Oh you mean kill a assist after a double snap out? Oh ok I get it now. Venom still is a good character to dhc into, venom web can be pretty damaging as a dhc.
Venom Web does alright damage. I wouldn’t go for it unless I knew it could get them into the corner. Good tactic, if Sentinel is flying away from you, call Doom, do a fierce Web Throw into Veom Web. Looks cools, gets him out of the air.
It’s a good point; everybody has seen tier lists and said to themselves “well, I don’t understand why Character X is ahead of Character Y, but w/e”. I think it’s mostly a matter of the un-&-under-explored. But it’s theory fighter anyway, so it’s all good, any reasonably explicable opinion is welcome. 50+ characters is going to be hard to rank anyway, even with tiers.
I think Jugg falls into tier 2 if he’s not glitched, it magnifies his shortcomings a lot. Getting 33% or so for an unmashed HC just doesn’t smell like Tier 1 to me.
Hulk brings quick damage (expert hands to minimize retaliation), an OK ground assist and very good vertical offense to the table. Gamma Quake for THC is nice, but just a perk. Most THC-based offense is too “eggs in one basket” for real-world tourney play, even though it might steal you a match or two. I think Sonson AAA yields a “double crush”, not sure, check the older threads; Racewing had a list, the link may still work.
Keep posting if you have something worth sharing.
BB Hood
Stamina - Takes alittle above average 106%. Hey nobody’s perfect :pleased:
Rating: :wonder:
Defense - Her greatest Defense I’d say would be her s.hk or c.hk. Her Flaming Champagne isnt that bad at all either, just dont miss :rolleyes: . Her mine’s keep away SOME rushdown so that in itself takes most Magnetos but be careful and be sure to push block and spam a good AA assist like Doom to keep him away. Her hk(mine) however doesnt work so well against Storm. Storm is BB Hood’s worst match up which isnt good at all because a lot of people play her. Storm’s HK launch reaches quite a bit so the mine doesn’t affect her if she is trying to launch. Just jump as much as you can spamming assist to keep her away. Being in the corner isn’t always a bad thing when facing a Magneto, it limits his ways to rush you down.
Rating: :tup: :tup:
Ability to land comboes - BB Hood isn’t a combo machine but she can land combos pretty well if they are caught in the Doom(AA) assist. She Basically needs Doom to start most of her combos. Her combos are most effective when the opponent is in the corner cause you can mix it up. You just have to go for the combo that leads to Cruel Hunting for Big damage.
Rating: :wonder:
Mobility - Her dash isnt all that good but her double jump does more than make up for that. The double jump helps you go over many assists and when doing so you can also send out a doom to keep the assist busy :badboy:
Rating: :tup:
Damage Output - Cruel Hunting Need I say More? Her regular combos do little at times but Cruel Hunting does more than make up for that. Its all about having the upper hand in the match and keep your opponent scared while not being scared yourself.
Rating: :tup: :tup:
Chip - Her Chip is Great! Cruel Hunting + Doom = :encore: . Her flaming champagne does decent chip damage but can also keep them down for some Doom chip damage.
Rating: :tup: :tup: :tup:
Prescence (assist/dhc/counter possibility) - Her Projectile assist I would say is her best assist. Its not the best assist in the world but if you can work it with certain characters like Iron Man/War Machine it turns deadly. Her DHC’s are great too. Some times they don’t do the best damage depending on what super and how the opponent is positioned but with Beautiful Memory + 5 levels + having a team like BB Hood/Dr Doom/Iron Man you can dhc and perform some unescapeable kicks and punches into super making it a "I can can use all my 5 levels in escapable combo with dhc’s and without using Sentinel :wow: ". It only takes 2 Dhc’s(3 levels) to kill any character with BB Hood/Dr Doom/Iron Man. I really havent messed with her counter ability. I only do it when then opponent does a Hail Storm and I counter on the last peice of ice to BB Hood so she can have a head start with a Missile on the way and being able to move.
