Yeah, pretty much.
Game is only about either making the absurd Turn 1 Board that can’t be broken, or punishing a bad Turn 1 board. Only time an actual game is played is when both sides brick.
It’s like Dino Rabbit format…but with a lot more decks in the format that do the same shit.
Didn’t know srk had a thread on yugioh. I know you guys already discussed the ban list but I though I’d throw in my thoughts in as well.
I felt the hit on monarchs was a little overboard but it isn’t as bad as it seems. I’m using a new combo with reckless greed in order to get the cards I need. I tribute summon the light level 6 monarch to pop two cards but I choose my reckless greeds (activating their effects). If I have two on the field, I get 6 cards to the hand. Really not too bad of a situation since the duel is usually over in about 3 or 4 turns. For storm forth, I’ll recycle it with Prime or banish and get it back through tributing squire. It still works.
When it comes to Kozmo, I like that the deck is still works because it can be handled multiple ways. Negating the ability to banish or limited players to one monster type (physic, or just spell caster) really hurts the deck. DD going to one isn’t too bad for players using it.
When it comes to the blue eyes getting hit, I think it’s just too popular with fans and helps Konami with selling packs too much for it to see a big hit. Players love using the old classics from the series.
I like pendulum call get hit because that does seem to slow certain architects down but players are already coming up with some unique ways to draw more cards.
Also, I think Kaiser C. Got hit because Konami struggles with the rulings on it. That’s really frustrating for decks where it’s the main card.
It’s official…Konami is trolling us.
Ok im making paleofrogs now. That name is too good to pass up on.
This is really my issue. There is a distinct difference between the game being fast and the game being over before I get to play. The same reason everyone hates floodgates. Shit is literally unfun, especially since making unbreakable boards like that can often result in super long turns.
Can’t speak for anyone else but the game is literally unplayable for me atm, unless it’s against the AI on YGOPro or just simple deck building.
Player interaction is one of the things that makes a game fun, but that aspect yugioh is even more limited now more than ever. Every game is who can shit out an OP board and flip their floodgate faster.
The problem is there’s no instant solution.
With Dino Rabbit format at least there was an epicenter, things that could be taken away to solve the problem.
Here…so many things would have to be taken away that’s it’s unfeasible to go back. And a lot of it snuck up on us. There’s no simple solution this time.
Kaiju’s are the simple solution to every boss monster. adapt
If Kaijus were such an easy answer then boss monsters wouldn’t exist.
Here’s the issue with Kaijus. They deal decently enough with one boss monster but today’s boards aren’t just ONE boss monster. If they were I wouldn’t say shit.
It’s boards that will be filled with multiple boss monsters that’s the issue. When, in about a month, you’re staring down Dark Law + Bahamut Shark + Toadally Awesome + Backrow, one Gameciel isn’t getting the job done. When you’re dealing with double Omega, one Gameciel isn’t enough. Crystal Wing/Siegfried, Kirin + other bosses (won’t name specifics because Metalfoes can vary greatly) and so on.
And running things like Lava Golem leave you up to other weaknesses.
Hell, the main deck of OCG format and what will DEFINITELY be the main deck of our format, ABC’s, are the most vulnerable to a single Kaiju and yet they still dominate tourneys, arguably even moreso since Kaijus were finally released in the OCG (though that’s more correlation than causation since the rise is due to Metalfoes dropping off with two hits).
There is no “adapting” to this trend. You either get on the “Turn 1 board or Turn 1 Break” trend or you lose. That isn’t up for discussion in the least. Hell let’s look at the TCG again. There are 31 decks that have topped so far in the TCG. I’d say around 4 decks don’t subscribe to that philosophy and I’m not even sure on Dinomists (as I haven’t seen those lists).
Quickly, somebody help me find Ygopro. I need dat online fix.
Just go on Google looking for YGOPro download.
It’s still indexed on google? I thought Konami was pulling it down everywhere. Alright will do lol.
You just can’t get it from the actual site, but there a few places still allowing a download and a few youtube vids to help.
The link I found is getting too much traffic. But thanks for the heads up.
Hey something I was thinking about. Has the game gotten just to fast and explosive? I say this because back when I played. I started in the Goat control format. Back when things were much slower. To where using flip effects, and stall was viable. But over time up until I stopped playing in the Exceed era. There was this big power creep and quickness to the game. To the point where playing defense could get you killed. Like every turn you have to have a response and put pressure back on your foe. Or next turn you were getting steam rolled. I think the game got a lil to crazy with all these ways of special summoning monsters.
I’m not saying the game should go back to being bare bones, but I would like to see a bit of a return to that old tug of war type of duels. Where it wasn’t “summon one monster, and if you have no immediate answer it facilitates special summon shenanigans and sets up my win condition”. Hell sometimes you don’t even get a turn to get a response ready. If you don’t have the right hand effe ct monster ready I.E effect Veiler, you’re fucked. On the opening turn!
