The Ongoing Tier Thread

Classic Fighting Games Capcom VS SNK 2
421

so it’s probably a good idea that i dont’ switch out K-sagat and put K-rolento as my anchor. ^^

the reason why i suggested this was because i found a few really good ambiguous mixups, like after punch/kick throws with rolento. since his tripwire is hard to punish. you can do shit like kick throw, scouterhop, c.fwd/s.fierce(ambiguous mixup part) xx super(since you get like 2-3 chances to land this and rolento has a good walking speed to throw people with)
…however delayed recovery and safe fall prevents it from working properly. but safe fall is more risky since i can throw and just super them.

ANYWHO…when i get cornered with K-rolento it’s HARD AS fuck to get out, esp against blanka. now i see why C/A/N is better.

422

C-kim…s.short and s.fierce

423

It’s ok. He’s still the dark horse of CvS2.

424

Haha. Nice.

425

My question was where are the A-Todo players? Sure, anyone that can take 10000 points in a CC deserves a high ranking in theory, but should it be higher than a proven character like C/N Ryu? I dunno about that. I really think Ryu’s ranking’s too low btw.

How verstile is his CCs btw? Anti-air, etc.?

Thanks.

426

Uh… Ryu sucks. He dies to Honda, Sagat, and Blanka. And dying to them without doing any damage whatsoever is basically like not having that char on your team. Not to mention, those 3 chars are all found on every single team in some form or manner. At least Todo can do 10K damage of random activate or activate grab or RC grab etc etc etc. Not only does Todo do more damage, his damage is more guaranteed than Ryu’s when you are up close. Personally, I’d say Buktooth put Ryu too high. Todo also has a good GC CC vs K and P groove. Hence the higher ranking.

427

what about K-ryu vs honda, sagat, blanka?

428

yea yea, keep talking shit kcxj and epsilon, whatever. for the sake of not starting a flame war, i’ll just bite my tongue on this one.

429

IMO K ryu is okay, but the key thing that keeps Ryu from total rape from top tier is the threat of rolling a poke and RC fireballs to actually be able to poke. RC hurricane kick gets him out of realyl shitty situations as well. He loses all those major things in K groove while gaining JDs and more damaging supers. But one major fundamental thing Ryu loses in K groove is ability to damage with a super at his disposal. Even in N groove, a lvl1 may not seem like much, but it gives him a knockdown and a chances to setup an ambiguous crossup. In K groove, if you get raged, you still have to earn your way in before you can land the super. You can be random with the super, but thats nothing solid to go on. Not to mention, damage really doesn’t make up for the fundamental reasons he lost to Sagat and Blanka, which is the ground game. Sagat and Blanka just dominate him on the ground. Honda has a bit tougher time vs K groove, but its nothing incredibly harder. In fact IMO, honda beats K groove just as bad, because now you can’t try to roll his 100 Hand slap RC. If you jump away too late his Hands knockdown. At least you can still escape his 50/50 mixups still.

430

Hey, I figured out Buk’s Hibiki trick for the unpunishable low short combo.

-d.LK, d.LK, d.LK, d.LP xx qcf+MP
Do the d.LK’s as slow humanly as possible but still combo them. So instead of the normal “1-2-3-jab-slash” rhythm the mashers use, you want to use “1—2---3-jab-slash” instead. You let the opponent get fully pushed back from the crouching short that way, and your combo becomes safe.

Now even Bison’s reversal b, f+HK won’t kill you anymore.

To people who still think Hibiki loses to Bison for free, incorporating this trick into their combo habits should improve Hibiki’s place on their tier list considerably.

A well played A-Hibiki is absolute bull---- by the way. Get in your face in then activate d.MK or activate kick throw. It’s ridiculous. If you try to jump away or tech throw, the d.MK (or d.LK) gets you. If you block, you get thrown into free damage. All those fanboy “resets” and everything don’t even matter. Throw into CC, CC then throw, and just Hibiki’s play style in general make her ridiculously hard to fight against.

I have no idea what to do when I have Sagat. Can’t attack her safely and can’t sit back and turtle all day either (because she builds meter to CC in your face). The only thing I can really go for is a strategically placed counter hit crouching fierce. Hibiki is too good of a zoner/turtler to attack her with anything else.