Rating: :tup: :tup: :tup:
Other - BB Hood(Proj)/Dr Doom(AA)/Iron Man(AA). Use it!! It has deadly DHC’s and good keep away. By looking at the Names you got hella chip damage heading your opponents way. BB Hood size is also a benefit. If you opponent ever misses a standing rocket punch and you duck it = Free Cruel Hunting for you. Be patient with her. She cant rush down but your patience might pay off with a combo into Cruel Hunting to DHC…
Thanks HJ for positive Rep :tup:
ill do a ruby heart guide today :karate: Augmint ,feel free to add some stuff to it, i know you use ruby too. :tup:
yo rate the tooth
:karate: Ruby Heart 
:encore:
Stamina- takes 100% damage
Rating -average
Defense- Ruby can fill the screen up with a lot of shit. Her water wave (qcf+kick) is a really good counter-move to fireballs. If they throw a fireball and you do the wave, the wave will erase the fireball! lol, i did the wave one time against akuma’s air fireball super, it erased like half of the fireballs, also against charlie’s sonic boom super, same thing happened. Also, when they are in blockstun from your assist, call out the ghost (Qcb+Kick) then superjump and you can do 5 or 6 RH in her superjump because her SJ RH’s recover quickly (thanks to augmint for that tip :karate: ). Both the ghost and wave are good moves cuz they dont have much recovery, you can move around right after you do those moves. You can keepaway and play defensive with ruby’s wave + a good assist that controls the ground area, like Sent ground assist, or some other projectile-type assist , or, even better DR. Doom AA (ruby+doom AA = really good combination :karate: more on that later…)
Rating- Good :tup:
Ability to land combos- Ruby can combo into her Hyper Schwairzalle(orange ball) super (qcf+2p) in a ground combo or air combo. In fact, if you meet 'em air to air in a super jump, and you hit em with just a weak attack like jab or short, you can combo from the jab/short, into her super.That’s because the super is “instant startup”, it comes out so fast. In the corner, she can do standing jab/short, St. Fierce,St. RH XXjab schwairzalle XX Hyper Schwairzalle(then aim up) for BIG damage. Even before you start the super, a lot of damage is taken off. If you connect with a hyper Schw. you can redirect it and launch em and do another hyper schw. (this is her semi-infinite). You can even redirect the Hyper Schw. at a different angle and land before they hit the ground and do Partinelle (ship super)(qcf+2k), it will combo (and its not a OTG) Also, if they get hit by a water wave, you can do fierce Schw XX hyper schw. it will all combo. Also, remember her guardbreak. When they are coming in,do jumping jab, then wait and do hyper schwa. What do you do if they try to take the hit? If they get hit by the jab, just cancel the jab into the hyper Schw. it will combo :karate:
Rating- Very good :tup: :tup:
Mobility- Ruby can get around. On the ground, she’s got averaging walking speed (not slow, but not fast like wolverine) and her wave dash is easy. If you do Hyper Schw. on the ground, you can cover a lot of distance to get closer to them(like if you block a Proton cannon, you can punish em with the super) she can also cross up with fierce schw., aim it so that it lands behind the other guy, while your assist is behind them. Or you can do a regular jump and do a jab/fierce schw. in the air to cross em up. Be careful about doing jab or fierce schw. in super jumps. You cant block until you hit the ground! I recommend that you don’t use regular schw. in super jumps at all unless youre going to cancel it. Cancel into the super, and aim the super down to the ground, there is almost no recovery if you stop the super by aiming it to the ground. :tup:
Rating- Good :tup:
Damage Output: Like i said before, you can combo into her hyper schw. super off of just a jab or short. also, short, short XX Partinelle almost anywhere on screen (it works if your back is closer to your side of the screen)And if you do a ground combo into Hyper Schw , you can aim it up/upforward for good damaage (im not really good at aiming the super though), or, what i like to do is, DHC to another super. you can do BIG damage if you connect with short,short XXHyperschw. u can DHC to gambit’s royal flush (all the cards will connect :karate: ), or captain america’s final justice , then DHC after either one of those into another super (this will probably kill em).Usually, when i use, ruby/samurai/doom, i do short,short HyperSchwa. frame kill to lighning super, then mash like hell. :karate: its even better when I do that against their assist, lightning super does CRAZY damage on assists, especially the big guys. Also, in the corner you can do a flying screen combo and when they are getting up do a tick throw into her fierce throw, if they forget to roll or techhit, you can do crouching jab(OTG), crouching fierce(launcher) then do another air combo :karate:
