For Low-tiers, i love Charlie.
Everybody uses guile for that type of character, but i like Charlie even if he is a downgraded Guile. He is my favorite character in alpha games. So i like to play him in MVC2.
I also like to play Dan. He is a neat, funny char, and his attacks do decent damage. I think his attacks hit harder than Ryu does.
Last but not least, Shuma gorath. I just wish the Chaos Dimension did MORE damage to justify 3 supers.
There’s a player here who’s really good with Charlie. Charlie/Doom is retardedly underrated.
Charlie is pretty neat. His main detriment is that his AAA sucks compared to guile’s because it misses crouching magneto and storm. (although it nails their tri jumps perfectly, and when he’s on point the flash kick is a pretty good option against tri jumpers when you have a assist to cover you in case they block.)
Other than the AAA charlie is overall better than guile. He has a kick throw he can combo off of anywhere in the screen (they can tech fall, but if you have REALLY good execution you can hit them before they even hit the ground).
A combo I’ve been trying lately is:
Kick Throw -> Instant Dash, DF+HP (launch) ^ j. lk, j. mp xxx HK Razor Kick (wait till you almost land) J. HK on the way down, dash into launch ^ j. lk, j. mp, j. mk, xxx Razor Kick or Heavy Attack
It does 92 damage! (Basically, it’ does slightly more damage than collosus’ launch, air combo, xxx power tackle xxx power dive combo, and this is without meter)
Still I still find it way too unreliable in real matches because of how hard it is to dash in immediately. When comboing off a throw I find the classic dash in c. lk (when they are on the floor, if you time this right the throw is unrollable), c. hp (launch) into basic air combo.
The only problem with the first combo is that the razor kick part is rollable, most people don’t fight charlie though so they might not expect it/know about it. If people start rolling you can just do a regular air combo instead. If you have a assist like commando you can add that into the air combo if you time it correctly (you have to hit them with a jumping medium attack immediately after commando hits so they don’t zoom away) and do around 80 or so damage anyways. This is off a throw mind you.
Some charlie notes:
Really retarded air control. If you’re fighting sentinel and you have charlie/commando as your assists they will have a really hard time staying in the air.
Sonic boom is really useful for zoning (think cyclops’ hp attacks) and preventing hail. It’s just that it’s very liable to get cancelled out by drones or storm’s projectiles. Luckily it’s a frickin sonic boom, so yea very short recovery.
Air razor kicks are very good for covering distance and delaying your landing. With certain setups they are also decent throw set ups (since they don’t hit as far as they appear they do) and in they air you can cross up your opponent and j. rh them from the other side.
back + HK is a overhead. Use with moderation of course since it is something they actually intended to be in the game. With the right assists you can end up comboing off of it. If you’re inhumanly good at dashing immediately afterwards then you might consider:
c. lk, c. mk (call sent-a) immediately go into the overhead (don’t wait too long or you won’t recover in time) as sent hits your opponent dash in -> launch into air combo. (Roughly 80 damage). Hey and if they block the overhead+assist, just try to dash in and kick throw them and possibly get the air combo anyways.
I’ve seen some people make a error with the razor kick command so I’ll just clarify it right now. The command is U, F + K. It is not U, F, D + K. With the U, F + K command you’ll find it’ll come out much more consistently, and you can even do it much closer to the ground.
DHC options - Charlie can always safely dhc in with his sonic break super (99% of the start up lag is negated when he’s dhced in). When fully mashed it does a decent ammount of chip too. He can dhc out almost any time aswell, since his sommersault justice has a respectable ammount of invincibility and it has quick start up time.
Good normals include: J. lk (neutral) very good when trying to hit people above you. J. HK good reach, good damage, alot of active hit frames. J. HP good priority. DF+HP comes out at a relatively decent speed. Finally down+ j. lk and j. mk have cross up properties.
Charlie Comboes:
BnBs
c. lk, c. mk, F+HP xxx Crossfire Blitz (qcf+KK super)
57 damage
(corner option)
If you do it in the corner or near the corner you can follow up with this:
c.lk, standing mp (they should drop to the ground immediately)
then either go for a throw, or overhead+ assist (which can easily add 60 or more damage to the combo as a reset)
c. lk, s. hp xxx crossfire blitz
51 damage and you still have the reset option in the corner.
c. lk, c. mk xxx sommersault justice (qcb+kk super)
Note: Whenever you do this on normal chars and even on sent to a degree, make sure to do it AS CLOSE AS POSSIBLE. If not the last hits of the super are liable to miss which is why I prefer crossfire blitz comboes. Sentinel is a bit taller so you might get away with a little more space, but remember if you miss YOU DIE.
