“If you did not play pre-SF4 games, your opinion has no credibility” does not imply that if you played pre-SF4 games, your opinion is automatically credible. Learn to logic.
That’s… not what Jamp was saying at all.
mawor~ i facepalm’ed at the logic of some people…im slowly learning to not care as much anymore.
I haven’t been a member for too long…however i’ve always watched the scene develop…well since early 2K4. however im oblivious to the whole love hate relationship with pre and post 2K9’ers…and at this point i think it would be best if i didnt know.
this thread was made for no matter how retarded the rant, complaint, justification in not linking the game was…it could be posted here…and as much as i dislike that…its w/e i deal with it(idk how but i do). People who actually like this game, who are well informed about this game…will cringe at the very sight of some of these comments…for more then one reason but…at the end of the day, they have the right to post stupid shit here.
Well it looks horrible visually, but I’m enjoying some of the models, and Capcom put every character I asked for in the game ( lol even Ogre ). Visuals aren’t really important, and this game will most likely be popular which will ensure rich healthy competition, which is the most important thing by far.
And yeah I agree it cant be worse then MVC3, this game might actually turn out be enjoyable
wheres megaman?
He said that me saying the opinions of ST players are not automatically credible was ironic given that I also said people who haven’t played pre-SF4 games competitively do not have credible opinions, i.e. implying that those views are mutually exclusive, which they are not.
Projectiles that matter?
Throws that matter?
Anti Airs that matter?
Positioning that matters?
Fancy system mechanics don’t add depth when the primary rules (SF4+chains) clash with each other, causing you to lose the very basics along the way.
Sounds like Alpha 3.
I understand and appreciate that simply adding more mechanics to a game doesn’t necessarily make it deeper. I get that.
My point was that Capcom is at least putting the effort in. Capcom may be getting things wrong but hating on a game you haven’t played when it’s clear Capcom are TRYING to make the game a more engaging experience can’t be coming across positively to them, not to mention that it doesn’t make much sense as an attitude to adopt.
Fireballs DO matter in this game. Guile can feint his sonic booms now. Let that sink in.
Throws suck, yes, but the game has a whole host of new options for opening up opponents and landing damage. Maybe throws don’t need to be important in this game? Noone’s played the game enough yet to determine this, so we’ll see.
Anti airs? They’re in the game. There are both invulnerable specials and aa normals as well as alpha counters now. We’ll see how jumps are dealt with as the game evolves.
Positioning? With regards to how they affect footsies I can see your concern here. Everyone seems to walk way too slowly. However, that’s not to say footsies aren’t important. There are a lot of players who’ve said that, if anything, it’s more important in this game as the risks and rewards are much higher.
The game needs to mature and develop. Most concerns simply disappear as people adapt to the way the game is played.
Put effort in gimmicks to make a game sell<>Put effort in making a good competitive game.
I’m not hating on anything. I’m just criticizing how thing seem like from what I know so far.
Hey, why boycott OTHER companies who put out good games just because you don’t know their characters? That’s question you should be asking people.
1st you decide to play SFXT because of reasons totally unrelated to the mechanics (brand name, popularity in the western scene) THEN you start making up reasons to justify it. No, I want you to show me why it’s awesome compared to all the other fighting games we could be playing instead.
With the puny damage from fireballs, chip, and anti airs compared to what you can do with a hit-confirmed poke, who cares really?
Who needs a functioning basic tool to break through defense, one of the most vital functions of the genre? Is that what you are asking?
No doubt that SOME characters will have ok anti airs but in general the fact that people jumped on each other all the time on the streams says a lot.
It’s as deep as a 3S mirror chun, since you can hit confirm long pokes into big combos. Chains combined with the basic SF movement throws the logical risk reward scenarios out of the window.