Rating- Good :tup: (solo) Very good :tup: :tup: (when you DHC to a poweful super)
Chip- One of Ruby’s strengths when she’s paired with the right assists (Doom :karate: ). Her wave move is a good lockdown move (it does like 3-4 hits,so the block stun is good), it does average chip on its own, and you can do blockstrings (short,short,RH XXwave, dash, repeat) with Ruby on point, but when you add Doctor Doom’s AA assist, you can really do a LOT chip. the basic string is short short,crouching Roundhouse+doom AA( its a whip, and it has really long range), you cancel the RH into wave, then call a ghost then dash, do short,short, cr. RH call doom AA again, repeat. you can juggle their assist with this pattern. also, if you hit em with crouching RH, and they dont roll, theyll get hit by doom’s rocks and the wave, you can even hit em with two waves in one combo if they dont roll. Bottom line, you can do a lot chip with ruby+doom AA. and it builds ALOT of meter.
Good- :tup: (without doom, using some other assist) Crazy - :wow: (with doom)
Presence- Ruby helps out the team in a couple of ways. first of all, she creates a “safe DHC” for any character. What you can do is, make sure the other guy is in blockstun from an assist, then do her ghost super(it has bad startup time ,so make sure they cant hit you out of the super) and DHC right away to another super. The ghosts will still be on screen for like 5-10 more seconds. So you can do ghosts DHC timeflip to get cable in safely, even ghosts DHC Proton cannon, if they block it its safe (but not if they are in the corner and you are close to them), with Ruby/Storm/doom, you can do “double hailstorm”…using doom’s AA assist. if their assist get juggled by doom’s rocks +the wave move, you can do ghosts DHC hailstorm, the ghost will still be on screen juggling their assist, then do another hailstorm, and it actually doesnt combo into the 1st one, but their assist is still on screen (so it resets,and does even MORE damage) this can take off 70-85% on their assist. (thanks to Augmint for this info :karate: ) Her AA assist is her best assist IMO, its 3 or 4 hits so it locks em down, you can cross em with a quick character on point, (use instant overheads ;etc) whle calling her AA assist. Only thing I don’t like is, her AA has a delay before it comes out, so she can be hit out of it. But, once the wave is out, it cant be stopped by anything, it will stay on the screen until it goes away by itself. You can do 3 rocket punch fastfly combos with sent on point (thanks to augmint again for that info), and this one combo i found with ruby AA with sent on point is standing short, standing jab+ ruby AA XX fierce rocket punch, (they get hit by the wave) then superjump and do jab jab fierce rocket punch (or a fast fly combo;etc) Also, you can call out a ghost and tag out and the ghost will still be on the screen. And the last thing, she has the “ghost glitch”, you call out a ghost then do snapback right away, the ghost will go straight up then disappear under the ground, but the ghost will still put them in blockstun even though its not on the screen… the video is on glitchvideos.com . BBHood can explain it better than me. :karate:
Rating- Good :tup:
Other:If you have ruby, ironman and cable or another character with a beam super, you can do this combo, standing short,short, push both assist buttons :karate: (this does almost the same damage as 3 AHVB’s) This works only if you choose Anti-air assist, if u choose that assist, her THC super is the ship super Try doing it with ruby heart/Ironman/megaman. or ruby/IM/hulk :badboy: ( i read in a old thread, if you have glitched juggenaut,and ruby on point, you can do short short, THC with ruby/bbhood/juggernaut, and it will kill their assist! :wow: ) You can also use her ghost super as “filler” between two supers. for example you can do IM proton cannon DHC ghosts DHC to cable HVB, and ALL the hits from the HVB will conect+the ghosts too. or proton cannon DHC ghost DHC doom electric cage. usually when u do, proton cannon DHC to elec. cage, it doesnt connect, but with this trick it will. also, on their assist you can do ghost DHC Proton cannon ,and its (mostly safe… excluding cable’s damn AHVB :rolleyes: ). just make sure their point character is in blockstun,so they cant super jump out of the way. In the corner you can also do Proton cannon DHC ghost DHC charlie’s auto combo super or venom web and the ghosts will still be on screen after their supers finish. so u can launch after the super;etc.
