Instant SRK has to go. It breaks the whole game, try to do any sort of combo (a lot of Orge combos have this) where they do not ‘truly’ combo and Ryu can SRK right out of it, heck im tempted to watch a bunch of Ryu matches and look at their inputs and see them mashing SRK.
I did that, and Lol’d almost all ryus mash DP when they are being attacked or in block string.
The fact the a DP can DP something is not bad at all, that’s what DP’s do.
In think what you are Zeroing in on is the rolling reversal window Capcom implemented in SF4 that carries over to here. In the past, to DP something you had to hit the reversal window, which was usually only a few frames. This meant you had to, to some extent, know that a gap was coming and input the entire DP motions.
In this game, if you keep mashing on it, the window will stay open. In addittion, the window is bigger anyways. These also games have a ton of different input shorcuts which have the unintendid consequence of letting you DP from a crouching position. If you look at the DP motion, you have to hit forward and stand up. The reason for this is that if your timing is wrong, you would get caught by a frame trap (rendered moot by the rolling and large reversal window). Also, you had to stand. This mean, that by doing a string such as cLP, cLK you would check against DP mashing because they would get hit by the cLK. Now, you can do a DP from the crouching position, so that doesn’t matter either.
It’s exacerbated even more in SFxT by other factors. First, the tekken characters don’t have chainable light attacks. Meaning that most of them don’t have any real blockstrings to speak of outside of their tekken strings, which are not very good on the whole. Second, you can tag cancel DP’s for only one bar. This makes alot of the DP’s very safe, (not all), and also lets the other guy to huge amounts of damage off the DP (usually about 400-500). Not only is this a shit ton of damage (for off a DP or otherwise), but it is safer, and more damage than you would have gotten off whatever mixup you just got DP’d out of.
but the imput window means baiting out dp’s is even easier , hell even you block and they tag out alpha counter than , and it gets real bad for them
not saying its a good thing i’ve hated it for ages , just saying there are work arounds
if i play ryu online i will always cut shit short even just to check , and once they know your looking for it you can do what you want
You shouldn’t HAVE to cut your shit short because your offense sucks and DP’s rape the FFFFUUAAACK out of everything for 500,000,000 damage for one bar.
no but its all part of traning your opponent
Droppes from 7.6k to 5.8k after switching to Poison… either I’m playing her totally wrong, or she’s just really that bad against the “high tiers”
I’m betting on her being really bad, but he/she is my favorite character in this game so fuck it… 
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Yeah, you can bait it. But the cost of failure is way too high. The purpose of a DP is to break pressure. It’s an emergency button. In this game, you can kill someone at half life off a DP with alarming consistency.
You can Alpha counter to deal with the Safe DP>Tag thing, but that’s not even great since you now have to devote two bars to defeating a (usually) one bar tactic.
So yes, I agree that there are things you can do. I just don’t think that excuses the bad design.
As an example, BB used to have this problem. Arksys nerfed the shit out of those DP’s so they didn’t lead to huge damage.
Well if you’re switching to her, chances are you’re not going to be as effective with her. It probably does have a lot to do with her Ken/Ryu and Kazuya match-ups though. :rolleyes:
i agree with most of this , except the meter spending thing , even more so in a game with gems
i’ll happily piss away 2 bars to do this, even more so because most people have forgotten the counters are even in the game, losing half life and having a tatic cut off from them deals quite a blow
but at the same time im pretty reckless ,and i dont really play to win
shrugs
Then get rid of his normal anti-air c.hp. He should not have 2.
This thread is a scrubfest. Plenty of legitimate reasons to dislike this game and people are complaining that DP is a good anti-air. smh
I’m really surprised to see people complain about anti-airs… they’re probably as weak in this game as they’ve been in any non-parry SF game. They get beaten out by jumpins and air tatsus more than ever before. Seriously, play Ryu and try to DP a jumping Ken… it’s almost impossible. Sure, they lead to more damage (sometimes), but that’s the name of the game… all jabs in this game lead to 300 or more damage too. Just seems like particularly sour grapes to me, I dunno.
I also tend to not really care about getting DPed anymore… I dunno, maybe it’s just me. If you’re gonna take the chance that I’m not going to block, or backdash, or you can react to holes in pressure strings (that NEED to exist, or else Heihachi and Hugo would be unstoppable) that I can easily stop early and watch you fly into the sky, then good for you, take your damage. If I block, I can spend 2 bars to your 1 and do 400 damage to BOTH your characters. Where are you going to use that net loss of 1 bar anywhere else? Gonna use an EX move and do 100-150 extra damage to 1 character in a combo later?
Sure you have to spend 2 bars to “defeat a 1 bar tactic”, but your reward is HUGE and is the best use of that 1 extra bar in the whole game.