There are some things that are simply bad signs from day one, especially when its concerning the very basics.
hi there
good point. you shouldn’t boycott other companies at all - you should play games you find appealing and fit well to your tastes. not every game is going to suite your needs - if you enjoy the Marvel versus series maybe you wont enjoy SF2 Turbo, for example. that’s not to say either is a bad game, some people just prefer the way one game feels over another. this part, i completely agree on.
deciding to play SFXT simply because “its an SF game” is a bad idea, but only if you take the game seriously as a competitive game. some people just “want to play a new SF game”, and i dont see why they should be bashed for that. this may not be a perfect example, but there are competitive smash bros players who think Brawl is a piece of shit - that doesn’t mean people who play it casually are making bad decisions. any fighting game can be fun without taking it completely seriously, but this is all an entirely different matter.
what’s really important is that the game engine isn’t shit, nor are any of the features (besides Pandora) that are extremely close to being useless. taking away the whole brand name part of it, you have a game that does require footsies (possibly even more than a normal SF game because of tech rolling, making each of your decisions matter more rather than giving you safe 50/50 with no down side) and a game that gives you unique and interesting combos through a system that hasnt been even close to explored fully. the amount of potential that system alone has is enough to make the game feel fun, to figure out your most damaging combos off a hit confirm, for example.
another feature, which im sure would come up if i didnt mention it, is gems. most people think gems are useless - which i can completely see since they offer little change and dont affect any core elements of the game aside from faster walk speeds and meter gain. some people would even argue that these changes are big and that there’s in-depth strategy with gems that could lead to more damaging combos and all that noise. either side could be true, we don’t know the potential of gems, but the point is that they’re heading in the right direction. if they had made gems any more powerful than they already are, or made them change core elements of the game, it would’ve been a step too far and made everyone lose their shit because OH GOD THIS ISNT SF2 TURBO AT ALL. it was a safe move - just like with pandora.
the ultra meter in SF4 is an example of going “a step too far”. if they had added pandora mode to SF4 instead of ultra, we would’ve complained less about it and a lot less people would’ve strayed away from the game. pandora, though not the most practical mode, is a step down from ultra which is a good thing if you ask me.
this is a bit ridiculous.
fireballs should never be your main game plan. it’s not like all you’re supposed to do with ryu is literally throw fireballs. if you did that you would get punished all day and, y’know, die. fireballs are a poke and a way of dealing safe damage to your opponent from full screen. in any SF game, the point of fireballs is to bait your opponent to do something unsafe (like jump) and then punish (shoryuken). they may do less damage than usual, but they are still a tool for poking. low forward xx fireball with ryu, for example, is a good poke because it’s safe and creates distance. if there are better, safer pokes to do at that distance then you should use them, but that doesn’t make low forward xx fireball completely useless. infact, a huge use to it is that it’s a special move that’s relatively safe and does chip.
also it doesn’t matter how much damage your poke into combo does if you can’t land it. i could chuck plasma and anti-air you all day, no matter how small the damage, if you just continue to use the same plan of trying to land that poke. the sign of a good player is recognizing patterns and fucking those patterns up. tekken characters having wave dashes and anti-fireball moves changes a lot of things but we won’t know how much until we get the game and let the meta grow.
this is another thing i agree with, throws are an important part of footsies and not being able to rely on them so much against someone who just blocks all day is pretty annoying. but, on the other hand, this could both change or we could have better options to break guard in this (for example the tekken characters’ many high/low mixups). i would much rather have a longer throw distance, but if that doesn’t end up happening it’s not exactly a game-breaking thing. it’s bad, yes, but i wouldnt not buy a game just because the throw distance is small.
any anti-air that works as an anti-air will work as an anti-air. rufus’ c. palm thing still works, ryu’s c. fierce and shoryuken still work, ibuki’s c. fierce still works, etc etc. not every character is going to have a solid anti-air anyway because that’s just not how characters work. for example, hugo never had a solid anti-air. ever. now he’s got ex backbreaker. so they’re at least giving characters tools to keep people out of the air, they just haven’t been used yet because people don’t want to take risks this early - that’s why you see a lot of ryu/ken. people stick to the basics.
there are no doubt long pokes - but not every character has those, infact very few do. vega was top tier in ST because of his range and that’s the same reason he’s top tier here. any character with long pokes are going to have an advantage, but that doesn’t take footsies out at all. you can still use an invincible attack against those pokes, or ume shoryu them. most people who are used to games where long pokes can be avoided (SF3, SF4, etc) are going to struggle because they’d rather just get out of the situation but im sure people who play ST know whats up.
simply put, things change. day 1 build isn’t the same as the build that was shown on armshouse, for example. there are problems and they get fixed if those problems need fixing. a lot of things that people have complained about have actually been addressed, and problems that weren’t even noticed by the players have been addressed as well. they’re clearly actually trying to make this game work for the competitive players even if they dont seem to think so. if this was just ‘some party game’ then they wouldn’t be changing anything, they’d just keep all the shit in and let people mash buttons. our concerns are their concerns and if the problem is big enough they’ll address it.
all of that said, everyone is entitled to their opinion. if you think fireballs will be ass, antiair will suck, the chain system is retarded, etc etc then that’s fine. don’t buy the game - buy something you like. no one is forcing you to pick up SFxT just because it’s a competitive SF game. SF4 won’t die, ST isn’t dead, 3rd Strike is … well there’s still people playing it (like me!), and CVS2 is probably still around somewhere. play the games you like.
