It is of my uneducated and somewhat invalid opinion that since the console came first and the rules were established with only console in mind, we play 2K2UM with console rules, and play Revenge with Revenge rules, especially considering two factors…
1.) It may not come to console, especially if it turns out to be a carbon copy of UM, in which case most of us won’t end up playing it and we can just continue using UM.
2.) It may be tweaked drastically, have new stages, characters, what have you, in which case, yes, it will be a different game in which the boss characters may be balanced with competition in mind. In this case, each game would have their own rulesets as well.
I mean, c’mon.Why tweak the rules that have already been established for a game which 90% of us may never get to play without traveling extremely long distances or use of an emulator?
well the extra characters are there so the only ones missing are the bosses
and i was wrong, at the moment there are no new stages only the older in 2d
Well if that’s you, by that logic no ruleset applies to you. Not even the one already in place for the game
This has been debated time and time again and the one argument that always made the most sense to me was universal conformity. So that arcade players don’t have to learn match ups that are impossible for them to practice against ahead of time, console only characters are banned.
Still doesn’t really apply to the US scene, but at international events like Evo and DG’s event in Paso, players from countries that will more than likely use the arcade version will be present.
The reply- The consensus is this: Unless Revenge is completely the same game, we run 2k2UM with 2k2UM rules.
Remember: Tekken, Street Fighter, Capcom in general, Midway (Mortal Kombat upgrades in the beginning remember?) Soul Calibur (with it’s arcade edition) and Guilty Gear have set the standard with this, we run 2k2UM with 2k2UM rules unless both games turn out to be the same and we know they won’t. So there is no reason I should have to apply Revenge rules to 2k2UM when they are different games.
When has this been done in history? Have tournament organizers applied SF Championship Edition rules to World Warrior? That wouldnt be possible would it? Think about it, Guile hand cuffs in WW and the event that CE has more characters, therefore making it where the different game needs its own rules.
About the arcade release thing, we gotta get the Arcade cab first. Also if we ain’t using the arcade cab then we gotta go with the PS2 version see.
Now sure once we get confirmation of being able to get a supergun for the tournament, an arcade cab, OR a console version, then everything upgrades to Revenge just like everything else has done in the past. Everyone upgrades to the latest version, thus we would upgrade to the latest version.
Once again, all this goes out the window if the game proves to be 100% the same as 2k2UM, but we ALL know just by the interview alone that will NOT be the case.
The difference is that there are no ‘2k2um rules’. They are completely FUBU in comparison to hard-locked arcade ‘rules’. And comparing Geese to Billy? Billy is toned down compared og2k2, I don’t think he scares anyone. Why does it matter that the next most powerful characters might be used more? KOF is a team game, they will be used anyway! I guess you could argue that we would see more of the 4th-best character in the game…“guys I’m warning you, if we take out Chun-Li, we might see more Makoto!”
Yeah my bottom line is that people need to think around this “Banning solves everything” attitude. IMO its a weak copout. Why not just find a way to fight the person instead of just going for a weak copout ‘ban’ excuse. If you ban one person I’ll just find the next.
Banning overall isn’t the answer for the most part. People should find ways around stuff. It’s like NGBC, instead of whining about Big-Kim how about you find out how to beat them? Instead of whining about 98UM Krauser how about you all find out how to beat him? Same with Kula and Gato in KOFXI.
So that’s my argument, this whole Ban Movement really is just weak, get better at the game, learn the game (WATCH DANDY J’S VIDS!!! ) , learn the matchups…or…
Yeah I’m just saying, people have a valid argument for not wanting Geese in the game. Personally, I’m not convinced that Geese should be banned. Especially when there is just so much fucking shit in the game and it’s been out what? Less than a month? This kind of game is going to take a year or more just to get to the point where everyone has a good idea on the extent of the strengths of ALL the characters.
Honestly Devildigimon, Its pretty evident that The community is about to hit a split. Like i predicted a while ago, the community will be split due to 2K2UM-XII/Revenge. Maybe people from Asia don’t see us with the same level because we don’t have arcade cabinets or we all don’t play on arcade sticks, and these same people are getting turned off by XII, dismissing it as too simple because they don’t have uberdextrous button commands that I (someone who knows his stuff but does’t ahve the best reflexes) need hand transplants for. Since 2K2UM was straight to console and Japan sure as hell didn’t say anything, USA/Mexico decided to democratically vote on the movelist. Now with Revenge, all those people are bitching about the ruleset applied currently to 2k2um when they themselves didn’t do anything with that revision. I hate to say it but if you’re in the U.S., SRK (of all places! who would’ve thought to be honest) is the location for the community now.
to all the people who want these bosses playable i ask this question?
do u guys actually even play this game?
that nerf with goro is NEEDED imo.
think about like this=they dont even let you play with the boss row in many other modes in the game (survival time attack etc)
now they come out with an arcade port and guess whos not playable?:wonder:
allowing one char from that row is just silly ethier a=let,em all be playable or b= none of em at all.
dg dandy is right billy aint shit compared 2 svc geese U know that row is SUSPECT.(k-9999 cant even throw 2 super anymore but geese can?:shake:)
seems to me snk made the decision for us and im glad because i would hate to
see the game end up like 98um.
