shrug shit happens
my bad. i read the stuff after it said āfour full of fives, four full of fives.ā damn thatās some rigged shit right there
2+2 is exactly like SRK, only a couple years ago.
Basically that forum is at that stage in itās development where the noise-to-information ratio is just about to hit the breaking point. There are a lot of really good posts there and the important posters (Malmuth/Sklansky, etc) still post from time to time. But the new wave of morons and idiots are starting to take over a bit. Also that forum is remarkably rude. If you donāt fit with their particular ideology on something, they just go out of their way to be asses.
So yeah, itās basically exactly like SRK. I read the posts there, but itās primarily useful for identifying people. When I know that I have a ābrown troutā at my table, I basically try to run them over. Most 2+2ers are weak-tight at the tables, especially if you mention that youāre a trout also. They try not to make any mistakes which translates most often into weak-tight play. Probably my favorite hunting trick these days.
And yeah, I agree with LB. The best part of that hand is that A9 and KQ called. LOL
āJay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com
They were both short stacked, if you play online poker and you even think twice about someone making those calls, you need to pay more attention. A9 really wasnt THAT bad of a play.
a9 suited - i mean is that really his fault? first to act, no chips, figuring no one hit that flop (you really gonna put someone on a 4 who was in for 2 before the flop? maybe a pocket pair but if you get someone heads up you still have outs) itās prolly a good situation for him to bet and hope a) everyone folds(not really likely since itās only 100 more, but i seen people fold to min bets in a pot 20x the min bet on the river) b) no one got a piece of that and either gets someone heads up or a A or 9 falls giving him 4 full of A or someone calls just bc itās so cheap and he wins with A high, donāt think he/she really thought everyone else would call.
from the big blind with a min raise and 4 people in why wouldnāt you call with A9 suited? itās not really as bad as you made it out to be. maybe in a ring game youād check (or bet and see if you get raised where you could fold) and see what happens, but tournaments are different than ring games.
if youāre following the whole pot odds idea (which i donāt think holds for tournaments - cash games yes, but not tournaments), it makes sense for him to make the call for only 50 more with a9 suited
if he doesnāt call then heās left with 150 chips and the SB coming to him, he had a chance to almost quadruple up here, good risk IMO
i guess the only thing maybe the A9 shoulda done was just move all in there, since calling youāre pretty commited right there, if he folds he only has 100 chips left and the SB coming to him.
the KQ was stupid IMO tho, got a bet and a raise in front of you, and you got none of that flop, might as well fold
The mistakes they both made is in terms of aggressiveness. When youāre that shortstacked (usually the definition is less than 10xBB), you have two choices.
āAll-in
āFold
Thatās it. To be fair to A9 guy, he probably was going to get screwed in this hand. With that hand on BB, youāre going all in and even though you have the A4 guy dominated, heās probably going to call. Itās not AS BAD a mistake, but still a mistake.
The KQ guy was pretty dumb though. Itās either all-in or fold and in a multi-way pot with a āplease call meā raise in front, he has no business being in that hand and if he WAS going to get in that hand, it should have been all-in, not calling his chips away.
Thatās the mistake there and why itās funny.
āJay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com
So Iām playing 1 / 2
I have KQ flop top 2 pair. Iām betting it all the way and this maniac is calling. a 10 comes on the river and this douche bag has AJ for the straight.
I canāt believe some of this bullshit. who the fuck calls raises and re-raises with an inside draw.
Hey rob itās me drewā¦the one who plays marvel at rutgers 
I didnāt know you played that much poker, or else I wouldāve called you for some games. Did you graduate yet?
If itās a big multiway pot, he might actually be correct to call you depending on how many people, preflop raises etc.
Say 3 people are in the pot and he raises preflop. There are 3 dollars in the pot, if you didnāt reraise him, thereās no reason to put you on AK or AQ, so he figures he has two cards he can catch to win the pot: an ace for the lead, and a 10 for the absolute nuts. Now on the flop if you bet and the other person calls, heās getting 1:5 on his money, which is more than enough to call with two cards to catch. If itās headsup, heās getting 1:4 which is still enough.