Also, think about the SF4 metagame, where really only Seth with 2 bars can DP with impunity anymore. Offense is still creative, but is designed to specifically beat DP characters now. In this game, the punishment for a whiffed or blocked DP (even with “safe” tag) is really severe, even in month 1… much more so than even raw ultra in SF4. Give it some time, offense will be crafted to destroy defensive DPs in due time.
Scrub level in this thread is absolutely amazing
WHY CAN’T I JUMP NONSTOP FROM HALF SCREEN?? THIS IS CHEAP BULLSHIT NERF RYU CAPCOM
If you complained about his frame advantages, dash cancel pressure, and safe sweep someone might listen to you, but you pretty much sound like a moron when you say ryu is “broken” because he has a dragon punch. Jesus christ
Can someone explain why they feel Ryu needs nerfing? IMO the only reason you need to nerf a character is because they have something that is brain dead, not because they have something that is good. What about Ryu is brain dead? Dash-canceled normals are universally negative on block, cancels into joudan either leave him at minus frames (LK, MK) or leave a big gap in between the normal and the joudan that he can be hit out of (HK). His anti-air is good, but everyone should have solid anti-air rather than taking it away from him. Zoning with fireballs takes a ton of skill as in any game. His pokes are good but can be whiff punished. As usual, he seems like a strong character that takes a lot of skill to play well. Why would you nerf a character like that rather than buffing everyone else?
Ryu is braindead, not rufus braindead but braindead still. Doesn’t need any nerfs though.
So I gave the game another chance, after a 2 weeks pause. Two online matches.
The first, I started to have hope again in mindgame possibilites, analysis and rythm control. But after seeing my opponent mashing his low/overhead specials and finally beat me to it, I lost it : I went to full jab-jab-jab-combo attempt. Wait for wakeup, jab-jab-jab-combo attempt. Oh look it delivered ! I was also sad for my opponent to see him trying to build cool moves and specials, but always being interrupted by my jab-jab-jab-combo attempt.
Second match, I was so bored that I got loose and didn’t even search to win. After that, I turned my Xbox off, depressed to see such a waste of potential.
I guess that Capcom already inserting paid DLC but still letting that online sound bug, one freaking month after release, didn’t help at all.
Ryu is like AE fei long, not something particular that stands out as ridiculously broken, he just has everything and its all mostly safe and can lead into easy damage. He’s top tier, but you can’t pin it down to one reason. Scrubs hate him because he can anti-air and zone with projectiles and they can’t handle it. Good players hate the frame advantage and safe offense along with having every tool.
This was partly directed at me, so I feel the need to respond.
DP’s should be invulnerable, and should be a good AA. I have no problem with someone AAing someone, tag canceling, and getting huge damage. That damage bothers me when it’s being created through a defensive situation (such as DPing through an offensive string), especially since alot of these DP+Tag’s are safe on block.
The big caveat is alpha counters. You can blow up a DP+Tag with an Alpha Counter + Tag. But this has two big issues:
- Not all characters can combo after their alpha counter + Tag making this something of a catch all against those characters.
2)It takes 2 bars to beat a one bar tactic. I think my point on this was misunderstood. If you have the two bars it is absolutely one of the best uses of meter I can come up with. But what if you don’t have two bars… Then once again, there is a pseudo-catch all, and you can’t really apply an offense. This also can cause other problems. Look at Hugo for example. Hugo needs to have at least one bar in the tank, or he is almost totally non-threatening. This makes spending 2 bars for that punish a problem in the long run.
I want to reiterate. I have no problem with DP’s, or even the mash friendly reversal window and shortcuts. I don’t agree with those decisions, but they don’t really fundamentally change the DP, bait or attack, situation. What I do have a problem with is the potential damage and safety of these defensive options.
You guys are insane. If you’re getting Anti-Aired so often by Ryoooo’s “OP” Shoryuken then maybe you shouldn’t be so obvious about jumping in. And if you’re attacking someone, if you think they’re going to DP, block. Duh. And since WHEN did reversals in BlazBlue deal a million damage outside of Jin’s Shoryu D? HMMMMMMM? Please don’t tell me that Ragna’s DP did like a million damage and garbage like that. It does not. It never did.
I can’t believe some of the stuff I’ve read…
“REMOVE INVINCIBILITY ON RYU’S DP?”
It’s called a DP for a reason. Christ.
What next, remove his fireballs because you find it difficult to jump over them?
Lolz I remember like for the first week people were complaining that DP’s were nerfed so much.
Fast Forward.
Now people are complaining that DP’s are OP.
Good going, geniuses.
I also remember reading how dudes preferred the SF X TK wakeup system because the SF4 system was too powerful.
They they talked you’d think everyone in SF4 was Akuma or Seth or something like that.
Right.