=== The New Low Tier Thread <(''<) ===

My current low tier team is Hayato/Gambit/Tron.

I never realized how crazy Hayato’s range was until I started playing with him again seriously…Land one jumping Hp and combo into his QCF+PP and then DHC with Gambit…good stuff. What I need is a serious AAA though, as I lose to any team that runs away…

A friend and I play mid/low tier a lot. If I can I’ll get some vids up soon.

I thought I post a vid of Juggernaut of the damage he can do when he’s glitched, man more peeps should use him

Any Chun-Li players???

She has a lot o f potential if u really get into her. I will try to make a profile of her… cause I need help to improve her too -__-

ok… Iwill try start something…

have anyone tried Chuns’s infinite( the oine of Air dash sj.lk, sj. lk, sj. hk, land, repeat)? in the infinite topic tells u can only do in doom and tall chars… but if u try ir u can do in “nornal” ones like with cable… and has a good setup too:

c.lk, s.lp sjxx ad sj.lk, sj.hp, f+sj.hk, land continue…u can go only for the air dashstuff in normal jump too… its pretty intresting… when u make 4 repetition of the air dash, u make like 50% of damage in cable…

so… anyones knows anything else like… not only combos…? -__-

He’s should do a commercial for Campbell’s Soup… CHUNKY!!!

:cool:

Anyone got any gief combos, either using him as an assist or with other assists?

ROLL

Stamina - She takes horrible damage. 137% (dont get hit)

Rating: Not so good

Defense - Thanks to her small size, it can be said that her defense is somewhat decent. She also ‘floats’ when she decending from a sj. allowing her to avoid certain attacks. She can also delay her decent with roll busters and flower bombs as well. On the ground, she can be a hard target to hit as well, especially when you hide her behind good assist-which roll relies a lot on.

Rating: Decent

Ability to land comboes - do not try and land combos with roll. Most of your damage should come from throws, slide attacks, and assist.

if you do manage to get in close enough to land a combo with roll, it should be c.lp, c.lp [mini launcher]. this sets up for some fun stuff like:

-c.lp, c.lp, pause, throw
-c.lp, c.lp, pause, throw into assist
-c.lp, c.lp, c.fk will slide under some characters. this sets up for assist resets like:
-c.lp, c.lp, c.fk + tron proj, reset, c.lp, c.lp, throw.
-c.lp, c.lp, c.fk + doom. if they block, they eat chip damage-try and set up a tick throw. If they eat rocks, j.fp into rocks, land, [tick] throw.

She has corner throw reset combos that do decent damage:
-launch, sj.lp, lk, lp, lk, fp, throw, lp, lp, roll buster xx hyper-roll is the basic one.

Rating: Poor.

Mobility - she isn’t the most mobile character, but she can cover a lot of ground. Her ‘floaty’ sj./dj allows her to cover much ground and avoid a lot of attacks (on the ground). her dash [hop] also covers a fair amount of ground as well. wave x 3 covers full/nearly full screen. Not great, but its better than other characters that also lack an airdash of any type.

Rating: OK.

Damage Output - Roll alone = laughable. Unless its being done on akuma. With assist = reasonable. Like I said above, most of her damage will be coming from assist and throws.

Rating: LOL.

Chip - her rush drill does chip damage. I think her roll buster and flower bombs to chip as well. Nothing worth mentioning, though. She uses her assist [dooms rocks] to do the chipping work. In the corner she has [weak] lockdown with dooms rocks-if you manage to land this, you can chip away a decent amount of life from your opponent.

-corner: c.lk, c.fk + doom xx leaf shield, [doom hits/chips] c.lk, c.fk xx throw leaf shield, c.lk, c.fk + doom xx leaf shield, repeat.

-if they push block, throw leaf shield, wave dash in after them and repeat.

-midscreen: c.lp, c.lp + doom, c.fk [blocked].

Rating: solo-poor. Assisted-decent

Prescence (assist/dhc/counter possibility) - very laughable. I usually play roll on point till she dies, because she really has nothing going for the team in other slots. DHC or counters are just horrible and her assist are nothing special.