Now onto the turn, this is where itās most important. If even ONE other person is in the pot with you two, then he gets over 1:5 odds on his money, which means he only has to win 20% of the time to make this a profitable call. However in reality he only has 1:10 shot of hitting it, but in his mind hitting an ace is probably still good. That makes it close to a 3:10 shot with 1:5 odds, so he would in fact be correct, only you have two pair and not one pair, so bad luck for you and good luck for him.
If there were constant reraising, he should know even hitting an ace isnāt good, but depending on his position he could have been making the right call still. For example, he called the flop, and you slowplay til the turn. You bet, he calls, then person behind reraises, you call, and itās up to him. Though he knows heās horribly beat, the action put so much money in the pot that he is probably getting that 1:10 he needs. He also gets huge implied odds, since he is drawing to the absolute nuts. If he DOES hit it, most likely he could check-raise or just straight up raise both of you and gain an additional 4 bets.
Sometimes itās not that simple to just bet when you have the best hand. You might have to win smalller pots, and maximize the number of pots you can win. Like hitting a ragged flop and checking and hoping someone raises so you can reraise right behind him, and make it wrong for your other opponents to call, contrary to most popular belief that you should pump the pot as much as possible whenever you have the slightest edge.
Youāre an idiot.
Doh, I thought the mathematical approach was a good one to poker 
Btw you asked what kind of idiot would callā¦and I gave you a couple scenarios where he would be playing ācorrectā poker. No need to PMS on me cause u lost a pot.
Just to clarify, this is a 5 dollar sng. They are bad players, they happened to push in with overcards thinking they could catch and make the best hand.
Nice, SRK crybabies whining about bad beats. Grow up, it happens. Crying about bead beats is a sure way to suck at poker for life. Poker is like a lot of things in that just playing will only improve you marginally. Playing and thinking is what makes you better.
What kind of an idiot calls big raises or caps betting with KQ? The kind of idiot you want at your table.
The number 1 mistake bad poker players make is complaining about bad poker players. As if playing really good players would somehow be easier. If you canāt beat internet scrubs that call with 2 outers you sure as hell arenāt going to beat someone who knows what they are doing. People who think they are good but are just constantly sucked out on are fooling themselves. If you are good and playing low limits you WILL get constantly sucked out on but you should also be winning.
Spend a weekend at a casino and you will see a hundred plays that make no sense. Itās ordinary, nothing to get excited about. Someone will play 33 and hit a 3 on the river after calling 3 bets on the flop and turn. It happens. Them missing is what makes you most of your money.
margalis is so right it is a part of the game. esp no limit hold em.
u want them to beat u in a bad way way more than in out playing. everyone should def. go to cardplayer.com and read all the articles, read as many books as u can. esp hole emā poker for advanced players by david sklansky and mason malmuth.
I agree. :tup:
Quick question for anyone thatāll answer: What do you guys think of Mike Caroās book on poker tells. I read some of it a while back and itās pretty intersting. I applied some of it at casinos, homegames, and to myself, and wow, heās right on most occasions.
hey thanks for the look-out =D
does anybody recommend any books? i read Phil Hellmuthās HoldEm Tips book and it helped my game just a bit. but he didnāt explain how to play hands like Q 10, K 9, K 10, Q J, etc. i want to know MORE! RECOMMEND ME =D
hey viscant, do u answer ur emails?