(corner)
Kick Throw (no need to dash), C. HP (launch) ^ air combo ending with j. hp, j. hk -> hold foward + j. hk on the way down to otg them, (land) s. lk, s. mk, s. hk (or s. lk, s. mp) ->
Throw or Overhead reset attempt. Easily get 100% damage on everyone except sentinel. Here’s another good throw set up when you land from the air combo ->
standing lk, f+ HK. This doesn’t combo, it’s not supposed to, but it’s perfect for throw attempts. (moves you in, and they are instantly in a throwable state since you hit them in the air and they immediately land) Just don’t do it too late or you will hit them when they are already grounded and you will be considerably pushed back.
The sweep has a very limited sj. cancel timing (my best advice is to put it on neutral and do the command right when he connects)
If you do the razor kick too high it won’t connect. And oh yea it’s rollable.
It’s still flashy as all hell though, if you hit that on someone give yourself a pat on the back because you are the uber leet master king.
And yea that’s really all I know. There are some more assist specific stuff but that’s really it. Sorry if it was long winded, I just kinda turned on the game and tried to put down almost everything I knew. Good luck charlie players, you may just need it.
My regards
^ Good stuff for Charlie!
Yea just thought I’d mention a few more things.
Crossfire blitz has considerable invincibility after it’s (long) start up. Basically after the hyper combo screen shows up he has a good second or two of invincibility. It’s good for passing through projectiles, it just takes alot of timing because of how long the start up is.
Sommersault Justice can sometimes tear completely through HSF. The first few seconds are invincible of course, but at certain times charlie’s projectiles can actually negate the whole thing and end up hitting sent. (for 15 or so damage, but still that’s not the point.) Experiment with it in training mode. You always have the option of DHCing into someone else that can hit sent (Sentinel’s qcf+PP, Juggernaut’s Headcrush, Proton Cannon ect.)
Juggernaut A is really good with Charlie’s overhead, and it’s really good to combo in his sonic break. (which if you mash fully you can tag in juggernaut as part of the combo and possibly hit a glitched headcrush)
The sonic break combo I’m experimenting with is:
c. lk, s. hp (call jugg-a) xxx Sonic Break (Fully Mashed he should throw around 15 sonic booms. The reason it has to be fully mashed is to give juggernaut enough time to get out of the screen in order to tag him in.) -> tag in, Headcrush (Mash)
If you can’t get all 15 sonic booms, but can get 12 consistently here’s this combo just for you.
c. lk, s. hp (call juggs-a) xxx sonic break (do 12 hits) immediately after you recover do a instant razor kick with fierce kick. (remember it’s just u, f, +k)
It will move you in and give you more screen space, the sonic booms will take longer to hit and you can tag in juggernaut. For the curious I’ll tell you why it works. More screen space = more space to push your opponent back. Your sonic break booms will push back your opponent so it will take longer for the next set of booms to hit him. However, it can’t push him back if you are both at maximum distance away from each other. That’s why you do the razor kick, to give the screen more space to push your opponent back. I know most people already know this, but just thought I’d explain it anyways.
I doubt I’ll come up with anything else.
Later
I love gief, especially in marvel. He may not be top tier but he has his tricks. Here is all of my gief-related knowledge. (I play Mags(A)/Gief(A)/Sent(Y))
GIEF SPECIFIC NOTATION
SPD (Spinning Pile Driver) - 360 + p
note: Air SPD can grab characters on the ground
FAB (Final Atomic Buster) - 360 + p
RBG (Running Bear Grab) - hcf + k
ARS (Aerial Russian Slam) - dp + k
BF (Banishing Flat) - dp + p
lariat - pp or kk
nuts - df + k throw
bite - hk throw, k after dash
flop - d+hp in air
Using the Ground Assist (A)
Iron Man
Using the Throw Assist (B)
Magneto
SNEAKY DHCs - The reason to play gief. Sure, you can go for lariat xx FAB, but why not give every character FAB? Thanks to DHCs you can. This is also good for those who haven’t got the hang of the 360 motion, because you can do it during the super screen.