hey guys, dont be afraid to tear this apart and potentially hurt my feelings, as although i play often im just not that good at the game :tup:
guile
Stamina - regular old 100%
Rating: average
Defense - the flashkick can be used to fend off jumpers and has zero waiting time but it doesnt have the greated recovery if you miss. airborn flashkick is fun for flying characters though harder to connect. a lp sonic boom is great because it’ll let you rush in without fear in the same way an assist can. in a real pinch you can use his air super as an air dash. sonic hurricane can be used to screw over crossover players. he’s not that much on distance but in melee range he shines.
Rating: above average
Ability to land comboes - almost any guile combo out there can cancel into one of his supers although crossfire blitz timing is a little tricky and doesnt do much damage. sonic hurricane can link to damn near any other super in the game though and is a really great guile asset.
Rating: good
Mobility - his dash is decent enough. dash jump after a lp sonic boom usually allows you to get across screen.
Rating: average
Damage Output - though SH hurricane has great potential to link to other supers, on its own the damage is average, as is the super sommersault kick. crossfire blitz has poor damage though
Rating: average-below average
Chip - sonic hurricane does plenty of hits and doesnt leave you too terribly vulnurable after a block. super sommersault kick does though, as does crossfire blitz. aside from that sonic booms dont really do much block damage of course, and if you try a flashkick you’re leaving yourself vulnerable.
Rating: average-below average
Prescence (assist/dhc/counter possibility) - i actually like his flashkick assist quite a bit with certain characters, but it doesnt scare anyone. sonic boom assist is nothing to speak of, actually a little weak. sonic hurricane and super sommersault can counter melee attacks with the right timing.
Rating: average
Other - though i didnt like guile in almost any other game, in this one he’s my best character. the SH is one of the best low tier supers in the game, IMO. and he’s just loads of fun to use, especially with his goofy voice samples.
pretty good guile review :tup:
just a couple of things I wanna add.
-
yeah, the air super can be used as a air dash, especialy if u have a assist backing you up, but be careful though, he cant block once you do the super in the air( unlike omega red’s auto combo super, that one lets you block even after you do it in a SJ), also if you do it and they block it, guile bounces off of them, and they can retaliate since he can’t block.
-
sonic hurricane seems kinda safe… but if they push block it , they end up being far away and can punish with their super.and this is not a correction, just something im adding… the somersault does a pretty good chip when they are in the corner if you wanna finish em off, but like you said, make sure they are not alive cuz u will get punished.
-
i agree Sonic hurricane is one of the best low tier supers, it helps setup so many (powerful) DHCS, like dhc to tron lunch rush, or DHC to final justice, or the most common one, DHC to proton cannon (for some reason, DHCing to PC from SH seems to a lot more damage than DHCing from another super.)
lol, yeah guile’s voice sample and animations are goofy
flexes muscles “I’m impressed.”
Watch Higher-Jin’s Sabretooth video. :karate:
Hope you won’t think I’m trying to be a dick or anything but I need to correct a few things in your post:
Ability to land comboes: keep in mind this is the ability to actuallly land your comboes NOT combo ability. Basically someone like magneto has fast tri jumps and mobility and thus has good ability to land comboes via mix up.
Guile is below average here of course with no real high/low game he is more of a character to try to constantly keep you in block stun,pressure you and also attempt to keep you out of the air IMO.
Chip: Sonic hurricane is suceptible to push block and you’ll be punished frequently by players for trying to chip with it or punish assists and the point with it.
Mobility: A flash kick in super jump mode functions almost as a double jump and recovery is nearly non existant. You also mentioned a desperation air super as a air dash in specific situations.