BTW, how can i get PARTY POINTS from Party Poker.com? i wanted to join a free tournament, but i canāt seem to do itā¦help??
viscant:
u seem to know a good deal so i wanted to ask u about my plans and get an opinion. I love poker alot and iām going to be a dealer in a casino for a while in hopefully like under 2 years. Is this a good idea, i figure i can see like so many extra hands and get payed for it. iām pretty good at hold em l/nl,7 stud, and esp. omaha. i feel confident but i do know that poker is a hard way to make a easy living.
so is being a dealer a good idea or should i go with another job that will be more money for my bank roll but less exp. at cards. oh and also who do ya think is the best player tournament wise and cash game wise? just curious.
wholefān show
caro is the mad genius for a reason, but against good players u have to apply and un apply things that seem obvious, u have to understand fake tells to really know tells, but also rem. those are jsut generalizations. some people get nervous on a big hand instead of a bluff, etc. or talk when they have dif. holdings. thatās what makes poker an art form. also read zen and the art of poker it will make u calmer and more astute to goings on at the table, which is what itās all about:
patience, paying attention, and good decision making based on information. good luck
Caroās book is good. I wouldnāt buy it, Iād go to a bookstore and just flip through it. A lot of it is super common sense, some of it is hella useful though. One of his tells about the guy who pretends like heās going to beat you into the pot and call your bet on the river. Heās really only 50/50 on calling. If you bet confidently while his hand is over the pot, heāll pull it back and fold a lot. Also a lot of his weak=strong and strong=weak is 100% right on low limit players. Another winner I remember was, when the board comes out all of 1 suit and the guy checks his hole cards, he wants to see if heās got a high card to draw to. When he doesnāt look, he probably has it. Thatās because you usually remember your suit if youāre suited. If he has to look again, heās 90% off suited. Sounds stupid but itās spot on in the games Iāve played.
The most important thing youād probably take away from the book is controlling your tells. As an internet player I never realized I had tells like this until someone pulled me aside at the casino and told me about it. My huge huge tell for awhile was when I have a good hand live, I start stacking my chips into bet sizes. Or like if I hit the flop, Iād start parcelling out sets of 3s or 6s or whatever. I had no idea I did it but apparently I did. Thanks to random drunk guy for telling me I guess. Caroās book taught me to put my bets out exactly the same way, take exactly the same amount of time, watch other people on the flop and not the cards and not talk. Those are the easiest giveaways. Iām sure Iām still an easy read for a pro, but Iāve improved significantly against the typical morons.
Hilgerās book is still the best poker book for my money though. Worth itās weight in gold.
And yes I answer email.
EDIT:
Being a dealer is a good job, if you can take the abuse. People are hella asses to dealers. You can expect to make good money through tips and you get to watch a lot of poker if thatās your thing. At the local casino all the dealers are players and they usually sit down at the table after they finish their shift. Strangely enough, most dealers are action junkies and lousy players. I have no idea why. Some dealers go on to become great players. Scott Fischman or however you spell it was one example.
Best tournament player is probably Daniel Negreanu at least lately. Heās had a lousy world series but after his last year, he has a free pass this year. A lot of his ideas about drawing with poor odds and tournament metagame strategy are really interesting to me. I also have a lot of respect for Dan Harrington and loved his book(s). Great read.
Best cash game player? I honestly donāt know enough. Iāve never actually watched many of the big cash games live. I can tell you that Hellmuth is awful in cash games. He routinely gets raped on Ultimate Bet. Heās usually the biggest fish at the table when he sits down in the big cash games there. I have no idea how he can afford to keep playing those. Itās not uncommon to see him drop 10, 20 grand in a night. Since I donāt know whoās really good other than what Iāve been told, Iāll go with Chip Reese or Doyle. They seem to have good reputations. But honestly I donāt know enough to say for sure.
āJay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com
Viscant isnt good at poker, heās good at online limit poker and good at reaping bonus rewards, dont be fooledā¦
N-Ken is right. Iām really not that great a player. I can think of at least 5-10 SRKers who are far better than me. I can figure out how to squeeze decent money out of the game, but thatās more guile than skill. Bonus offers, prop play, affiliate marketing, etc. As of the beginning of this month, I made an almost equal amount in bonus money as I did from actually playing the game for the year. Iāve probably made at least double that in affiliate money. Prop payments, referrals, rakeback, etc all have contributed.
So yeah, the amount of money off poker that Iāve made by actually playing and winning at poker is probably about 1/5 of what the bottom line says. Viva e-commerce.
āJay Snyder
Viscant@aol.com