Her flower bomb assist is probably her best because
-it stays on screen for a while, so you can actually have two assist as the same time.
-it can mess up a flying sent, not damage wise, but if he’s in range and throws out a limb, it’ll hit (and thats funny)
-if you combo it it, it cause a dummy flip (at any height) and that sets up some nice crossups…ex:

-doom: c.lp, c.lp, c.fp + roll flower assist, sj.lp, sj.lp xx air dash forward, assist hits from behind, land, dash under during dummy flip, oc.fk [reset] sj.lk, lk, apa

Rating: Poor

Other - Wow, roll is a horrible character. She is gonna rely heavily on assist or the other 2 characters are going to be doing most of the work. You rarely should be on the offensive with roll, but rather have your opponent advance towards you. Use your assist to counter and to tack on damage.

I find that roll + right assist can cause some problems for certain characters. like

-Roll [rockball] + commando/guile/bh AAA can be a bit of a problem for flying sent.
-Roll [rockball] + doom rocks/sent ground can be a problem for mags and storm.

-her rock ball comes out the fastest and is the best choice to use out of the three. Her leaf shield is ridiculously slow with its startup and should only be done in certain situations. Namely, that corner lockdown.

-c.lk, c.lk, c.fk [blocked] is super safe. pause afterwards, if the opponents moves-AA assist.

-c.lk, c.lk, c.fk [opponent rolls], fp roll buster. timing is a bit iffy, but as soon as the opponent is past roll, do a fp roll buster - it comes out fast enough so that when the opponent is waking up from the roll, they’re forced to blocked the roll buster. call in assist right before, then wave dash in afterwards.

-c.lp, c.lp, pause, fp throw [opponent rolls], call sent ground, dash back. rolls back dash covers enough ground so that she’s right in the opponents face as he wakes up. after the dash, tap down, pause, tick throw into sent assist. or tap down, block, opponent blocks assist, walk forard, tick throw.

-air roll buster/flower bombs avoids sents laser death

-j.lp, pause, roll buster is her guard break [of doom]

…thats about it for now. ROLL-ownz.

Can someone do Bison please?

Dhalsim,low tier?
U guys didn’t see Magnetro2000 Dhalsim DVD tut?

I think Dhalsim is high tier.I think he’s just harder to learn,but check out his tut and you’ll see why i say he’s high tier

Edit: someone do wolvie or wolvies please.

Played with Bonerine and sent for a while so I’ll do Bonerine.
You wouldn’t really want to play Bonerine(BW) without sent anyway - his stamina compensating for BW, drones helping with chains/block stun and slide assist (variety) giving sent nasty unblockables after flying screen.

Stamina - don’t get hit… 137% :sad:

Defence - mostly relies on sent drones and beserker barrage (qcf +P)to keep people pinned. His d+Lk can go under psylocke assist. Has good range on his airthrows.

Ability to land combos - reasonable unless he’s fighting fly back sent or floating storm. Can do j Hp/j Lk overheads with drones and drill claws, his jumping Hk can cross up. Can tick throw (use Hp … does more damage).

Damage output - best damage comes from his corner combos or comboing BBX into HSF. Can combo from d+Hp unlike wolverine.

combos…
d+Lk, d+mk, d+ Hp, qcf + Hp ( after 5?IIRC hits ) xx BBX . Unless your execution is really good not something to rely on. If near the corner call drones with D+ Hp, beserker barrage, BBX when drones hit, then do s lk, d + Hp, J and airthrow.

Other corner stuff - can do mk, HK and drones (after his d+ Mp), sj Hk, drill claw, drones hit, falling Lk close to landing, relaunch into aircombo… drill claw, or airthrow, yada yada.
Unlike wolverine, Bonerine can follow up after launch, magic series, drill claw in the corner.

Mobility - good for a character with no airdash. Can do wall jumps, call assists after his dive kick, and has one of the fastest ground dashes in the game ( up there with magneto and cammy). Can do double snapbacks.

Chipping - good with drones or Doom rocks behind him. Builds meter quite well - qcf + P doesn’t build all that much - chains and using drones does more.
Need to be wary of counters ( eg cyke counter in gene splice XX SOB), and you can be thrown during beserker barrage if your opp. pushblocks. By himself his Hp beserker barrage has lag when mashed.

Presence - as mentioned at the start, really helps sent…great DHC . I play BW with cyke as third, slide assist is discreet, can help cyclops get otg’s if people are slow to roll.