But instead you actually had 2 turns to find an answer. Where there was actual risk and investment involved in special summoning. I.E ( Should I fusion summon to put myself in a good position? Or not chance it in case that face down is a bottomless Trap Hole ). Where your foe didn’t mass swarm in one turn and kill ya because you didn’t have a Gorz in hand.
Also another thought. What if cards like Cyber Jar, Fiber Jar etc where brought back but to balance them. The flip summon mechanic was removed entirely and replaced with being able to normal summon monsters in face up def? Create a bid of a mind game. “Do I attack that facedown so he can tribute summon next turn? Or not chance it in case it’s a Cyber Jar?” And there are some monsters that would benefit from face up def normal summons. Like Mind Protector.
Started with IOC era…it literally changed the game. Every since then you have some decks that can kill in 1-3 turns but usually bopped via banlist.
But the XYZ era pretty much fucked the game over with multiple ways to lock or kill your opponent in 1 turn lol
Even then, the Xyz Era had very specific things that you could target to lull things down. Dino Rabbit format was very similar to now…but there were easy cards that could be, and were hit, to get us out of that rut (though it was a progenitor of what was to come). HAT format was about as close to old school formats as we’ve had, at least pre-Soul Charge. Flips were relevant (thanks Geargias), traps were relevant…almost way TOO relevant, a few different deck archetypes that could be played. Nothing felt too outclassed. Soul Charge would end up ruining that format but Soul Charge is just a dumb card in general (and it’s not the reason for the place the game is, it just happened to get us out of a good HAT format a month or two sooner than expected).
The issue was slowly but surely Konami got into the habit of printing Boss Monsters with “Trap effects” for every deck. It’s one thing to have monsters with self-protection effects, that’s fine. Makes summoning bigger monsters worth the effort. But then we got things like Crystal Wing, we got Omega, we got CyDra Infinity and so on. And on their own, not too big a deal. But they kept sneaking under the radar for one reason or another and now the entire metagame is FLOODED with them.
Before, summoning big monsters with disruption required making room for traps so you had to have a decent balance of traps to protect and disrupt, to your actual engine to bring them out. Too hard with the engine let you have a big board but very little defense, too hard the other way made it too hard to build any sort of board but that was the challenge of deck building and the reason to pick certain archetypes. But now with these new Boss Monsters, you no longer need many traps if ANY. Most decks run 5 traps maximum, if they run traps at all. You’ll usually only run traps that are either so strong that they warrant some inclusion in the deck if you have the room (Solemn Brigade, Anti-Spell Fragrance, Vanity’s Emptiness) or you’ll run traps that you can search at will or function as part of your archetype (Fog Blade, Dark Contract of the Witch). But otherwise you don’t really need them.
The issue now is, there’s no way to reverse that trend unless you end up banning a majority of Boss Monsters with Trap-Like effects but that would hit way too many cards and on top of that since many decks were built around summoning those monsters, you’d end up ripping apart the entire metagame to try and right the ship.
Yugioh is what it is at this point. The downside is that it even lost it’s “IT’S MARVEL FOR CARD GAMES” appeal due to how the game plays now. You could call it bad, chaotic, whatever at any point but this is the first time I’d consider the game…boring. Even in the worst of formats it was at least somewhat exciting to see how much hell you could raise. This is pretty much the opposite. And also, unlike other formats, I really do not know how any of it could be fixed in a reasonable way. I emphasize reasonable because there are plenty of ways to fix it…but all of them are so drastic that they’re not really worth ACTUALLY considering outside of “what if” scenarios.
Bruh… I’m not saying one kaiju is the answer… But when you have a kaiju AND slumber its easy to break most boards.
People are sleeping on them when they were designed for the exact reasons you stated of multiple boss monsters.
So now you need two cards, one of which isn’t searchable, to have a CHANCE to break a turn 1 board to not outright lose.
On top of that, they aren’t being slept on. They’re being mained in both formats. But like Royal Oppression and Vanity’s Emptiness, it’s doing more work for the top decks than against them.
Of course the game is boring. Either you don’t get to play or your opponent doesn’t.
Also, I’m perfectly fine with banning a fuckton of monsters if it makes the game slower or more enjoyable. Number of cards that woukd be banned doesn’t matter imo, especially when we have what, or 10k cards in the gane atm.
Random question: What do you think about Dante not being hit yet? I see lots of people asking for him to be limited, if not banned.
Of course you’re perfectly fine with it. There would probably be a decent amount of people that would, but a lot more people that wouldn’t. If you’re going to ban the amount of monsters you’d have to ban to make a legitimate impact on how the game is played you might as well just start implementing a rotation format and I don’t trust Konami to be able to do that with any sort of competence, especially this late.
As for Dante I have absolutely no issue with the card. Strong card to be sure but I still find him and Burning Abyss to be relatively fair which is why I never mind them staying alive. The only thing of true brokenness on my end was double Beatrice openings, but that’s obviously no longer an issue. If BAs never got hit again, I’d be perfectly fine with it. It’s about to get crapped on pretty hard by the coming decks anyway so it’ll naturally fade out since it doesn’t go by the “Turn 1” philosophy anymore without double Beatrice.