431

Thanks for the tips guys. A-Hibiki is stronger than I thought she was that’s all. Looks like this character has come a long way since the game first came out where she would sit in the corner the entire match then do random CC, a million d.HP’s.

Just wanted to note that Hibiki can make this not work at midscreen. Same reason she can make the reversal Bison Scissors not work. Even near the corner it’s iffy sometimes when she slowly chains three crouching shorts beforehand.

As for other stuff to counter her with, her low fierce is what gets her killed when she’s using it for purposes other than to chop whiffed limbs or as properly ranged anti-air. It’s laggy enough for Sagat to walk forward a little and still have time to punch her with down fierce.

Characters with high jumps like Bison can purposely super jump over Hibiki’s head, see if she whiffs the even more laggy close s.HP, then combo from the back.

Non-low jump Sagat’s should be all about the max range j.HK xx super and the magic down fierces that hit from a ridiculous distance away since Hibiki stuck something out I think. Random rolling to finish the match after she gets scared and wants to RC everything then.

Regardless of anything people can do to counter her, A-Hibiki is definately at the top of this game though. She’s turned into one of those weird characters than nobody uses very often, and when people have to fight against her in tourney, they more often than not have no idea what to do.

432

Yeah, you can do the same thing with Bisons jabs to garuntee a 1 hit short scissors at the end. If you chain them, you gte 2 hits more often than not.

433

What do you think the strongest Geese is?

C-groove:

Pros
-RC Double Reppuken to stop low jump and midrange Sagat j.HK.
-Can store level 3.
-Airblock makes jumping to meet people air-to-air with j.MP safer.
-Slight damage/guard crush boost with three levels.

Cons
-Can’t use level 3 Raging Storm with the LP button. (The advantage of using LP is that you’ll get the anti-air/special move counter whenever you accidently mess up the “pretzel” motion.)
-Although Geese’s dash is really fast, run is arguably better for him.
-Geese’s low jump attacks are really good.
-Poor cross-up defense outside of chicken block.
-Roll is pretty useless.

K-groove:

Pros
-Rushdown beast. It doesn’t even matter that he can’t store the super in this groove.
-Damage/guard crush bonus Geese gets when he’s in K-groove is ridiculous. He gets “touch of death” dizzy combos when he’s raged.
-Low jump attacks get him in for practically free. Low jump MK, HK, and HP.
-Low jump back MK instant overhead.
-Early low jump MP anti-air
-Becomes a threat whenever he jumps. JD Tiger Uppercut, FREE falling j.MK, land Deadly Rave.
-JD gets him out of ambiguous cross-up attacks (the game auto-corrects direction when you JD).

Cons
-Difficulty against Sagat and Blanka jumping perfectly from midrange.

P-groove:

Pros
-Parry, close fierce xx Reppuken.
-All the low jump tactics from K-groove.
-HIGHLY threatening from the air.
-Perfect cross-up defense with option select parry, VDO punch (close s.HP)
-Anti-air parry from the front discourages people from jumping at Geese’s naturally vulnerable distance to some degree.

Cons
-No damage bonus ever from P-groove.

N-groove:

Pros
-Run and low jump.
-Store meter.

Cons
-Rushdown isn’t as strong since people don’t have to worry about mixing up their anti-airs when he jumps.

A-groove:

Pros
-RC Double Reppuken.
-Can chip you to death.

Cons
-No ridiculously damaging and high stun TOD combos.

All the Geese’s have…
-Tank like vitality
-Top tier d.HK and far s.HP whiff punishers
-EXTREMELY high priority and far ranged d.LP
-Super cheap j.MK
-Get in for practially free with far s.HK
-Pie Face! (backwards tiger knee punch)
-The Yo Baby Ugly, POW! punch (f+HP)

434

sagat has a lot of tools to fight her in c/n/k and sagat usually beats hibiki in real play for the sheer fact that one of his combos takes off well more than one of hers. So yeah, hibiki turtling? poke her with stand short, stand forward, low fierce, and LOW TIGER SHOTS. Shit is really good vs. hibiki cause she has to guess whether to jump or not since her roll is slow as fuck and i have yet to play a hibiki that rc slashes on reaction to any fireball without knowing it’s coming. anyways, if hibiki gets risky and throws out slashes or whiffed c. fierces, just roll super her once and she’s almost dead. If she activates custom next to you, first question you ask is how the hell did she get that close, if she does get that close, just block low and try to watch for the throw. It’s hard to tech but it’s better than eating a standing combo. if you have low jump you can low jump rh on her a few times which makes it harder for her to throw out strongs gets you the ability to get within c. fierce range easily. anyways, sagat vs. any character, heres my strategy.