Other things - worst match up is storm or sent ( probably sent cos’ of his damage output), assists such as cyclops, Doom rocks, and Tron can cause problems.

If you hit an assist character with weapon X it will continue ( unlike wolverine), has strange properties IIRC it gives him invulrenability to certain attacks (beams?) until the super finishes. Also, has a bug with Weapon X where he stops halfway through - and opponent is stunned/ twitches for a second or two - happens when it hits someone who is slightly airborne - mess around with drones and beserker barrage in training mode.

Can hurt assists reasonably well with drones and beserker barrage - but pay attention to the point character. Easy to hurt commando assist if the opponent has say, cable on point and they are in the corner. Asking for trouble on people like sent who can distance themselves well.

Throws - best to use his Hp throw - does more damage when mashed IMO, and he can follow up if he throws someone into the corner.

Tired… will add more/edit later.

Nice shit man.Thx for the info.Feel free to add more if u like.

Edit: does cyke helps bone wolvie or that’s just for sent?

Cyclops AAA is for both (more so for sent I geuss)
but with BW he helps alot against magneto and teams that lockdown/chip alot (e.g Doom rocks), plus he can help him get overhead combos ( after flying screen, call cyclops, small pause, j Lk overhead). And the general stuff cyclops adds to teams (nice counter, chipping , getting meter)

Playing BW against MSP the other day, did a weapon X on psylocke assist, storm did a hailstorm - came out damage free. :amazed:

Good assist kill ( near corner) d + Hp and drones, qcf + HP, drones hit, qcf + Hp, BBX, into sent plasma ball ( qcf+2P). Geussing it is pushblock escapable somewhere

so… today… how the Low Tier List would look like?

And someone could do the Chun data -__-

I have a few solid things with her that some may find useful. I used to play her but she is just too much of a skill smith just to do anything with. Definetly not an easy character to play effectively with.

she lacks in long range game. Her limbs are extemely tiny so she’ll need some help in the range game. Drones or typoon from storm.

IMO she needs tron. Tron helps the low tiers step up and allows them compete. Personally I hate tron but she offers too much to just ignore. Besides, chuns normals into supers dont combo into each other other than the s.fk srk super. Never count on sweep super because those get rolled. Tron allows chun to perform her short short super which she needs.

She has instant overhead, sj.lk which is pretty useful behind an assit. I dont know if her j+d.rh is an overhead but its not that hard to test.

her super jump square jump instant cancel with lk is what allows her to shine in close. This can be done very low to the ground and you get deep overhead moves from both sides.

triple jump- which allows you to jump around assist relatively easy. Her short hop is another great trick because you get one more jump + sj properties. Short hop is sj then double jump immediately. Your character will jump much lower to the ground and still be able to have sj properites. Not needed but allows her to get mobile from time to time.

whenever you get a flying screen with chun, normal jump dash over the opp + tron, then fk lighting kicks. Around 80% life. Mash that shit!

IMO it should be chun ron\xxx. The xxx should be a character that helps her long range game. IMO storm may work better but sent is another worthy character. I never tested any of sents dhc’s with her but if they work, shit pick sent.

chuns AA is pretty solid. It hits multiple times allowing you to follow up in most cases.

I called Mags-a. Venom did a ground dash and tried to go under it. Seeing the ground dash I AHVB’d because I thought the EM Disrupter would hit for sure. I mean, he was deliberately dashing into it, wasn’t he?

Well, there’s good news, bad news, and worse news.

==The good news is…==
=Venom didn’t block the AHVB. I killed him for it.

==The Bad news is…==
=The EM Disrupter missed him completely. His dash made it completely miss. Had he blocked the AHVB, he could have saved himself.

==The worse news is…==
=Had that been a player, he might have called something to take me out of the HVB.

==Examples of bad things that could easily have happened to me…:==
-He could have called an AA like Ken-a, then air comboed us both.
-He was in range that Psyolcke could have hit. This means he could have double snapped, then venom fanged my Magneto assist…]

If it is true that Venom can ground dash under EM Disrupters, Cable loses one of his best assists. You CAN shoot players for getting hit by this on reaction. If Venom can ground dash past the EM Disrupter, he might even be able to wavedash under it. Also, I see no difference in height between his ducking lp and his ground dash meaning he might even be able to combo you under it.

