snake: vega rapes geese. too much speed and range. k geese is probably the best to have in the match up because of jd and the lucky super factor, but rushing vega down is really difficult. you’ll end up eating standing’crouching mp and rc ball all day.
P and S Sakura are really good. No RC for those two characters last time I checked. What’s her weakness anyway? Outside of RC, she lacks a good reversal? Those level one spin kicks aren’t that bad if you ask me. Maybe my timing might be off, but I’m pretty sure I’ve had meaty attacks beaten by that super before.
All that trash talking about Eagle this, Eagle that is seriously hurting my eyes. WTF? Three pages of this garbage? I’d like if people stopped always getting offended over small matters for once and maybe post some helpful info instead of just making up stuff.
Is it really that offensive that some random scrub thinks Sakura sucks? Either bet it or stfu and let him voice his opinion already. 
you said sakura isnt all about RC then you said if theyre trying to rush you then roll cancel. rushdown doesn = blindly running in and pressing buttons of your choice. its a lot of things combined. you cant just say RC through it. standing roundhouse is good but people need more than a good poke to be toptier. toptier is more about the upperhand advantages that arise from certain situations. but thats just my opinion. and its also about how much damage you can give. even then shes pretty solid. RC just makes her unbelievably annoying. but RC sometimes hurts her more than it helps. its true for a lot of people also. like how blanka waking up loves RC electricity. easy throw, level3, custom, or wait into a big poke. without the RC electricity you wouldnt have tried to be the shit. and now youre dead. so use at your own risk. everybody thinks i’m josh wong? yeah ok why not i’m josh wong lol.
just watched like 35 minuts of bas’s a honda. He is so fucking broken my god.
I use Vega in my K-team as well as geese. Keep in mind that one of Vega’s best grooves is P, which doesnt have RC. I play alot of matches revolving around Geese and Vega. When I play geese against Vega I own. And my Vega gets owned by Geese. You just need to throw more against A-vegas to stop RC. Thats all.
I was just saying that pressure isnt an issue to Sakura. You can do more to get out, but RC is simply the best option. And you CAN RC through a rushdown. Say someones poking the hell out of you and you wanna get them away and teach them to be more careful when rushing. Just RC and then trust me, there not gonna be so eager to rush after that. And when you brought up RC electricity you didnt make much sense. If ANYTHING starts to be abused THAT much then it starts to become crap. Use everything you have wisely and wont become a problem.
Sakura has more that makes her top tier. Look at Sagat. One of the best characters in the game. Sure he would still be good without cr. fierce, probably still top tier. He would still be top, but he wouldnt be god tier anymore without cr. fierce. Sak has damaging combos (not including CCs), good pokes and great mix ups. Not to mention her CCs and the best RCs in the game next to electricity and Chun-li’s kicks.
I wasnt arguing. Arguing is what you would have saw in the worst character thread. I havent argued since then. Everything I’ve said in this thread hasnt gone back and forth like the worst character thread. I was simply saying to nick T. that sak doesnt need RC to be top tier. And I posted a few facts to back it up. And I wasnt even a part of that whole Eagle arguement asides from a few posts to get people to stop fighting. So nobody think that I’m trying to start some flame war.
That has to be the vaguest analysis I’ve seen. Cuz isn’t Vega faster than most char and outrange them as well???/
As far as K Hibiki goes, IMO she is not as good as A Hibiki, but K Hibiki does have alot tricks that can help her land supers and she has more offensive options than A Hibiki.
And whoever somewhere in here said Ryu was upper mid tier is on crack… Ryu sucks. Ryu is the worst shoto and IMO bottom 10 in the game.
Snake Drizzle…
Uh… Sagat has more than cr FP. He has st LK, st FP, cr MK, st MK, and long ass cr LK. So uh… he has more than cr FP.
So yea… don’t use Sagat’s cr FP as if he had only one poke to compare to Sak’s RH. 99% of the time cr FP is a pain to deal with because he has 12341234234239423952345 other pokes he can do to throw you off. St LK is the gayest of them all… as a Sagat player, IMO it should build meter 
N-Groove is Hibiki’s best groove and A is second. Too many reasons for me to list. Does anyone agree?
Ryu may not have as much going for him as Ken or even Akuma, but he still has enough to make him really good. He owns on N-groove and is pretty good on other grooves. Way higher than bottom ten. IMO he’s smack dab in the middle of tier listing. And he isnt the worst shoto. Lol, Dan is, if you want to count him. :karate:
What was that supposed to mean? Are you dissin’ me or what?
Keep in mind that I said Sagat was Top tier even without his BEST poke. st LK sucks. It’s only half decent for linking supers. Cr MK is extreamly good I’ll have to agree. St Mk sucks ALOT. Cr LK is really good though.
