The New MvC1 Discussion Thread: Is Marvel 1 considered bad?

[AzureXIII]

Mahvel 2 and 3 garner unfathomable degrees of hype and are extremely popular within the community. Yet, the original MvC is apparently on the opposite side of the spectrum. There is very, very little information or coverage on the game, it is rarely ever discussed, and most importantly: no one is playing it.

This disappoints me personally because I find the original to be the most enjoyable out of the bunch, yet it is quite literally dead. I’m just curious as to why that is.

[d3v]

There was discussion on this sometime last year on FGD. @NickRocks reposted some old posts from MvC1 vets like Viscant, Dasrik (may he rest in peace) and SpiderDan from before the great forum crash.

Petition to get MVC1 at EVO 2013

member since: yesterday

I suppose I can see what is being said. If you aren’t good at the game, don’t
know anyone who’s any good at the game and have no desire to be good at the
game, then yes, MvC1 is the better game. If you’re only playing at an
intermediate level then the gaps between Strider and Morrigan/Jin (Strider being
the best, Morrigan/Jin being tied for worst) is not that bad and not
insurmountable. Does this mean that those matches are any better than Cable v.
Zangief in MvC2? No, both are 10-0 slaughterfests when you actually know what to
do.

Most people who play the games seriously like MvC2 better because the better you
get, the more you can do and the more characters you can play and the more
styles of play are open. Whereas when you get right down to it in MvC1 you can
either

a) Do an infinite
b) Throw
c) Chip like a maniac

To people who say that MvC1 was full of pixieing, I don’t know what game you
were playing. Chun-Li and Spiderman were rendered fairly ineffective because of
grappling games. Zangief stands perfectly still then any time you jump or dash
in you eat an untechable throw into option, Wolverine and Gambit can do him one
better by getting good infinite setups. Red Venom can one-up that by getting
guaranteed untechable throws into infinites guaranteed to kill both characters
(as long as the 2nd one isn’t Megaman or Roll) after the initial jab.

Also add to it the fact that both War Machines and Strider have moves that make
any pixie that isn’t Wolverine dead in the water (and the fact that they rob you
off 50% life every 10-15-20 seconds–WM charges 2 levels in 10, Strider in 15,
GWM in 20)

The way I see it, MvC1 was a lot of fun in the beginning, then as the game
evolved it got really boring and repetitive really quickly. And MvC2 was really
boring in the beginning then became one of the most enjoyable games I’ve played
as it progressed. Bottom line, you can like whatever games you like, but if
you’re going to say that MvC1 was a) more fair to lesser characters b) more fun
c) more diverse or d) more aggressively paced, I would LOVE to see what kind of
game you’re playing.
–Jay Snyder
Le Viscant

I am better at MvC1 than MvC2. And I still like the latter better.

I have to concede with Viscant about the people who insist MvC1 is a mindless
pixiefest. It’s anything but. Having problems with a pixie who just attacks you
forever? I dare you to convince me that hanging in the corner and throwing the
opponent when they get too close (Hulk and Zangief) isn’t more mindless than
running in for a combo. Better yet, tell me how 50% damage for almost free every
15 seconds isn’t mindless either. People who claim about mindless pixies are
basically guilty of it themselves, because they lack the patience required to
fight it.

Look at the top tier of MvC1. Basically, the only top tier person who is a real
pixie is Wolverine, and that isn’t even why he’s top tier. War Machine and
Strider’s dashes are too slow to pixie with, and trying to pixie with Red Venom
is a fast way to die against patient players.

RV and Wolverine are good because they can maintain consistent pressure on an
opponent, and their throw ranges are so good that turtling on them is basically
ineffective in the long run. Strider owns because he has the orbs and one of the
best duo supers in the game; the War Machines dominate because they have the
other good duo super.

MvC2 has a real team dynamic that MvC1 lacks. In MvC1, for the most part, your
back-up partner didn’t make one squat of difference to your point man. The Wolvy
in Morrigan/Wolverine didn’t help you win anymore than the Jin in Morrigan/Jin
did. The closest thing was using x/Strider for the orb duo. Your gameplay
changes dramatically with the team you choose in MvC2. Cable/Doom is very
different from Cable/Cyclops. Doom/Storm is not Doom/Blackheart. Slapping three
top tiers together will not make a good team. An example is
Magneto/Cable/Blackheart. They all get in the way of each other - the most
viable duo is Cable/BH, which is easy to get around with thought.

As for balance, the ratio of 15:56 is brought up a lot. Tell me, can you make a
non-idiotic argument as to how a game with 15 playable characters out of 16 is
any better than a game with 15 out of 56? MvC1 had 8 characters that saw real
action in a tourney - Strider, Wolverine, WM, GWM, RV, Chun-Li (her aerial
threat was taken advantage of a lot), Captain Commando (to counter GWM), and
Hulk (to counter teams without a viable duo threat). MvC2 currently has a roster
of 15 tournament-viable characters, and it grows all the time as new shit is
discovered.

I think people complain because they don’t have the patience to play a fighting
game well. Patience isn’t a prized value in this country, I think. Hulk in MvC1
got you nowhere unless you were patient - that’s why so many people disregarded
him. And Cable/xx traps are hard to break if you lose your patience and just try
to hit Cable. I think people liked MvC1 because at an intermediate level, it
spoonfed hits to them, so everyone with a super combo was good. Whereas MvC2 at
an intermediate level is dominated by Cable and Sentinel trappage.