Average-Above Average
Other: Guile has great air to air normals which help him when fighting sent (namely j. rh against sent’s frying pan) although they aren’t that useful it’s still good to know. His flash kicks help control the air despite the fact that the blades do pitiful damage, at least you can try to knock them out of the air, flash kicks are also usually safe when you call a assist before-hand.
Also I remember dasrik having some decent tips for fighting sent
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24491
but the information is rather old now.
Thanks for contributing knuckles.
<Sabretooth>
Stamina - 106%
Rating: Slightly below average
Defense - When landing from a jump/super jump he has a really good defense against those who try to cross under him which is j. rh which hits at a ridiculously steep angle. His launch (df+hp [5]frames) is decent but nothing above average. He also has good trapping potential and j. hp is decent priority aswell.
Rating: Average - Slightly Above Average
Ability to land comboes - He has the extra action glitch cross up as a suprise tactic and he also has instant overhead j.rh + assist, j. rh on certain characters (team steroids, tronne, thanos). Besides that he has what alot of other characters have available to them: High/Low fakes. He also has moves that give the opponent incentive to roll which leads to a recovery roll mix ups. One of these moves is the weapon x super which in case the opponent doesn’t roll you can still try to reset for damage by doing:
dash, (otg) c. lk, (call assist) standing mp, lp beserker claw
dash, (otg) c. lk, (call assist) standing mp, hp beserker claw
One should cross up and the other shouldn’t, the reason it works is because hp beserker claw takes so long to start up that they land into it thus he never makes it to the other side because it’s actually blocked. I guess the same effect could probably be achieved by a delayed lp beserker claw, test it out though.
On top of that he also has that steep angle roundhouse which hits earlier than most other jump ins, still not that great though.
Rating: Average - Below Average
Mobility - Sabretooth has a decent dash (around IM level), a wall jump and alot of pseudo modes of transportation (wild fang, beserker claw). One thing you might want to know is that sabretooth can control his wall jump:
Press up+foward to do one where he’ll hardly move foward
Press foward to do a wall jump where he’ll move to about 75% of the screen.
Also the wild fang and beserker claw are best used sparcely and usually covered by a assist. Although he has some mobility options, his mobility overall is kind of let down by the fact that other than his wall jump he has no air specials, supers or air mobility.
Rating: Average - Slightly Above Average
Damage Output - Weapon X comboes are pretty good:
c. lk, c. mk, standing hp (1 hit) xxx lp beserker claw xxx weapon x does 76 damage and allows for a mix up afterwards. The combo without the mix up does almost as much as cyclops SOB bnb however you cannot dhc after he does the final strike (the big x) at least not to my knowledge. You can still dhc into storm’s hail for good damage (110) before the “big x”. His other hyper combo (hyper berserker claw) is really hard to land but is dhcable at the end. His air comboes do average damage but seems to have decent air throw priority.
His punch throw opens up interesting damage possibilities aswell:
When they don’t roll:
HP beserker claw (use lp beserker claw on sent) HIT CONFIRM xxx hyper birdie
Dash, lp beserker claw + ground covering assist for a cross up
^ delay above for a fake cross up (just found this now)
When they do roll:
Walk backwards when they are about to get up either stay in the same spot and c.lk or walk foward to cross them up with a c. lk.
You also can’t forget he has a corner infinite that works on the majority of the cast that does major damage in only a few repititions.
Rating: Good
Chip - Hyper birdie set ups do decent chip and are usually safe at full screen distance (except against cable for the most part). You can also try to set up his hyper birdie glitch which allows him to freely move around while birdie is firing. You set it up by:
Calling any strenght birdie, THC (assist 1 + assist 2)
He should recovery nearly immediately after calling her however if you have more than 1 level the other members of your team will do their hyper combo and thus you can only attack after everyone doing a THC with you recovers.
Some set ups:
-
They super jump (possibly trying to run away), call birdie, time it so it hits when they are landing, THC.
-
Kill a character, call HK birdie, THC
The reason you can’t use a assist to set this up 99% of the time is because you can’t do a THC while you have a assist out.