You forgot the all mighty st jab©. Good for ticks and pressure. I use st jab©, cr LK, cr MK, cr FP and st FP on the taller opponents(and to punnish blanka balls). I never said that Sagat only had one good poke. I just said that he was top tier even without his BEST poke.
i would have the say that hibiki benefits the most from A groove not from N groove. the only thing i see N groove hibiki having over A hibiki is her low jump. run isnt bad either but she isnt much of a rushdown character so walk suits her just fine. its pretty useful for every character. A hibiki has counter and then activate, throw then activate, the most A groove custom combo mixups, useful rollcancels, and since shes best as a turtle character(my opinion) A groove suits her quite nicely. N groove has some nice traits as well such as counter breakstock super, rollcancels, running low jab, etc but however i dont think its as good as A groove for her.
i agree with ryu being better than bottom 10. hes definately midtier.
i think youre quite mistaken about sagat. you said standing lk sucks. i think youre very wrong about this. probably his second best poke. its very useful for pushing people to the corner and overall zoning of many many characters. crouching lk is good like you said. standing mk is sagat’s best poke. not his safest but i value it over his crouching and standing fierce. the range of this move alone makes it good. its also fast and it does decent damage. its the best move he has against far poking opponents like sakura and blanka. when you’re playing footsies with them standing mk is a must have. and if youre winning without it then try using it. you’ll be surprised how good it is. its safe to say that every one of sagat’s normals is good.
Ok people for the record this is not an arguement so dont even think it.
LZJ, your only reasons for A-Hibiki arent acurate. All you list is a bunch of stuff that N-groove has too. You say that she has useful set ups to CCs, well N-groove has setups to big combos too. You can combo into her root 3 going my way then do that one super, fuck I forgot it’s name. 
Thats around 10000 easy damage. and you can counter into that same super since you can store shit so fast in N. So the whole damaging combo thing sort-a falls through for you. And you said that she has useful RCs. You’re forgetting that N-groove is just as RC accessable as A. You said she was a good turtle character, well you can turtle on N too. You just have more options incase you need to change up your style when the tables turn. What about counter movement, It works really good with Hibiki. And Small jump. All this gives N-hibiki a slight edge over A. A Hibiki’s still good though.
In the end you have all the same options as A plus more.
I dont wanna’ argue about Sagat, because Sagat is a very versitile character. If you know how to use him then whatever pokes you may have can be used effectively.
Really? I did not know N groove Hibiki could combo a super WITHOUT hittin you.
As far as Ryu being bottom 10, I actually might have overexaggerated. But he is low tier IMO. I think Kim is better than Ryu as well as chars like Mai and Terry.
cheese: to elaborate, geese’s entire game revolves around getting inside and pressuring. that isn’t going to happen against vega. his range with mp won’t allow it. it sounds too simple, but believe me, that mp will shut geese the fuck down. and you’re right, vega is faster than most other charcters and outranges them too. but i was just saying why he beats geese, not everyone else.
snake: standing lk with sagat is really good. stuffs a lot of attacks, including sagat and blanks’s cr fp.
and n hibiki is amazing if you put in the time. but i think a hibiki is just a little better. resets, all those cc set ups, and she still has rc. but what do i know? i like k hibiki. :badboy:
N groove turtles are usually not as effective as A turtles because the subsystems of N groove are designed to get you close to the opponent. i’m pretty sure that was capcom’s point to putting in low jump. breakstock is best used as a rushdown tactic. you break your stock while your opponent’s guard is going down. countermovement is decent but you have to remember that hibiki’s roll isnt that good in the first place. a fast roll like kim or iori is pretty effective but hibiki’s roll is slow vulnerable. even if you counterroll sagat doing cr. fierce and tigersuper he can still hit you. also the way that activation is instant makes a powerful turtling tool. when youre guard is going you can activate to keep yourself alive and with hibiki’s activate it can be scary for rushers since theyre so close to hibiki. if theyre point blank range you can now mix them up with a low lk or with a RH throw. N groove can combo into super yes i forgot to add that but its not as good i dont think. activation is by far better than level 3 super. we’re allowed to argue but only over the game.
K geese beats vega in any groove. Just Defend and low jump really break his game down. vega does have ways of dealing with low jump. he has standing RH and he has RC roll claw. the RC roll claw’s first hit does trash damage and his standing RH usually trades with low jumps unless you anticipate it. geese in K groove has low jump RH and low jump MK. both monster moves and when traded with vega’s attacks do more damage so it is indeed good to trade. just defend really screws up cr. MP. after a cr. MP try to sweep if youre in range. if vega hit you with the first part of the cr. MP and you JDed it right you can sweep him. if you JDed the second part and are close enough you can make him block the sweep or if youre too far you can st. RH to get in. vega’s guard goes very fast. geese is designed to break guards in K groove. A vega does good against K geese but not good enough IMO. that is what this is though. just my opinion.