Magneto
GENERIC DHC SETUPS
NOTE - for shits and giggles, other throw supers may be subbed in for FAB (akuma/d.sakura raging demon, dan suicide, sim yoga strike [specific DHCs only], bb hood hyper apple for you)
ARS MOVEMENT
COMBOS/THROW SETUPS
Follow up Throws
-RBG
-FAB
-SPD (can be jump in)
-Dash
-walk up nuts
-psychic lk ars
HK cancels
Fun semi-useless stuff. Do both the down and up of the sj on the second hit.
Combos
w/thanos(a)
-cr.lk, s.hk + thanos, sj cancel, sj.lk, sj.hk
w/spiral(a)
-cr.lk, s.hk + spiral, sj cancel, sj.lk, sj.hk, follow up throw
RANDOM NOTES
That’s most of it. Will post last bit later.
I only read the last two pages so I’m not sure if anyone discussed the awesomeness of this guy but Spiderman is a really good “low” tier character to choose. U can his air webball to force a defensive player forward and his light kick has good range and priority. I may use Spi/Char/Thanos or Spi/Wolvi/Thanos or put T.Bonne in there for damage. If I’m playing a good player I’ll use T.Bonne. But if not Spidy and Thanos kills. I’m hoping to put up some vids on this.
General Gief Notes
-you can air spd standing characters
-learn to make use of alpha counters. His (a) version has high priority and can lead to a surprise FAB, while his (b) version has super armour and almost always connects vs. a blocked trijump.
-(a) is like a ghetto psylocke. It may not have the invincibility, but it sets up for supers, snaps and can be used for guard breaks (call gief, jump plus attack, assist hits).
-(a) also sets up for overheads. Since it only hits high opponents tend to duck, thus giving an overhead opportunity.
-simple snap combo: any (non command) throw in corner, otg s.lk, snap
-you can ‘float’ in the air by just doing whiff spds. Good vs sentinel who will want to ub you whenever you jump.
-Empty jump ins are your friend. If you do knees (d+lk) or flop or lariat while jumping, you don’t get to do anything else until you land so be wary.
-Poke and poke and poke. His normal lights may not be on par with other chars, but they are pretty good for block strings and more importantly, setting up throws.
-Don’t rush blind, you’ll get killed. Play smart and deliberately.
On Mecha Gief
-mecha gief (rdp+lk) can’t block, but cannot be hit out of anything, only thrown
-you can cancel into transform during a lariat. Example combo to set this up: (blocked) cr.lk + call assist, s.lp, lariat xx transform.
-use sparingly. Not a bad idea in a 1v1 situation (depending on who its against). Not worth it to pop first thing in a round and switch.
-fire is good to stuff other assists
-remember to switch playstyles. Mecha gief can’t block so go all out.
Gief is a tough character to use. I really like using Gief/Psylocke duo simply because it discourages people from randomly mashing out of throw attempts. If they try to mash they get hit by psylocke, you launch them with df+hp before they hit the ground, or c. lk (otg), c. lp (this is harder to time in the heat of battle btw), then air combo into SPD.
Since SPD is a throw it still does good damage since it doesn’t get scaled by Psylocke’s assist. Another cool trick with Gief/Psylocke is when you’re close:
(Call Psylocke) + d, b, + lp (close) command throw. (the one where he throws them up in the air). You can then air combo off of it into a air SPD. This is rather hard to pull off aswell.
Minor Gief Notes:
You can use the DP+HK, DP+LK, and Glowing Fist to gain distance (although DP+HK is sometimes unsafe, DP+LK is good for baiting out hail storms when they think you’re going to do the long one, and he still gains some good distance anyways)
DP+LK has much better throw priority than DP+HK
Running Bear Grab (HCF+K) is pretty useful when used sparringly after block strings.
Your main objective with gief is to somehow, someway land a air combo that ends with a SPD. If he lands two air comboes the opponent should be dead or damn close (unless it’s sentinel, in which case I suggest NOT starting gief since you’ll have a hard time getting close or even getting away from him).
Df+HK throw (Nut grab) has alot of damage potential. I’ve easily gotten 40 damage or more (which is SPD level damage).