I might do a secondary verification of this, or maybe you can do one, but it’s a very safe bet that Venom can ground dash under the EM Disrupter assist. The timing might be a bitch though.

EDIT: Independent verification of being able to ground dash under the EM Disrupter. I may need to have whether or not you can low jab or wavedash under it next.

There was a vid (nekosaru? i think) that had at the end a few things venom can dash under. I’ll look it up.

random thing

Got a new copy of MvC2 a few weeks ago, and it seem this combo doesn’t work? Maybe it was a different version of the game, I don’t know…but I can’t seem to do the FSD stuff with Spider-Man anymore.

THX Shoultzula, its good to hear some good stuff bout her!

U right at a point, tron its like Sent-a, insane damage for free and an in a easy way too…

but I think Chun has a lot of versality too… like… u said some good stuff bout randon low kicks combos… but she has good combos in air too, middle screen, one of then I like:

launcher /\ sj.lk, sj.mp, sj.d+hk xx dash, j.lk + magneto-a, j.f+hk.

In that situation, the char will fall in the EM disruptor, and leave u enought time to land and do an huge among of sttufs… like:

  • s.hp xx qcb.kk - easy and good damage.
  • s.hp xx sj xx dash, j.lk - j.mp, land: Here u can switch sides as a good reset.
    - j.mk, j.hk 1 hit, land - qcb.kk: Nice combo with 1 bar.
    - s.lp, s.mp xx sj.dash, j.lk, j.hk 1 hit,
    land, repeat: A hard infinite, but possible.
    *s.hp, s.hk /\ sj.lk, sj.mp, sj.d+hk xx dash, j.lk, pause, jump, j.lk, j.mp, j.d+hk, jump, j.lk, j.mp, j.mk, j.hk: nice build bars and nice damage.
    *s.hp, s.hk /\ sj.lk, sj.mp, sj.d+hk xx dash, j.lk, j.mp, pause(change sides in air),jump, j.lk, j.mp, j.d+hk, jump, j.lk, j.mp, j.mk, j.hk: Same as before but with a good reset… . not that useful…

And these kind of combos are possible with other assists like ironman-b, dhalsim b-c, psy… and so.

one thing good to bait assist is to random air dash with nothing, when an assist comes to counter(lkike comando) u can cancel that air dash with a jump , so u can block it. good if u have a good assist to punish or something like that…

I like to use that like this:

j.lk + storm-a, j.d+hk xx dash, j.d+hk xx jump foward.
The jump its to get near, if u dod do, Chun will come out after the stomp and will get too far do combo, super or anything, with the jump u will just be cole enought to do anything.

I think your right, too much work for less results, buts its a char I like, and I lonly found any hope for her in her stomps(put her in normal jump so can call assists and stuffm, and insane meter build with triple jumps), but… even like that… its hard to get near alone, Iagree…

one more thing… I my lowest height of her square jumpwas with j.hk second hit and stomp… can hit ppl crounch defended!!!

but I think only that she is better then ppl say she is (like… rated as botton tier, above only of roll and dan,… too unfair).

I have more stuffs bout her and so… but I want to get more deep in that stuff and make a decent work… for now thats it… thx for the information… can someone say anything more bout chun please? =p…

ps: again, wich is now the Tier list of the Low tiers?

Here’s what I just posted in the Hayato thread, figured it fit in here aswell:

Alright I’ve been messing with hayato alot lately so I’ll make a small thread with a few tips and tricks on who I consider to be a pretty underrated character.

Tip # 1:
Know when to use the command throw and how to do the command throw.

First execution wise the command throw is tricky, and if you fuck up you’ll do a plasma sword super with a pretty laggy recovery at the end. Here’s my break down on the throw:

Execution:

B, F + PP. Sounds simple right? Except if you’re sloppy you’ll get FUCKED UP. My advice is to think of the command as almost a back, up, foward + PP. Really all you want is the control not to get a down input when you do the throw. This method probably works better for people using controls and not joy sticks. Remember to only graze (if that) the up, you don’t actually want to input a up command, you just want to stay the hell away from down.