Also if you happen to have 2 characters (one of them died) you don’t have to keep THCing just call hyper birdie again (no thc command) while the other hyper birdie is still on the screen and he’ll recover immediately again. While “roaming around” you can either try to mix up your opponent or chip him down with doom by dashing up next to him and jumping over and calling him. Of course you can use other assists other than doom. The reason I hesitate to give him a better rating is because he has a hard time setting up chip on his own.
Rating: Above Average
Prescence (assist/dhc/counter possibility) - His projectile assist has great trapping potential and there is a possibility of a beserker claw alpha counter to punish certain things if you go with that assist instead. DHCing into his weapon x super does good damage (although tricky at times because of the command) and for chip dhcing into hyper birdie does good chip.
Rating: Above Average
Other - He has good meter building aspects: jump back j. hk x 2, ground punch throw builds 4 fierces of meter. He also has alot of good trapping qualities such as spamming j. hk’s on taller characters (or even on shorter ones to prevent them from jumping, just watch out for aaa’s) projectile assist, hyper birdie glitch and calling birdie on point + specific assists. I should also mention that expansion assist is instant overhead friendly and will help usually even the slowest of characters land in time to land some kind of damage after landing a instant overhead (preferrably one that has alot of hit stun enough for sabretooth to hit off of it of course).
i seen it already it’s nasty
I’ll do the Shuma one. Although I think I’ll get thrown around. But here goes anyway.
<Shuma Gorath>
Stamina - 112%
Rating: Below Average
Defense - We’ll put it this way. Shuma has a sick eyebeam(hp). You can go decent air to air, space control, deterrence just with a well timed and correctly positioned eyebeam. up + hp Eyebeam weaker Sent players when they whiff moves should put them outta the air. Random Mystic Smashes has to ability to catch ppl unaware during tri- jumps. Lastly, d.hk (Crystal Smash) catches ppl like most of the time. Good for Magnetos, Storms and whatnots who try to dash under and cross-up. Apart from these, Shuma has not many ways of getting out of trouble.
(I’m hypothesizing this, as I still never had the chance to test it. Since Shuma has the ability to do an extra move each time she does her kicks, in theory she should be able to escape guard crushes, etc.
Rating: Average
Ability to land comboes - It depends on what you mean by ability to land combos. Chaos Dimension setups are fairly simple(mention more later). But Shuma has no real way of getting in normal combos. You can setup wtih assists, but still it doesn’t do anything substantial. Jump in lk, mk would be the usual norm. Or assuming your jump in attempt is blocked, you could do Shuma’s command throw. (HCB + K). J.Hp doesn’t lead into anything substantial.
Rating: Poor.
Mobility - Shuma’s dash goes under projectiles and some other beams. Shuma has a decent dash/walk speed, and her means of getting from point A-point B when at s.j height would be mystic smash. I wouldn’t call it safe. But most of the time people don’t suspect it.
Rating: Poor.
Damage Output - Eyebeam does fair damage. I use that as my main means of damage most of the time. When you’re dealing with top-tiers, thats prolly the only thing keeping me alive. And random mix-ups with j/s.j d+hk or Mystic Smash. What takes the cake, the shop and the rest of the mall for Shuma would be Chaos Dimension. 3 levels of 1/3-1/2 health damage. jump in, lk, mk, d.lp + doom, d.mp xx lp eyeballs xx Chaos Dimension, walk forward and grab. Instant chip + half health on Magneto. Apart from that, there’s the Shuma corner infinite, launch, jump STRAIGHT up, lk, up + hp, up + hp again on the way down, land before enemy, (jump, lk, up + hp) or (jump, lp, lk, lp, up + hp) repeat brackets. Shuma does more in corner encounters. Using a similar setup as the infinite, launch, jump straight up, lk, up + hp, hp (beam shoots down) on the way down, land, d.lk, d.mk xx eyeballs xx hyper mystic smash special or chaos dimension.
Her basic air combos ending with hk grab could deal anything from very little to alot of damage. I never got to figure this out. I once did, launch, magic series, hk grab, and I mashed. Shuma pulsated like she was on crack and I did like 1/3 on Rogue. I still get that once in a while, but usually it just does the normal damage.