If you end a air combo with a J. HP you have a lot of options. One of which includes using the flying screen dash as a throw (best option is probably kick throw if it lands). You can also do a tiger knee SPD if you think they’ll stay on the ground or jump neutral. Or a ARS if you think they’ll jump away. My personal opinion on the matter is to just perfect the air SPD combo, the guarenteed damage is just better.
Super Atomic Buster is one of the fastest supers in the game, very good for DHCing Gief out.
Personally my favorite goof around gief team is Zangief/Storm/Psylocke (don’t use it, it sucks). a.k.a ZSP a.k.a Team Zcrub.
I would never recommend playing gief unless you have a death wish. Extreme patience and perfect execution (of the SPD combo) are the best assets to a MVC2 Gief player and even then I’d suggest a extra roll of quarters because you will be losing A LOT.
I agree, I use spider-man as well. hes really fast and his lp air web ball and ground webballs come out so quick it can stop a rushing in mags in his tracks, only problem is dealing with sentinal. do you know any good damaging comboes with him? the only one i know is his reset using his air web ball.
Just got a minor addition for Gief regarding meter building. You can tap sj.HP or sj.HK and immediately cancel to a whiffed aerial SPD and repeat. It’d kinda like mashing out QCB+HK with with Spiral.
One thing to definitely learn is how to time aerial SPDs to connect from various heights in air to air situations. Ex: figure out the timing for when they are on the way up, you follow, you SPD at the apex versus when they are at the apex of their jump, you super jump and catch them on their descent. It’s helped my low-tier Gief game quite a bit. Doom rocks and Captain Corridor are pretty OK for boo-boos, i.e. when you get stuffed.
Every once in awhile I’ll have a random God-sent win with Gief that makes me want to build a team around him, but its such a lost cause.
A question:
When I do SPDs on the ground, sometimes Gief goes right and sometimes left… is their any logic to this?
Also, have you guys ever tried using a programmable pad to give Gief a command dash? Seems like he’d be instantly 90% better.
I’d just like to say, that this thread is good. I’ve always been a big fan of “low tiers” since the beginning, and big guys have always been my forte. Unfortunetly, I’ve been out of the game for awhile now, and never had a chance to make videos of my unusual teams, especially my team “strong” (Juggs, Hulk, Colossus) have been most notorius in the southeast. They are alot better than most people give them credit for, and I’m glad to see people are still holding down the low tiers. Keep it up.
Low-tiers are COOL…mainly because 95% of the character roster is composed of them!
Guys who are like “Play God tiers or don’t play at all” are annoying to me. So many cool characters around who got stuck in the low-tiers list, and many are afraid to even try them out because they know they’ll get spammed to DEATH by the God-tier players.
Also coincidentally the only MvC2 players I’ve known to claim the game was getting old and boring, were the God-tier exclusive users. Well duh! It no doubt would get boring if all anyone EVER picked with the same 4-5 chars.
[/End semi-rant]
^^^^^I had no idea hayato had infinites because of the lag in most of his moves.
I’m playing Charlie and Samurai lately. Charlie’s Super Flashkick works well to DHC into Samurai’s lightning. I’ll wait till the 3rd charlie flashkick that sends the character into the air a bit, before bringing in samurai.
Works better than Guile’s Sonic hurricane. As the character is more likely to hit the ground while being hit by lighting and blocking most of it, where as Charlie’s super knocks them up in the air so samurai can come in for uninterrupted lighting :smokin:
I was beasting with low tiers this weekend. no storm/cable/magz/or sent. 
though IM a bit…but that’s because he works well with keepaway and megaman/marrow/captn america/anakaris/etc.
I’m gonna use some others too
was nice showing them god tiers who’s boss
Really long, mostly boring vids, mostly “low tier” characters.
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Thanks for this. I’ve been getting more into MvC2 since it’s just about the only 2D fighter people play in my area and by great stroke of luck I play Juggs(Glitched)/Charlie/Doom.
The team is VERY good for low tiers in my humble opinion. While Charlie is out, calling the Doom assist and coupling it with a LP Sonic Boom is great to keep pressure on. Juggs can do his belly flop when people jump in, and anyways your Charlie is charging his moves isn’t he? It’s really easy to combo into the qcb+kk hyper, and once you get that in, free headcrush. Juggs can deal insane damage off simple combos, and if worst comes to worst, your last character is DOOM, who can wreck people. I love it
No Spiderman love?
^I play Spidey with T.Bonne capture. Can’t say I’m great but I can sure as hell hang…