Landing the Throw:

It’s pretty hard. Three things are going against you: 1) The throw is close range 2) Hayato is a poking character, so it’s odd for him to be at such close range.
3) The throw has some start up.

It’s still pretty useful, especially as a surprise move. However, getting in throwing range can be tricky. Here are my favorites:

a) Dash in standing lk, throw
b) Fake jump in HP or HK, throw
c) After assist, dash in throw
d) After flying screen, throw (BEWARE OF ASSISTS!)
e) Dash jump over opponent, Sword Dive (D+HK) miss and throw. (use assist for coverage)
f) In corner, HP Throw, (wait till they land) command throw
g) In infinite super mode, after a blocked B. Hayato (people tend to turtle up
during infinite super mode)

Most of the other ones are pretty assist dependant, and involve throwing them right before the assist hits.

Comboes After Throw

A) Go straight into qcf+KK super
B) Dash, d.hk (juggle otg), qcf+HP (one hit) xxx qcf+KK super (recommended)
C) Walk foward, c. HP (launch) into magic series ending with HP --> HK
D) Same as C. but end with LP or HP uppercut xxx qcb+KK super
E) (Corner Only) walk foward, c. HP (launch) into j. lk, j. mp, j. mk, HP uppercut
xxx qcb+kk super (HP uppercut hits them up higher and lets you juggle them upon landing) when they land do c. hk (juggle) into B. Hayato (lp, hp, back, lk, hk)

Those are the main comboes and I’ll talk about execution tricks for doing the b. hayato during a hard combo next.

Tip # 2: This isn’t really neccesary, but some people want to be flashy and for that I suggest learning how to do B. Hayato in comboes. It can be hard for some people, I personally was having quite a bit of trouble with it, but you really don’t even need to be exceedingly fast to pull it off (it helps though). However, B. Hayato comboes are tricky enough that I would not rely on them and would limit my use of them as much as possible.

First combo:
b+hp, lp, hp, lk xxx light double slash (one hit) xxx b. hayato

This one is kinda tricky, but there’s a easier way to do it other than frantically pressing buttons. There’s a reason why we’re using the light double slash and that’s because we are going to use the lp from that input to finish the b. hayato button sequence (lp, hp, back, lk, hk). However, the trick here is to use the negative edge of the lp and not the lp itself to do it.

[Quick definition for those who don’t know what negative edge is:
Negative Edge - In capcom games when you press a button it counts as a input. However, when you hold down and then let go of a button it counts as another input.

For those of you new to the concept try this in training mode:

Pick Ryu, hold down lp, do qcf then let go of the lp. A hadouken should come out as if you pressed it.]

Anyways, the way the combo will go is like this:

<plasma string> lp double slash (hold down the lp) a half second after you input the command you let go of the lp button and input the rest of the command ( hp, back, lk, hk. )

It should come out more reliably then.

Second combo:
(Corner Only) walk foward, c. HP (launch) into j. lk, j. mp, j. mk, HP uppercut
xxx qcb+kk super. When they land do c. hk (juggle) into B. Hayato

This is mainly about the sweep into b. hayato part, which is also useful if you’re in infinite super mode and happen to land a command throw. Basically the trick is to input the b. hayato command immediately after pressing hk. With most moves, you can usually see some kind of hit confirmation or at least the start up of a move. Not in this case. Maybe I’m just slow, but the only way I can do it is if I assume the c. roundhouse will hit and start inputing the b. hayato command before the c. hk even starts up.

If you can land it after a qcb+kk air combo though, you can easily net damage of about 125 pts. on someone with 100% stamina.

Tip # 3: General gameplay.

As with any low tier you need patience and good blocking skills. Use your long reach and moderately strong air normals to your advantage. Know your character in and out and play to his strenghts. A good chain is: b. hp (plasma chain), lp, hp, lk. If you don’t hit and want to be completely safe you can just stop right there or even after a lp double slash in most cases, if you do hit you can do a lp double slash into a qcf+kk super for around 73 damage.

Another good bnb is max range c. lp, c. mp, lp double slash. If it’s blocked no big deal, but if you hit you can cancel the first hit of the slash into the qcf+pp super at max range.

That’s all I got for now, good luck!

do you know that Hayato infinite???
I know the commands.

My low-tier team is Hayato-b/Strider-b/Akuma-y