw, which has the shortest range in the game, plus it’s a kick throw, so it’s 5 frames startup instead of 3, somewhat of a disadvantage
I’m not going to give a full reply to this (since I still owe popoblo a reply to the Eagle thing), but I’ll point out where you’re wrong.
Sagat cannot punish a Hibiki combo if done right. This is one of the most stubborn misconceptions about Hibiki that just won’t go away.
Bison and Cammy might be able to punish Hibiki’s combo (but not P/K Hibiki), but they can’t punish her max range slash. Hibiki also beats Bison pretty handily on the ground.
Blanka definitely cannot punish Hibiki with a Blanka Ball after a slash. He can level 3 super, but not if Hibiki does it right (which is admittedly a bit difficult, but easy if you just do max range slashes). Hibiki can also punish any Blanka Ball, hit or not.
her CC does about 8000ish (generally 7800, give or take a few 100 depending on how good you are with the jabs), which is in the “really good damage” range of CCs. And of course, she can land it in just about any situation…
I dunno what you mean about her only guaranteed CC being off of her kick throw, but the thing about having the shortest range in the game is pretty irrelevant. It’s only 8 pixels shorter, which I’ve never really seen come into play ever in all this time I’ve been using Hibiki. I’ve never really heard any other Hibiki players complain about it either. The 5 frames to throw thing also isn’t as bad as everybody makes it out to be either. I actually kick throw more often than I punch throw since it’s harder to break.