RC double reppuken is a good antiair and useful but i’m just sayin at the range you would use that as an antiair you can just JD or parry. its nice to have but i’d rather go with the parry against low jumps because of the level3 stored super K groove’s JD vs lowjumps arent as good but still get geese out of a bad mess against blanka sagat and all the other lowjump monsters. RC counter on the other hand is just horrible. maybe you didnt know but when you RC a counter you’re “unhittable” which also means you cant counter. atleast for the first say 17-18 frames of the move that youre RCing. all of geese’s coutners are 50 full frames 18 of the actual “counter” and 32 of the recovery where you cant pull in anymore attacks. the “unhittible” time and the counter frames are identical so it renders the move almost useless. i think it is possible to pull in the attack on the last few frames of geese’s counter because roll canceling adds 1 or 2 frames to your move. thats the time you can actually see the beginning parts of the roll. but i’ve never tried this out because i dont expect any good players to attack the later frames of my counter. people would have to be pretty bad to see the counter then attack into it. the point of geese’s counter is to make up for his lack of a good reversal move like sagat’s tiger uppercut, guile’s flashkick or even zangief’s SPD. the best time to use these moves with geese’s counter included is for the initial startup. geese’s counter is 0 frame startup so its good for wakeup’s and ±0 moves. if you wanna use geese just use sagat. hes like the good geese. ok i’ve posted too much this month. now i’ll go back to hording my knowledge like kxcj hates.
Yeah your right, I must have forgot, what the fuck was I thinking about the counters when I posted, only the shadow knows:lol:. It is definetley good on wake up, Ex: blanka EC electricity. Yes I have to admit it but parrying is definetley better, I usually just activate AA CC low jumps on reaction 8300+ usually. (On Sagat Its Cake) Anyway I couldn’t give up Geese for Sagat, Geese is my favorite char. Besides, Geese doesnt do awesome against sagat, but he doesnt exactly get owned either. I dont know I just like Geese. “Represent where ya from Geese f+Fp till I die.”
Fight On:nunchuck:
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:tup: hey u dont have to give up sagat for geese… Just play them both. Those are 2 characters that give out alot of hurt real fast…
Too Bad I find Sagat boring, or else maybe I would play him. Then again a lot of character get a lot more intresting and fun in A. No, I aint playing him F that. High Mid and lower for life bitches.:tup:
Id never give up Sagat for Geese anyway, he’s my all time favorite SNK character, in the game for that matter, even if I start to die a lot with him, I’ll die trying.:tup:
PS: sorry to go off topic.
Fight On:nunchuck:
Damn, this guy’s posting serious for once? :wow:
C-Geese is that bad against Sagat and Blanka huh? His d.HP is really good anti-air when he’s right under people. I noticed he can punch Sagat’s extended leg when Sagat jumps from too far as well.
At that midrange/halfscreen distance though, the d.HP is a really awkward anti-air to use. Not just Sagat and Blanka, but even characters like Nakoruru with her early j.HK give Geese a hard time. I think this is the range Capcom wanted you to use the Geese counter to stop jump-ins. To be honest, I prefer characters who have an invincible shoryuken to deal with things like that though. Walking back and forth, messing with the timing to get fully extended or extremely late d.HP, and knowing which characters you can and can’t do this move against, Geese’s d.HP anti-air feels just as, if not more awkward to use than Guile’s d.HP at times.
I need another top tier C-groove character since C-Guile has really bad match-ups against Vega, Mai, Yamazaki, and runaway Rolento. I’ve tried C-Rolento myself, but I’m not very good with him. Since I don’t want to be using Geese if he’s not in the groove for his full pontential, I’m looking at Vega, Honda, Haohmaru. (although Haohmaru sucks since he has no far anti-air as well and even worse, no reversal) Screw it… pick Blanka and Som D that shit zap
note: I played lzj last week and the stupid scrub combos Geese level 3 off EVERY SINGLE opening he gets. Got touched by a single jab when get was raged? Oops, you’re dead. Tried to Tiger Uppercut when he jumped in? Oops, you’re dead too. Gonna turtle up? Guard break from full to empty in five seconds… damn, I died again? It felt like the cheapest thing ever, so that’s why I’ve been curious about Geese these past few days.
:lol: I admit, when I was talking about rugal, I had no idea what the f?ck I was talking about, I should have just asked combofiend with my dumbass. Although he feels Rugal is a okay battery, which surprised me, he knows some crazy shit with him.