You mention ST a lot, but in your post you say “fireballs should never be your main gameplan” so I don’t know what to think.
And it’s not a matter of just playing what you want. If this game fails, it’s really bad for the community because it’s the main game we’ll be having for quite a while. SF4 did an incredible job for the scene and SFxT is, in my limited view, threatening to be a huge step back. Nobody likes this game in my scene and while i’m from a meaningless third world country I’m sure those feelings are in other places too. I can’t even stand watching streams of this game, because the amount of jumping, mashing and timeouts make me cringe.
Also, I want to play the most competitive game, with the most people, so even though I think KoF XIII is a vastly superior game in every way, I still “have” to play SF4 because the playerbase is 50x larger.
even in ST you aren’t just throwing fireballs - throw a fireball at a range that’s unsafe and you risk eating a full combo. this applies to pokes as well, you can be counterhit which also could lead into a damaging combo. fireballs are a form of poke, and they’re a unique one because their hitbox is a separate one from from the characters. they have their uses just like any other form of poke, regardless of their damage output. for example: ryu isnt going to go for low forward xx stand heavy kick every time because that does no damage. if his goal is to open up the opponent he’s going to slowly make them grow impatient with low forward xx fireball. fireballs chip, normals don’t.
and it actually is a matter of playing a game you like - for example, i don’t play UMVC3. does that mean there is no scene? just because you dislike a game or have a high and mighty perspective that a game must be absolutely perfect or its a “no go” doesn’t mean other people won’t be more open minded about the concept of new things. there’s nothing wrong with disliking the game but that doesn’t mean the game is going to fail.
another example is to look at SF4. do you know how many people hate SF4? a lot. a lot of people hate SF4. is there a scene? yes. a huge one, infact. if you dont like it, that is perfectly fine - you can not watch the tournies if you like and not even touch the game. play what you enjoy, build the scene of a game you enjoy. just because you dislike SFxT doesnt mean it’s going to bend to your will and become a game you love. it’s not going to happen. they’re not going to make this game become some perfect game just to suite everything you want in. i have gripes and complaints about most of the games i enjoy - do you think i like that chun li is so ridiculous in 3rd Strike? helllllll no. does it make me stop playing? not at all.
also, dude, i hate to tell you this but that’s all you. that’s not how everyone is going to feel. i dont see why if you enjoy KOF13 that you don’t take the initiative and try to build up the scene in your area rather than play a game you don’t like just because there’s already a pre-existing scene… but hey, if you don’t do that then i don’t see what the problem is with SF4. clearly you enjoy the competition of the game, which is basically what any fighting game exists for. if you think KOF13 is a better game then build your scene up, don’t complain just because no one else is doing it. same goes for SFxT, just because there might be a big scene for it and it might be a vastly popular game for awhile doesn’t mean you can’t build up the scene for your favorite game as well. hell, you don’t even have to just play one game, just play whatever it is you like and make that scene happen.
but yeah. SFxT will be big, no dout, but that doesn’t mean it’s got to be loved by everyone. play ST, play KOF, play Mahvel, play Skull Girls, play literally any game you want and find other people who want to play with you. it’s seriously that simple.
Not that I’m taking sides here, because I agree with both of you guys! You’re both having a good discussion as it is. I guess I’ll chime in on fireballs, since ST is the only SF game where I have lots of experience. Fireballs in ST are just absolutely scary, there’s not a single fireball character in that game that sucks. The smaller stages, lower jump arcs, and harder-to-do neutral jumps make it a zoner’s paradise. I’ve always felt SF should be somewhere between SF4 and ST. Anyway, I can elaborate further if required.