True, he’s not a default character he’s unlockable so thats the majority of their argument. If it’s about how powerful reg Geese is, I tell people like I told Hatred, how much of this would be DIFFERENT had I decided not to upload stuff to youtube showing what he can do??? :rolleyes:
So with that said I’m taking a different approach with KOFXII. I ain’t showing that much stuff should Geese be playable in the game. I may show Duo Lon stuff (Maybe not) since I see more and more are complaining and not adjusting…
Thats the biggest issue I have, adjust, don’t whine!!! Adjust like Earwig did at Final Round XII…thats the biggest compliment I gotta give him…he adjusted to Geese in Grand Finals rather well!!! :china:
This is true, and SF4’s new rules helped bring out this split due to the fact that now console characters being playable is becoming the in thing, so it’s making us evaluate all the old adages and rule sets we’ve had. I don’t judge anyone, when they talk about the Smash players I turn a blind eye, because yes, everyone does the same thing, some people like to make their dicks to be bigger and make it seem like they are better than the rest.
It’s definately gonna be a divide. Those that play Revenge, those that play 2k2UM, those that play KOFXII, and those that play it all and will use all of this as motivation to be the best in all of them so as to prove that it doesn’t matter!!!
Only people that should even be in the discussion on the bottom row is Geese and Goenitz. SNKP made it easy though by making Revenge, it’s only a matter of time before we all upgrade to that version assuming we get it (ON PS3 or something who knows, or like the judge said in Japan only).
Then once Revenge hits everything is settled, unless Isolde turns out to be in the game and I find out something broken with her…
See this is further proof that there will be a divide among the community…
Yeah it seems more likely that Revenge will be different from 02UM. That’s cool, the more games the marrier. It is exactly like CE and Turbo. Same engine, differnt revision. Both are good enough to be played. With that in mind, Revenge and 02UM will be both great to play.
I agree Devildigimon on the console character issue. I want to us characters that I like and practice with. Example, if I went to a SFIV tournament for PS3/360 and they say arcade characters only, I’d be mad to say the least since one of my mains is FeiLong (unless they were using the arcade cab itself, that’s fine then). As I’ve said time and time again, we should allow all characters in a fighting game, unless they’ve been tested to dominate everyone (like ST Akuma, that is logical). So yeah, we are now at the point where we should allow the use of characters not from arcade version.
I don’t know, I think it’s kind of weak to bring a supergun of a changed arcade version along to an arcade that no one but like, the supergun owner will have played. It’s a disservice to anyone else who was playing the previous PS2 release.
Hey, I conform to rulesets whenever possible, I never try to main boss/banned characters, I do best 3/5 or whatever
I just think it’s illogical to alter the rules for a game we already have on console, for a game in the arcade that most of us in the west won’t even be near enough to play consistently and which may or may not be different in content and system than the console version. I don’t even play KOF hardcore and I can see the logical fallacy in this! Although I do love playing it, ever since 98…
EDIT: Oh, I forgot, about the matchup issue… I think that excuse is also invalid, as none of the unlockable characters in 2K2UM are really new. The EX characters are just versions of the characters from prior KOFs, most of the boss characters are banned anyway, Goenitz is borderline banned last I heard, and everyone who consistently plays SNK games has a pretty good idea of how Geese fights in general.
I can see if the characters were new or ported from more obscure fighters, such as the Buriki-One characters in KOFXI, but the characters we’re debating upon have been in KOF or other mainstream SNK games for years now.
Indeed thats another thing. Its not geese brings anything new and amazing to the table. Other than strong priorities, There’s a little too much huff and puffin over the Birdman
I don’t want Bao banned even though he seems just as dangerous as Geese at the moment.
I’m just for having everyone on the same page.
But I mean what qualifies as a “new game”
Like if the only thing changed was removal of hinako infinite , is that enough to say 2k2UM and revenge aren’t the same and should have different rulesets?
And yeah if that’s true let the madness begin, and most won’t see what I can do with Geese until tournament time in KOFXII…I may not even do it in casuals vs. Gualberto since I see how much people are whining about Geese.
Agreed, times are changing now and days so we gotta change with the times.
I thought about this too see, it would be a disservice, but at the same time you’d have those that would want to play the new version. So say we have a supergun of Revenge, I say we have a tournament of both 2k2UM and Revenge, or use the Supergun for casuals or something. I think both can work, because they will be two different games.
This is what I say, people just need to learn how to deal with these characters and stop looking for excuses. Learn how to fight characters or you will never amount to anything…
By definition- Any time you change a movelist/special, change a property, remove a special, add a special, tone down a move, remove an infinite or any of that you are changing the game.
Look at Tekken 5.0 vs. 5.1. Steve Fox. Lets take a look at one thing- His infinite combo. By removing that infinite in 5.1 ** you are changing the game.**
Lets look at 2002 OG vs. 2002 UM Angel: By removing Angels infinite you are changing the game.
Lets take a look at 2002 Geese vs. 2002 UM Geese: By changing his reppukens, removing his mini double st.c f+b combo from 2002 OG, you are changing the game.
By removing Hinako’s infinite you are changing the game. At a high level all of this becomes apparent because people have to change how they play certain characters. This in essence makes it a new game. In order for it to be the same game, nothing can be changed.
But this is not going to be the case, The Hinako Five will no longer exist, therefore changing what Hinako can do and eliminating one of her serious threats vs. the Hinako Five, this changes the game.
) , learn the matchups…or…