Edit: I dont ride the nuts, I just dangle from them a little. :tup: :lol:
Fight On:nunchuck:
geese’s d. fierce beats limbs from jumps that arent on top of him but people jump in empty on geese all the time. if they bait out of high counter, or down fierce they can seriously hurt geese by landing and doing a high damage combo of their choice. i prefer JD rather than guessing what their going to do. also you can lowjump mp. its the perfect air to air move when theyre a little higher than you. beats everything any character has that i know of. against nakaruru you just have to use the downfierce late. its the point where the fist is at the same height as his head that it beats those high priority jumpins.
kang guile doesnt lose to those characters for free or anything. you just need to save up your sonic booms for when they jump in. if you throw sonic booms against people with fast jumps like vega, mai, and yamazaki they’ll just jump over and use a high priority air move like vegas j. hp, rh, mai’s j. rh, and yamazaki’s j. mk and rh. guile does NOT lose to mai and yamazaki on the ground. low mk and st. rh are all you need to deal with them. whenever they try to jump while youre not throwing a sonic boom just throw it as an antiair. if they get knocked down follow up with another so they wakeup into it and roll next to it to get more guardcrush on them. vega’s probably the worst vs guile. you really need that level3. down mk stuffs vega’s down mp sometimes. it happens when youre kick is out and vega leans into the kick. mai’s fans are a bitch too but just keep jumping straight up. this is such a turtle fight.
geese is dope. but use sagat.
i gave up geese cuz i get fucked up by sagat =/
i just don’t see why A-todo is the best character nobody plays. other than his damaging CC, 50/50 mixup after a low jab, and crouching fierce for AA, i don’t see what actual footsie tools he can use.
up close he is very strong considering he can use crouching mk, tiger knee’d waves, crouching mp, grab setups, etc. but from farther away, he doesn’t have much to actually get in with. his jump is too slow, relying on forward + mk for the knockdown is extremely risky considering if your opponent randomly decided to jump straight up, they will land on todo with a fat combo. RC waves are too risky because they are 50, 53, and 56 frames respectively so they are rollable/punishable. his crossup defense is really weak also. maybe i’m forgetting something big here, but he doesn’t have many options against a character with good zoning abilities (aka any decent character in cvs2).
peace
That’s what I said too, since characters like Sagat have a superior midranged/half screen game over him and Todo also has poor anti-air when people are right on top of him (like a Sagat j.LK). These punks here all seem to like him though, so hey, who’s to argue?
maki is the best character nobody uses. :tup:
I’m of the firm belief that N-groove Yamazaki is the best version of Yamazaki.
What do you guys think about N - Sakura?
I think she’s very meh. N isnt a good groove for her at all, she’s not an aggressive character, and is much better with stored super.
i think N sakura is great. shes pretty much good with any RC groove and lowjump RH is really good too. i think N sakura is better than C and almost as good as A. lowjump grab/level3 hotfoot super is really good. and she can rush a lot of characters for free. shes upthere in N.
Yeah I figured she was pretty good. I’ve just never seen anyone use her except in C and A groove. I agree that she’s better in N then C.
chikyuu played N-sakura/raiden/r2 rolento in evo2k2, his match with peachy and liquid metal is on the DVD. yea, low jump RH is good because it has a weird angle that makes it hard to DP on reaction (like terry or yamazaki’s low jump RH). sakura with RC is always strong, and sakura’s fast roll improves her counter roll viability to get shorts into DP, which leads to mixups that can turn the tide of the match. i’d use her as a battery if you’re going to use her. break stock into fireball super would be good for jump ins from the front that her crouching fierce won’t reach.
peace
PS- so why is todo the best character nobody plays again, even though his mid-range footsie game sucks (see earlier post)?