PROTIP: Punch that mothafucka in the nose.

435

I assume this is C groove Sagat, because I think N groove Sagat beats Hibiki pretty well. As far as C groove Sagat, IMO, its best to place strategic fireballs. If she starts RC qcf P against FBs. It’s important to start whiffing stuff so its not that easy to react. Also, if she is looking for a FB, walkup and low forward and XX into super if you see it hit, generally this isn’t too tough on CH. Also use st LK to prevent her from whoring cr LP/MP. Punishing a st MP whiff is hard but do able. Hibiki vs Sagat is basically a risk reward match IMO. She can RC slash, but each time she tries, she is risking losing the match. And if she isn’t RC slashing, it opens up rest of Sagat’s game. Also strategically jump straight up and down and at ranges where if you stick out a j RH, she has to cr FP, if you don’t stick it out, she whiffs. Because when she whiffs this, you get free cr FP, lvl 2 or 3 tigershot. Also when she doesn’t have full meter, feel free to roll a little liberally at ranges where you are outside of cr LK range when you recover. She has to be smart with roll punisher. Cuz cr LP XX slash, can punished with a lvl3 super. So she has to use other buttons, often they either do cr LP XX super or whiff their cr LK, which gets hit roll super. Thats about all I know in this matchup.

436

1st K
2nd P
3rd C and A

S and N geese has practically no uses that outshine the good grooves.

storing supers isnt a big deal for geese because he doesnt really play for anything besides the guardcrush and usually when you get it somebody will get dizzy and die anyway. C and A have RC double reppuken for a far antiair. K and P have JD and parry which is probably better. the problem with C and A is that they have no way to beat sagat and blanka. K and P have their frame adjusting abilities to keep them close and let them get their moves out. but if you cant do raging storm on reaction then you shouldnt play geese unless its A groove. you have to see even the fastest jumpins to punish them with a 50-60% super.

437

p geese over c geese ? why is that

438

C geese is good but cant beat a lot of characters while P geese can beat any character even though he can be inconsistent. if you’ve ever tried jumping in on a sagat or blanka with a lvl3 you’ll want the parry much more than the airblock. but chickenblock into low RH is really good with C geese vs some jumpins that his low fierce wont reach. its all my opinion though. i play C geese and P geese and if you have P geese as your user and always leave him with a super he gets pretty nasty. parry into low mk into deadly rave or raging storm on jumpins are things that he needs. theres also a million situation where people swing at geese like after they block standing RH, after you dash in you can press fwd + lk and option select that shit and stop throws with the fastest lk in the game, also after they block then jump over his low RH xx reppuken, and people will be afraid to attack geese in the air with their regular antiair since he can parry into super. just a bunch of level3 openings when you have parry make geese really good. hes probably one of the best P characters. as for C he doesnt stand to gain that much more. level2 raging storm is garbage because the invincibility runs out right before the first hit of the storm. it trades with jumpins all the time unless you do it early. low jump is good for geese since his jump is kinda on a bad arc. no matter where he jumps from he seems to land on a tigeruppercut. RC isnt that good with geese either the only thing i see it good for is jumpins that are too far for cr. fierce to hit. going through fireballs with jaiken is really good but only if it doesnt hit the person. the best is when you go through ken’s fireball and dont perform the 3 punches but instead you do cr. mk into deadly rave. but thats inconsistent so forget that. parry and JD are just as good. even though C is better than P i think the perks he gets from low jump and parry are better than C.

439

p geese is good but K geese is just cheap… :crybaby:

440

I agree good shit, but I disagree with RC not being that good with geese, you can RC double reppuken as your anti-air. I had a feeling that this was possible but C.F confirmed it for me. At times i can go though sonic booms with RC jai-eh-ken as well. RC counter is okay but not that great, except for the fact that if they hit you and you guessed wrong you have a better chance at blocking the next attack or try to set-up another counter. I still agree that P and K geese is better hands down.

Edit: Gotta love the “YO FACE IS GAY, BAHH!” Punch (f+fp)

Fight On:nunchuck: