The Next Fist of the North Star/Hokuto no Ken thread

[Amazing_Funbags]

^ Hell Shin’s QCBX2+C is MEANT to guardcursh yer opponent :looney: That move is awesome.

[FallingEdge]

God I love this game. Shin and Souther 4 life!!

[tianyuan]

2. Jumps in with air dash D at the tip - There’s not much Toki can do about that if he’s cornered besides the high counter. None of Toki’s normal anti-airs work for this kick. It’s just got a lot of priority. If you get too focused on countering his jump in, Shin has an easy time running in with his fast dash and doing more c.lk’s.

214A? 214214C?

5. Pokes a lot - since he has that godly cr.B and godly j.D, it’s easy for him to break the guard. Shin is pretty high up in the guard bar priority, so in most fights, Shin puts the guard bar on the other guy. When someone’s scared of getting guard broken, it’s too easy to mix things up and either command throw, do some more high/low mixups, and get bunch of random hits. If they try to take a little breathe and gain some guard meter back by poking at Shin, Shin can alpha counter and put them back into the same shitty position and it’s just really frustrating.

IAD D vs cr.B, 214A vs j.D, it’s quite fair? Learn to use aura guard already, it prevents you from getting guard break easily.

Shin vs Toki is a reasonable fair fight (besides Toki’s 180% wall combo:sweat: ).

[Amazing_Funbags]

Mamiya is fun to play. Just don’t get caught in the corner…BTW My Shin is actually “OK” ^^

[System_1]

BTW My Shin is actually “OK” ^^

Prove it! Don’t chicken out next time we have a Hokuto no Ken gathering :razzy:

[Amazing_Funbags]

^ I hadda work you arse…=P

[Maho]

I don’t think Shin vs Toki is really a “fair fight”, yes Shin as some more tools than the others “non top tier” chars to deal with him like for exemple 2B going under Toki’s 2D (but well only scrubs mash it thinking it’s a “beat everything move”), anyway Toki is way better than Shin overall and he doesn’t need as much oppenings to win a round, Shin can win but he’ll need to work more for it.
This matchup isn’t Shin hardest, Rei is far worse for him i think, but it’s really not easy too.

This week end, i went to the stunfest (big tourney Pharaon posted vids in the previous page of the thread) and got to play with some of the best french Toki players, namelly Mr Boost and Oro.
I played a lot in freeplay with Oro (he also raped me in the tourney lol) and got to really see how good Toki is when played well (i don’t have any good Toki in my area). I was actually able to do way better with my Rei which isn’t really so great (worked a lot less on him than Shin).

1. Uses cr.B a lot - This move is retarded imo. It goes under toki’s cr.A and cr.D EASILY, which are the two most useful poking tools Toki has. Toki can’t get in by dashing in or teleporting in if Shin is randomly sticking out cr.B’s, so he’s forced to jump in and that’s pretty easy to block or deal with for Shin.

Tianyuan already said it, Toki’s IAD jD will beat 2B spam easely, if he does it on reaction, yes you’ll have time to block but you’ll be under his pressure, nothing beside a super will beat it consistently, 623B must be done as soon as he jumps and that’s really fast, considering he has a lot of other options to pressure you.
Don’t think it’s easy for Shin to deal with, Toki’s pressure is by far the scariest in the game when the guy uses all the options, of course a 2A 2D 623B spammer is not so much of a problem.

2. Jumps in with air dash D at the tip - There’s not much Toki can do about that if he’s cornered besides the high counter. None of Toki’s normal anti-airs work for this kick. It’s just got a lot of priority. If you get too focused on countering his jump in, Shin has an easy time running in with his fast dash and doing more c.lk’s.

I thought the same some days ago, most of the time i try to play very agressively with Shin, kind of how you would play KOF. But well when facing a good player with really fast reflexes, i meet the reality of 214A and the 70% + combo that goes with it a lot of times for being too agressive. Of course i tried to empty IAD into command throw but it’s not even guaranteed you can do it if he whiff the counter, so it’s not reliable to do especially when you think of the risk/reward. And nerver forget no jumps/IAD are allowed when he have an aura bar, i heard enough Hokuto Saihaken digits during the 2 days of the touney to stop doing that for my entire life

3. Gets knock down whenever possible - Shin has a really good and fast cross up (air dash j.B) and a fake cross up (jump D) and when used appropriately after a knock down, Shin puts himself in a low risk situation and puts the opponent at a possible 50% or more combo threat that doesn’t require that much meter.

I use this quite a lot, IAD jB can make the 214A to whiff (but it’s not allways punishable), but lol sometimes Toki turns back automatically and hit you in the ass (i asked the player and he said it did the command like i didn’t cross up) for a nice combo.
Same thing than in the previous point, don’t do it if he has an aura bar. At first i gambled on doing 2B or cross up IAD jB to beat Saihaken or Sekkakou, works well with 2B vs Saihaken but IAD jB against Sekkakou is inconsistent. Sometimes (and that happened to me quite a lot actually) the jB will miss and Toki wil recover before you land > too bad for you.
You’ll say “2B can beat Sekkakou”, and yes it can but with slow and fast wake up being used, you’ll never be able to do it consitently, the risk/reward isn’t so good, CH Sekkakou mean 3 star, plus wallbounce combo if you’re near the corner.

4. Uses guard cancel attack at the right times - Shin probably has the best alpha counter move in the game. He can hit you with his back, so Toki can’t just mindlessly spam teleport loops on Shin. Also, landing that alpha counter gives you back some meter for the next alpha counter/super, and you can do some more wakeup mixup games.

Yeah guard cancel is essential for Shin against Toki, in the corner the best time is against an IAD jD, using it 623B pressure is good too but there is better ways to punish that. When cornered, Shin can actually do command throw in Ameba pressure even without agility defense on 2D (but the timing is really hard, you should agility defend if possible), the risk is higher than GC of course but reward is better also. So yeah Toki can’t mindlessly spam 623B against Shin, but that’s actually the same against any character if the player can agility defend consistently.

Speaking of GCs, i see a delayed Sekakou CH a Rei GC (into FKO lol), i didn’t got hit with it so i’m not sure you can do this against Shin, but well i started to GC a lot more carefully after being punished 3 times for it in the same match by Pharaon’s Raoh (using 623A).

I think the key for Toki is using all the pressure options and never to be predictable when on the offense, just that will give you a huge avantage. On defense Shin high/low mixup isn’t hard to block and counters are here to punish a too agressive player. You’ll just need to look out for his command throw, but if you start punishing some attempts (and not just escape with jump for exemple), the Shin player will think twice before using it, which make defense easier for you in the process.

And last thing a random “Toki is silly” fact, in one match against Oro, we were at point blank range and he did a Sekkakou, i did a Raishinsho just after it, considering Sekkakou hits instantly after the freeze, my super freeze must have occured the frame just after his. I couldn’t believe it but he did block my super, WTF IS THIS, WHERE IS THE RECOVERY ON THAT MOVE? :wtf:

[Demon_Dash]

So me and Desk encountered a glitch today, nothing special but odd all the same. I was doing (I think) Rei’s B&B on Heart and when I did his super, for some reason Heart’s sprite got a bit glitchy and turned into pink squares. I can’t remember if he did his pole super or something, but yeah, it was wierd.

[System_1]

Anyone from toronto playing currently ? we are all gonna be playing at T8 whos from T.O ?

[catchafire]

This is SRKs low key france thread… =)

[Maho]

If you know Toki’s gonna do either of those supers (or have meter even if he decides not to super) why wouldn’t you just block low a step away from Toki when he’s getting up and do a safely timed cr.B after the reversal timing goes away?

That’s what i meant, when he has an aura bar there is no safe okizeme possible which is a huge loss for Shin, of course like you said you can stay away to be safe but you lose the advantage, especially if you block a sekkakou which give him frame advantage (i think it’s not too much to pay for him to get the pressure).

A good Toki wouldn’t let Shin get an agility defense on his cr.D, cuz when Shin doesn’t have meter and Toki is doing his teleport strings/mixups on him, all Toki needs to prevent Shin from getting that agility defense on his cr.D is to stick out a cr.C before cr.D.

Like i said when cornered you can command throw out of 2D 623B 2A without agility defense on 2D, doing 2C before 2D will actually help you do that easier.
When Toki’s doing some 2A into 2D, you must stay crouched because he can hit you with 2B anytime after 2A, and as you get more blockstun when crouch the timing for the throw will be harder (plus you have to to react fast). But if you do a 2C between 2A and 2D, you can get up for blocking 2D safely, which gives you more frames to land the throw and also more time to react.
It’s still hard but doable, the only thing is that it can be dangerous when the Toki have an aura bar as he can 623B into Sekkakou to counter that without any risk for him.

He had time to block it maybe because you did the regular version of Raishinsho? I don’t know if you did, but it sounds like you weren’t doing C+E for the super. If you got the super flash right after Sekakou with C+E version of Raishinsho, I think you would’ve got him.

Because Shin has a bit of pre-flash frames on his regular Raishinsho, Toki and a lot of other characters can do a safe option select attack on Shin’s wake up, if Shin does the super you recover from your attack during the pre-flash frames of Raishinsho and if he doesn’t super, your next attack still connects without a hole inbetween attacks.

I know for the pre-flash frames, but doing 236236 E~C don’t get rid of these so it wouldn’t have change the outcome if i did that.

[tianyuan]

Why’re you so sour, dude? Are you seriously saying that you can 214214C on reaction against IAD D from Shin without letting Shin dash in freely at the same time or something?

No, but anticipation. When Shin uses IAD D he has to gamble you don’t do 214A or 214214C, Toki simply has to gamble the opposite. You have to make up your decision that’s all. Same goes to Shin’s 2B vs Toki’s IAD D. There is no guaranteed way to win otherwise why would you bother to play this game if you are guaratneed to win or lose:looney:

I thought the same some days ago, most of the time i try to play very agressively with Shin, kind of how you would play KOF. But well when facing a good player with really fast reflexes, i meet the reality of 214A and the 70% + combo that goes with it a lot of times for being too agressive.

WOW, mystery solved (I hope)!!! No wonder top Japanese Shin players can fight Toki decently but lose to Rei a lot while Hongkong’s KY eats Rei for breakfast but asked for help vs Toki. KOF brother! That’s what it is. KY probably plays KOF aggressive so he carried it to HnK and scared other Rei players to death then fell for Toki’s 214A and 623B trap. So in general Shin has to fight Rei aggressively at any cause but more defensive against Toki. Does it make any sense:confused:

Speaking of GCs, i see a delayed Sekakou CH a Rei GC (into FKO lol), i didn’t got hit with it so i’m not sure you can do this against Shin, but well i started to GC a lot more carefully after being punished 3 times for it in the same match by Pharaon’s Raoh (using 623A).

Toki’s delayed (or not) Sekkakou can’t beat Shin’s GC. But 214A is pain in the ass. Basically you want to GC, do it as soon as you can so Toki can’t hit confirm and react to it. Once Toki uses 214A by anticipation or simply defend thanks to Shin’s aggressive GC style, it’s time to sneak an attack sometimes:badboy:

[Shotokan_Symphony]

If you read my original lengthy post again

Maybe you should start reading ours? Tian offered good advice which you didn’t even bother replying to. Stop assuming everyone is against you.

[Mr.Mamation]

hnk having drama
THIS IS MADNESS

[4649]

hnk having drama
THIS IS MADNESS

no, no…this is not madness.
THIS…IS SRK!
::punts Jeremy in a pit… :: FATAL KO
::You Wa Shock plays::

[Shotokan_Symphony]

Oh man. I totally want to run HnK singles at Evo East.
But I wanna do a Jojo Tournament, too! What do I doooooooooooooooooooo

[ParryPerson]

laugh, take a chill pill, and stop ruining this thread, this isn’t even good drama.

[Mr.Mamation]

Tian isnt the kind of guy that would say smart ass things
i think you where confused by the way he said things seeing how is english isn’t the best (no offense)

on a side not i actually went one day not playing hnk… i was too busy watching it =p

edit: maybe if there is drama people can get more hype about this

[Shotokan_Symphony]

Whatever. I’m just gonna drop this whole thing after this post. I don’t wanna see this get past this page, and I’ve said about everything that needs to be said. I already feel a little bad for other people who frequent the thread for having to read the last couple of posts. If you still think I was the wrong one, feel free to take your best shot at me. I’ll admit up front if there’s something I did wrong if you can show it to me clearly.

If you read my original lengthy post again, I was mearly posting about what gave me hard times fighting against Shin with Toki. Instead of jumping all over me, putting words in my mouth, and assuming I have scrub mentality, I think the good old “I don’t agree completely, and this is what I think” would of worked a lot better, don’t you think? Above quoted part of a post is another example of assuming shit I wouldn’t say or think to myself. I never said “Do deez thingz and win 4 phree with Shin,” agreed?

I’m starting to think that either I just don’t have enough e-cred in this thread to share my honest humble info that I thought would help a few, or I just came off as something I didn’t intend to be, whatever it might be. I really don’t think I should be getting offended like this for what I did.

Uh huh.
Well, goodbye then.

[Maho]

I wasn’t talking about E~C. That is totally different from C+E (pressing them at the same time). If you have at least 1 boost bar and perform supers with C+E, your supers get activated faster with most supers. Sekakous is one of the few examples that are already really fast and it doesn’t gain much if at all from using that technique, but other supers that usually take long to go into the flash go into the super flash noticibily faster by performing the supers with E+button.

I never heard of that, anyway i tried and it doesn’t seem to affect Raishinsho in term of startup speed but it’s interesting, do you know which supers it works with for sure?