ehh… best things he has at midrange are far s.HK and RC waves, i know what you mean though, his sweep is at least usable, other than that, just try to stay within c.MK range so you can chip that shit down lol
before i start i’ll say that i’m not a firm supporter of paragraphs. i think the best character that nobody plays is haohmaru. hes definately over todo where i play. people really underestimate his DP. it has no invincibility but it reaches so high that people cant hit him when they jump in. even attacks that reach down like sakura’s RH dont trade with DP at the right time. also haohmaru’s ground game is so good because of his 2 frame far reaching low jab. when you push people out of close range and into his standing mp poke range which i’m also gonna add CANNOT be rolled against on reaction unless you have a fast rolling character. haohmaru’s st. mp frame data is 8 frames of startup, 6 frames of the hit, and 22 frames of recovery. everybody’s roll is atleast 29 frames long. that means if they can react to the standing medium punch right before the hit at about say frame 7 haohmaru’s only gonna be in that move for another 29 frames. the fastest rolls in the game are iori and kim. they both have 27 frames of invulnerability and 2 frames of recovery on their lower body. that means most likely they’ll only be able to make you guess between a throw or an uppercut or if people are more skilled a combo starting from a fast jab or short. the only way you’ll be able to hit haohmaru with iori is if you roll by the 5th frame of his standing mp. iori’s roll is 29 frames long and his jab takes 2 frames to hit. that means that haohmaru’s 36 frame long standing mp will be vulnerable for another 2 frames after iori completes his roll. juts enough to get hit by iori’s fast jab. roll cancel is a different story. theres a lot of roll cancels in the game and i cant give specific examples about what can be used against them. i’ll just name some popular ones. RC rekka ken with iori and kyo. you can punish these with crouching jab. it hits before they can cancel their -5 recovery into another RC move. RC sonic boom or other fireballs. probably best to jump in when you see this. sonic boom definately because when he lets go of the sonic boom he cant beat you out of the air again because none of his moves beat haoh’s air fierce. only RC moves will and guile needs charge. as for other characters like ryu and ken their DPs will most likely trade with the j. fierce if you do it at the right point. and if you jump vs shotos early enough especially ken since his fireball is slower you’ll probably hit them with the fierce because their fireball recovery is nowhere near as good as guiles. which works out perfectly for you because he cant do shit without a charge when you jump in. but ken’s probably gonna give haoh a hard time with RC funky kicks ( i try to punish the recovery with st. mp) and antiair upkick super. but yeah theres like too many fucking people to explain so i’ll stop there. but still standing mp is a great poke because its far fast and has priority. i get a lot of counterhits with it. maybe i’m not outprioritizing but rather beating them to the “hit” but if thats the case then i’ll take that as a pro too. aside from his low jab and his standing mp he also has jumping fierce. this move is like yamazaki’s jumping RH because it hits so low with so much priority. it makes DPing it almost impossible because he’s never low enough to be hit by the initial and invincible part of the DP. the best you’ll get is a trade thats most likely in your favor. 1600 points of damage thats like geese’s face smasher punch(f+fierce) or sagat’s standing fierce. its the best damage for a normal in the game (excluding haohmaru’s close and far standing fierce 1800 and 3000 respectively). the only good RC move i’ve found for haoh is jab overhead slash. its his only quick special but its almost obsolete because you have low jab. you can also RC his fake DP( i call it fake cuz its not invincible anywhere). but his DP isnt meant to stop attacks from infront of him the tools for that are low jab and standing mp. his DP wont get beat out of a jumpin either. dont believe me? try it. the only things that beat it are the level 3s in the air like yun and kim. any other physical contact with this move from air to ground just gets beat out for the strangest reasons. i dont have a CvS2 game but i do want to try out DP vs sagat’s standing fierce. my hopes for this test are to see if haohmaru has any upperbody invincibility like the beginning frames of honda’s headbutts. i’ve gotten stuffed by low attacks and low meaty attacks on wakeup back when i used to think it was a real DP so i know hes vulnerable below the waist. but maybe the famicom book missed something. or perhaps his hitbox kind of just shrinks when he performs his DP. i dunno somebody please test that for me. sagat’s standing fierce hits pretty high so that little test should prove if hes invulnerable at all or not. another thing about hoahmaru is his fierce punch. most people here will be like “oh that move sucks” or “oh you’ll never connect it” and so forth but this move IS GOOD. just because it has heavy startup and recovery you cant dismiss its usefulness at certain times. you think bison’s gonna wanna wakeup with RC psycho crusher against somebody whos gonna do 3000 damage plus counterhit damage if he gets blocked? how about when you frustrate your opponent by keeping him out and you know he’ll try something desperately unsafe. for examples if you keep cammy out for long enough she’ll probably try cannon drill to get in. if you know its coming dash back