Rating: Depends (If you get them, yes it hurts) Average-Sick Dmg
Chip - The most substantial would be a combo covered by an assist (Doom) into eyeball xx Hyper Mystic Smash or just a mystic smash. The chip is well, still okay.
Rating: Average
Prescence (assist/dhc/counter possibility) - As an assist, Shuma’s eyeball assist(Alpha) is what I would call a combo only assist. Meaning, it comes in during a combo and thats abt it. I’ve seen it beat jump in attempts, but I feel the Mystic Smash(Beta) assist does better but is not combo-able.
Ever since those guys figured out Shuma’s eyeball glitch, Shuma has a better standing in terms of DHC. But I’ll be fair here, getting the eyeballs to stick on the enemy isn’t that easy. But after getting it on, you have things like countering Cable in for unblockable AHVB x 3, or Storm in for unblockable hail, or just simple DHC-ing for a similar effect.
Counter possibilities would be perhaps a well-timed counter eyeball into Hyper Mystic Smash, or a well-timed Mystic smash counter-in to regain space.
Rating: With glitch, Good, otherwise average
Other - Shuma is fun to play with. Put together with a good team that covers Shuma really well, yes she’s a good point player. The only unfortunate thing is you cannot DHC into her Chaos Dimension.
Feel free to add. I’m off to school for abit. I’ll edit when I think of more.
Great post. Also mystic smash assist is really unique cuz it does good chip and instead of pushing them back it pulls them foward, it worked well with venom when I used him, lp venom fang (mystic smash hits) lp venom fang again.
He might have some kind of assist based mix up game with super jump stone drop with a assist that allows him to combo off of that. I don’t know about how you mash it even though it sounds like alot of damage i’d recommend looking at joe zaza’s method of mashing throws (if you’re interested) which should be in the beginning of the thread.
You were pretty modest, shuma is a good character IMO she also has a 1 frame lp and the only 2 frame c. lk in the game, and that is of course the second fastest c. lk in the game next to magneto.
She has that corner infinite aswell even though I can’t do it too well. I can’t play her too well either. Glad you shared hope you post again sometime.
edit: also if it wasn’t clear, shuma’s chaos dimension super is the only throw super than can grap you out of block or hit stun
hahaha no i dont think you’re a dick at all, as i said i play frequently but not as much as a hardcore gamer. im more casual. thanks for the tips though, i need to get down to an arcade as my friends arent that great of competition :karate:
Glad you feel that way btw I think I came up with something (haven’t tried it out though)
Guile/Silver Samurai do a sonic hurricane then dhc into raimeken with samurai after the hurricane pulls them in (i’m guessing it’s a good idea to try to do it before they push block)
It might work, not sure though shrug just a idea
You should do one for Jin. The Saotome Cyclone scales REALLY freaking well…you can air combo to Doom photon super and DHC to it, and it still does good damage. And his expansion assist works a lot like Psylocke’s AAA…it’s actually pretty good.
OK, never was much of a Spiral player, but I’ll give it a shot:
Spiral
-Stamina: ? 110%, I think?
>>Slightly below average
-Defense: Good. She has issues with the Big 4, Strider, Dr. Doom, and not many others. Sort of like Megaman’s defense, in that you can keep people out (though if she did ridiculous Megaman damage, she’d probably be played much more often). The teleport also allows her to cover assists to a large degree, and avoid chip damage. Quick drop allows her to call assists after super jumping, and she is still able to block/attack/do special moves afterward.
>>Very good.
-Attack ability: Hm. Nothing special to speak of. She has some moves with good priority (j.FP, c.FP, c.RK, s.JP etc), and she has a good throw. Hard for her to capitalize on the damge she does, as it’s mostly incidental (a fierce here, some swords there) and chip damage. In terms of actual solid hits, she doesn’t have any special way of landing them, and her jump is floaty, but can punish things with the teleport.
>>Average.