Patience is a virtue. Learn from your favorite kung fu movie! Sheesh.

MVC1 is trash. Let me make sure that that is absolutely known from jump.

First of all, MVC1 is totally dominated by five characters. To wit, if you do
not have one of the following five (5) characters on your team:

Gold War Machine
Red Venom
Strider
War Machine
Wolverine

You will die, in all sorts of entertaining ways. (if your opponent knows the
first thing about how to play the game)

BUT…

The major difference is, in MVC2 you will die in all sorts of unentertaining
ways, where after you are dead, you will fully understand that you had no
chance. MVC1 gives you the illusion that you could have won if you had just
blocked that one low jab, etc., when in fact, you still died at the select
screen.

Has anyone else ever noticed the following?

Intermediate level players tend to think MVC1 is great (or at least, better than
MVC2) and that MVC2 sucks.

Expert level players will tell you that MVC1 is trash, and MVC2 is really good.

Have you ever wondered why this is? It’s precisely because MVC1 lets you think
you have a shot. MVC2 at intermediate level is like:

rock (Cable)
rock (Doom)
rock (Sentinel)
scissors (everyone else)

MVC1 never really has this problem, as you can always pick whatever characters
you want and do your strategy (e.g. Soul Fist rain with Morrigan), it just won’t
work and you eventually die. In MVC2, you can’t even get your strategy started
because you can’t move, or BH assist is hitting you out of the sky every 3
seconds. It’s way more frustrating.

Not sure if anything’s changed between then and now, but general consensus is that 2 is still the best of the bunch.

EDIT: Fixed the link to the one supported by the new forums.

[AzureXIII]

Literally dismantled any of the points I thought I may have had. Thanks for the insight.

[The_Question]

Yeah this pretty much when I used red venom no one wanted to play with me. It was the only Marvel game I really ever played I loved watching 2 and 3 but I just never put the time into either. I still haven’t got marvel origins either was it any good or was it a really bad port? Haven’t really heard anything about it one way or the other as we have marvel 2 and 3 already so why bother.

[sethian0]

I played the shit out of it in the arcades as a kid. I liked the secret inputs to get good assists. Only thing that sucked was you only had a select # of times you could use a certain assist. Sorta whack. But it definately set the tone for those type of games.

[MajormelisThere]

I really really really like marvel 1 compared to two because its really really simple.

[pherai]

Fwiw I thought it had great aesthetics. Best stages in the vs series imo

[d3v]

Fwiw I thought it had great aesthetics. Best stages in the vs series imo

No laughing clown stage though.

[Korbidon]

Anyone have any Marvel 1 vids that show high level play?

[Louiscipher]

A re-balanced MVC1 would be interesting. Hell, even a game with similar gameplay would be the shit.

[DrSlouch]

I’m curious, because as informative as Viscant and the others’ posts are, they don’t really explain this: what was so broken about throwing in MvC1? Especially with Zangief?

[SirMixahLot]

Here’s a better question:
Do you like the fucking game?

Because who cares what other people consider it if you like it? I like SFxT… So fucking sue me. If you like MvC1, fucking play it and don’t let anyone tell you not to.

Anyone have any Marvel 1 vids that show high level play?

http://www.youtube.com/user/BahamianKing100/videos
e.g.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2hawlNm_2gc

[d3v]

A re-balanced MVC1 would be interesting. Hell, even a game with similar gameplay would be the shit.

Hmm, the thing is, I’m not really too keen on the whole helper system since it precludes using your teammate as an assist and limits team synergy.

[BrandeX]

So Marvel vs. Capcom is the original game now? /grin

Guess I’m getting too old.

[scytheavatar]

Anyone have any Marvel 1 vids that show high level play?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xwI0YoLOO4

[Louiscipher]

A re-balanced MVC1 would be interesting. Hell, even a game with similar gameplay would be the shit.

Hmm, the thing is, I’m not really too keen on the whole helper system since it precludes using your teammate as an assist and limits team synergy.

See, I like that you can select a Helper (or Striker, whatever term you prefer) and have a limit on their use. Make it more strategic. I don’t really like the other Marvel games and Marvel-like games where you can call out a Helper whenever you want. The problem with MVC1 is that only 2-4 Helpers were viable.

[DevilJin_01]

Somebody find that video of J.Wong vs. Magneto Maniac. Highest level Marvel 1 play ever.

[CaptainGinyu]

It’s interesting because you could argue that even today, Marvel is the ultimate select screen game. Sure you have X-Factor now but if I’m rolling with Phoenix on point, Arthur and Phoenix Wright and you have Zero May Cry or Morridoom, then I just game-overed myself.

Were the tier differences more visibile in MVC1 or MVC2?

[Hecatom]

A re-balanced MVC1 would be interesting. Hell, even a game with similar gameplay would be the shit.

Hmm, the thing is, I’m not really too keen on the whole helper system since it precludes using your teammate as an assist and limits team synergy.

I actually like the idea if the game were in the same vein of Vanguard Princess, Koihime Musou and Aquapazza.

[d3v]

A re-balanced MVC1 would be interesting. Hell, even a game with similar gameplay would be the shit.

Hmm, the thing is, I’m not really too keen on the whole helper system since it precludes using your teammate as an assist and limits team synergy.

I actually like the idea if the game were in the same vein of Vanguard Princess, Koihime Musou and Aquapazza.

But last checked, those weren’t team games.