when she does it then slash the bullshit out of that cheesy bitch. or maybe bison’s trying to do 1 hit short scissor kick to you but you notice the range is a little too far and that he’ll whiff? get that ring finger of yours ready cuz you gotta punish fast since its a slow move. i would recommend using this move as punishment on whiffed moves with recovery like blanka slide or rock’s elbow charge. most likely you’ll only get a couple of chances to use the move and connect with it but you gotta seize those moments. its not as easy as sagat low mk into super but its still there for you. wow another good haohmaru trait. his dash is fantastic as well. its like rugal’s if you need a comparison. even better i’d say because he dashes farther. one of the perfect setups for a dash throw/dash combo/dash activate/dash super that i use is meaty low mk on wakeup. meaty as possible so we’re talking about almost 11+ frames when they block. after the low mk meaty dash up and do whatever the fuck you want. activate/throw/lowshortlowshortDP/level3/even jumpback if you think they’ll activate out of safety. haohmaru is good ground-to-ground, ground-to-air, and air-to-ground. air to air hes not bad. RH kick stops attacks from a little below you which is pretty good since haohmaru jumps high there isnt anybody to really go over him save a few and his fierce in the air doesnt have much horizontal range. his lowjump back and fierce is an instant overhead on a lot of characters and it does a lot of damage and is pretty safe. i should have added that to the jumping fierce section but i forgot. well thats all i really have to say about him. cant believe i sat here and typed all that shit for you faggots you probably wont even care or understand since this board if filled with morons. anyways goodluck. oh yeah buktooth’s bottom 8 characters thread. dont believe him. haohmaru is a great character. scrub friendly too. if 2 people who know nothing about the game play and 1 chooses haohmaru then i’d bet 100 on the random haohmaru scrub beating the other dude. how can that be lowtier in anyway? =P
LZJ either went insane after Julian beat him to Haohmaru again, is bored out of his mind, or feels like crashing my computer again by writing “bet it” over and over until it fills up 3 pages. 
Haoh has no reliable reversal attack outside of a random super and has no far ranged anti-air attack. No reliable combos outside of low shorts into a jab either, but that’s ok since his game isn’t about rushing you down anyway. Almost 100% zoning/turtling and that’s it. He has some tricks up close with throws, but outside of P-groove, the only thing I ever see him to is pretty much jump up and down with HP, far s.MP , and mash on jabs when you get close. Sounds scrubby, but believe it or not picking Haohmaru can actually make some of the hard matches easy. He’s a good Sakura and Hibiki counter if you ask me.
Just don’t get cornered and/or knocked down and you’re good.
Once people start rushing you down, and you don’t have P-Haohmaru, it’s damn hard to get them off of you, and that’s probably what keeps Haohmaru from being considered one of the top tier guys. Actually, I shouldn’t even be posting, as Julian, Canadians, and Eddie Lee would probably rape me with this stupid character too…
LZJ is awesome with his middle school writing skills and lack of paragraphs and capitalization to make his posts completely unreadable. That is all.
edit: Haohmaru looks to be the total opposite of Buk’s prefered play style, so that’s probably why he doesn’t like him and puts him as bottom eight. The bnb combo off low short is unreliable, and good luck trying to ever land short, short xx super (and not have the super whiff) with him as well. It’s cool that Haoh can jab Iori after the RC Rekkas, but what somebody really needs to do is slash his Morrigan out of the air with fierce and counter his Hibiki with Haoh far s.MP until he changes his mind. :bgrin:
Again, just don’t get knocked down or cornered when you have Haohmaru that’s all. --> crappy, unsafe reversals
Buk’s threads and posts aren’t the only things us faggots should be taking as if it’s the CvS2 bible anyway. I know he didn’t literally tell people to do this, but when he wrote that far s.LK with Sagat was good, a lot of people read that as “SPAM far s.LK”. That’s kind of silly as you should only really ever be using Sagat far s.LK when either A.) you’re in range or B.) you’re a pixel just outside of max range. Same thing with the Sagat vs Cammy match too. He wrote to throw “intelligent low tigers”. Again, a whole lot of us forum scrubs read that as “SPAM low tigers”. What he really should of wrote is, throw low tigers to keep Cammy from advancing on you from the ground but your ultimate goal is to bait her jump so you can dp/super her. Only shitty people like Daigo and whoever took Buk’s Sagat advice the wrong way throw low tigers non-stop at Cammy and never look to do anything else.
Don’t get me wrong, I love it whenever Buk gives advice, as I have learned a lot of new things about the game from that advice myself (and I’m amazed he actually has the patience to talk to some of these random forum peeps at times). I make it a habit to always fully explore the ins and outs, weaknesses and strengths of whatever tactic is in question before ever even thinking about incorporating it into my game though.
Never just assume something is awesome or something is low tier just because, “oh, Buk said so”. That’s only for the people in the special CvS2 club who are the only people on the entire forum who know what they’re talking about (LZJ, Popoblo, Gunter, Buk, and no girls allowed).