RandomSuper…
I think alot of people are overrating Vega due to Ricky being just damn good and having fast ass reflexes. IMO the Vega players that win, are the ones who have excellent reflexes and very very very good knowledge of footsies. And even then, he is tedious as fuck to use.
He has good keepaway with good reflexes but the fact is, unless you are A vega, and have meter, IMO, you can play risky vs Vega. Because guess what, if you take smart risks and guess wrong, you’ll get RHed out of a jump or even airthrown or slided on a whiffed sweep. But whereas if you land you strategic risk, vega loses like anywhere between 1/4 a life bar to 80% plus another knockdown to get back on him and kill him off. So weighing these options… I’d say the match is in Geese’s favor because of that. The reason A Vega is the best Vega is because Vega is usually jiggling around when he is at his best… so A Vega can do good damage without having to charge. Other Vegas… have to sit to do real damage… thereby reducing Vega’s effectiveness on the ground game.
Also as LZJ said, Geese has ability to punish mindless cr MPs, so you actually have to use them to punish whiffs. Also Geese’s st RH is so much better than it seems. It helps him get in and setup JDs and which continue the offense. Think of Geese st RH like Rock’s qcb LP/MP type pokes.
Sagat’s s.lk sucks? LMAO it’s probably the single most dominating normal in the game.
man, BAS using A-Honda just proves how damn good Honda is. No damaging CC at all, just pure RC cheese. And he switches out A-Sak for Honda.
cheese: i’m not even talking about ricky, although i heard a bunch of stuff about that from people at evo. playing casual, i notice geese just loses to vega. you’re right about being able to dish out huge damage if vega fucks up, but in my experience, those chances are few and far between. just getting a knockdown on him can be a serious pain. maybe it’s just my playing style though so i won’t act like i’m jesus with geese.
and i think p and c vega are by far more annoying. especially p. i hate that bitch.
that doesn’t seem too surprising though. his sakura has always been his weakest point on his team, then his blanka and bison always picked up the slack. this way, you almost GUARANTEE his second character to come in with meter, and honda can grind down the fight so that he either takes out the opponent’s first character or leaves him with little life.
what i found most surprising about the switch out was his team order, A-honda/BLANKA/r2 bison. i would imagine blanka would be last instead of bison. any ideas on why that is? BUKTOOTH, you said sawada could take evo with A-zangief/blanka/bison, any reasons why you think that team order is stronger (ie blanka/bison instead of bison/blanka)? maybe it’s because people play A-sakura/bison/blanka IN THAT ORDER in japan, so blanka doesn’t have to worry about being chipped to death by sakura. even then, sakura’s custom isn’t really guaranteed against a competent blanka.
peace
When I posted that shit I wasnt including any setup that any Hibiki player may have. And Ryu is mid tier, how is he not? How can you compare him to characters like Kim and Terry? There both Mid tier too. IMO Terry and Kim are UPPER mid.
Once again I have to say that your just bringing stuff up that N has too. You’re bisically saying that you can turtle better on A, because it has less. You have the same basic turtling options on N just as you do on A. You even have a few more attack options incase you need to go on the offensive. And a turtle character shouldnt’ let there GC get so low, but if it does then power up on N and there most likely gonna back up. If they dont then you can get a super on them. Bow down to the power of a Lv.3 to a lv.1! 
IMO, Vega is good no matter what! I was just as suprised as you when Ricky Ortiz used him at Evo and did that good with him. And Vega isnt a very hard character. Like you said, all you need is some good knowledge of footsies and a few other elements that a little practice can overcome. Vega isnt very difficult to learn at all.
I didnt’ know that. I’ll try it out. I guess you learn something new everyday.
Ok, it may be better than I though it was, but the best??? How is it better than c.fp and Sak’s s.RH and most of the other pokes in CvS2. Please tell me you were overexagerating.
sagat’s standing lk is really good for a few reasons.
-Its ridiculously fast - fast enough to avoid being punished afterwards, and fast enough to avoid being RCed thru.
-it hits like 1/4 of the screen
-it has great priority. beats out athenas c. fierce and trades with cammy’s hk. infact, its crucial against those two.
and A hibiki > any other hibiki. being able to do damage almost for free with activation just makes her much better than any other hibiki. level 3 is nice, but you wont be landing it much against the better players.