Lastly, got some questions. Can we still do something like cr. mk xx hadouken in SFxT? I’m wondering if that kind of poking is in? I’m also a bit worried at the randomness the game may feature. There was a TON of jumping around in those streams, and I’m not sure if its because of experimentation or just lack of skill. But yeah, I’m worried. I didn’t see any AA’ing or fundamental play, just jumping and performing cross-combos. I hope AA’s actually serve their intended purpose and don’t trade with everything like in SF4.
my only complaints with this game is the pre order exclusive gems, along with dlc gems. i think the actual game itself looks a lot of fun.
ok, so for my rant about the gems. first of all, i know people who’ve played the game are saying that the gems aren’t as important as they first thought they would be. i actually don’t have any problems with the system itself, i think it’s a cool concept. however, making some of the gems gamestop exclusives/paid for dlc is flat out bullshit. i really hope that someone like tokido finds a gem load out from using only the exclusive gems. lets say they pick akuma and find a way to incorporate the gems into their vortex/mixup game so that for 10-15 seconds of each round, they have all three gems activated, making their mixup game even scarier and giving them a noticeable advantage over akuma mains who just bought the normal game and don’t have those gems. why? because that way, capcom will hopefully realise that making game mechanics (no matter how big or small) paid dlc is just fucking stupid.
Yes.
You talk about building a scene as if that’s simple and I sit on my ass and play ranked matches every day. Playing the same 5 people on the game I like or just 10-15 who are very willing but terrible because they don’t practice gets old, so I slap that sf4 and umvc3 to enjoy some competition, which is also what will probably happen if I pick sfxt. Two of the most active st members in this forum and probably the greatest contributors to the wiki are from brazil and despite their huge efforts, they’ve never been able to hold a st tournament due to the lack of players afaik.
I know I sound bitter and annoying, but I was truly hoping this would be the next step in fighting games, pushing things further than SF4. Part of me wants it to fail badly so that hopefully we get a different design philosophy in the future, but the other part realizes this is what we’re getting and if this fails, it’s going to be a huge blow to the fighting game scene.
I still think cr.mk xx hadouken pales against cr.mk xx s.hk/hp because of how low damage is in this game and the reward from a magic series is much greater.
I also agree on aa and how ridiculous the jumping and neutral jumping has been on streams. There’s too much reward vs little risk on jumping, because damage is also mad low on dps and stuff. I was mad hype about juggling after an AA, but they nerfed that aspect into oblivion and without a fadc ultra to at least make the opponent second guess jumping in, there’s really not so much risk involved.
I vanilla sf4 Sagat’s dp dealt some crazy damage like 200, but it has been forever nerfed and they’ve taken it one step further in sfxt.
Well, let’s be real: the days of fundamental zoning are gone for good. I doubt there will ever be another Street Fighter game that doesn’t feature some new system or dynamic in it. Despite this being a rant thread, I say we wait until SFxT releases before we judge.
Watching stuff like the WNF stream and Level Up your Game’s Tekken breakdown I can say with complete confidence, leaving out Gen and Makoto from SFxT was a dumb choice.
Certain characters from the Tekken side have a distinctly “SF” feel, even somewhat in their own games. Makoto and Gen always reminded me a bit of Tekken. Combine that with the fact both characters are well known for their juggle based combos, and Gen’s trademark is his stance changing (a common feature in Tekken.) and that SFxT has ground bounces / wall bounces (Makoto ex oroshi ground bounce to ex hayate wall bounce to fukiage up punch to Tsurugi axe kick epic combo anyone?) leaving those two out makes me sad. 
My rant is that Ono promised Tekken characters would have the same inputs from Tekken. Yet we find that some are and that important moves such as Law’s anti-fireball moves (shown in the levelupyourgame video) is not the same input from Tekken, is quite difficult to execute and the move itself is useless. Even Paul has some moves but important moves are either SF styled and not really useful at all. This is just Law and Paul so we don’t know yet about the others. Levelupyourgame is going to break down every character each day and hopefully each day won’t bring me closer to cancelling my pre-order.
This change in input is a small matter to people who play both games but pure Tekken players might get put off by this.
Even though from WNF’s stream, Tekken looked strong at the start with our mixup’s, it felt like that was all we had to go with e.g. after floe figured it all out, SF took over. Even MarkMan is siding with SF, hes a diehard Tekken player but he see’s the bs this game is going to be.
tl;dr: Imagine in TKxSF, a fireball is fff+lp+mp; wouldn’t it be weird to a shoto player? and Tekken mixups; is that all?