-Damage potential: Pretty good. Throw is good, air combo to command throw is decent (and inescapable?), can “combo” into metamorphasis in air combos (inescapable in corner only?). With an opening, she can combo into standing Fierce and let an assist hit (ie Sent.G) and cancel into the sword super, which can DHC into a bunch of stuff, a common choice being Sent’s HSF. I don’t know if the Speed Up infinite is practical (I’m sure it stops around 25 hits, as most infinites of that sort do), but there’s that, also. Can she combo into the throw super from Cyke AAA?
Regarding chip damage, you’d have to take into account that chipped life cannot be recovered. Also, since Spiral can build meter at a good rate (above average, even when trapping goes badly), C.AHVB or other counter/super is a threat, which ups her damage potential. Assist also is good and does good chip.
>>Very Good.
-Chip damage: Hella.
>>Hella. (Very Good)
-Presence: pretty good. Assist is good, and one of the best battery characters in the game. Expansion (?, standing-Fierce-looking) assist is OK, but useful in few situations. Since someone was talking about assists to use with Strider, try Spiral-A…not quite as free as Doom, but works well. I believe HSF+Spiral projectile assist can’t be guard-canceled out of…? Spiral often has meter, and often has Cable on her team, so counter xx super is something to keep an eye out for.
>>Very Good.
-Other: well, I don’t really play her, so I don’t have much to add here. I was gonna add on a “weaknesses” section to explain what X-character loses to, but I’ll just throw that stuff in here. Problem with Spiral is that two of her worst matches, Sentinel and Storm/Sent, are incredibly common, so she no longer forces characters to counter-team. Also, the old trap (standing Fierce & Sent-G) can be guard canceled out of. She is a fantastic battery, but one of her best teammates is Cable. Similarly, her best assist is generally Sentinel, so she’s sort of locked-in as far as team choices…Spiral/Cable/Sent (aka Team Duc), Spiral/Sent/AAA (aka Team Duc 2, if you’re using Cyclops). She sort of works like Strider/Doom in reverse…whoever you have on your team, has to be able to carry things. Part of the reason Duc has done so well with the former team (not to be confused with the OG Spiral team: Spiral/Cable-B/Cyke), is because he’s had a rather amazing Cable whom, apparently STILL, can land AHVB pretty consistently in almost every match…something a lot harder now than it was in 2001.
Other “other” stuff, btw, would include her safe tag…should have mentioned that earlier. Anyway, IMO, she goes 5-5 vs Cable in his best team for the match (Cable/Sent/CapCom aka Team Scrub), unless he wants to start using crazy assists like Jugg dash or BH-ground or Ruby AAA or whatever…even so. Matches vs Magneto are sort of random. She can’t really trap him anymore, but she can build meter and get out…and, hopefully, whoever she’s getting into the match can take care of things from there. The fact that Mag tends to have a Storm DHC behind him is incredibly bothersome…her biggest weakness is calling swords, and Storm is the best DHC for taking advantage of that.
Vs Sent…good Spiral players say she can do it, but damn. I don’t know. I’d say she loses like 6.5 to 3.5. He has too much range, between assists and the standing/crouching fierces on the ground, and the air normals and the rocket unch, it’s really hard for her to just get swords, never mind the fact that he can crouching Fierce because of super armor and try to trade so she can’t keep them. Even his presensce as an assist fucks things up, because he’ll take up so much space that he’ll soak up swords, getting the point character out of blockstun. And, unlike Spiral, he can turn incidental hits…a connected sj Short here, a jumping Fierce there, into 50% damage, and she has a hard time bridging that gap. The way some Spiral players have said to handle the match is to just block everything, and sloooowly whittle him down with chip damage.
VS Storm…Sent causes problems. Spiral can out-chip her, but her real threat comes from getting hit with some random standing Roundhouse or assist, and from getting her assists killed. Or, Storm’s assist taking the swords, and Spiral getting hit with a triangle jump or something. Storm/Sent in particular is difficult, otherwise I’d say it was fairly even. Storm/Sent/AAA over Spiral 7/3.
Any of these matches get a little better by switching to what used to be known as the dirtiest, most shady team in the game (Spiral/Sent/Blackheart), except for vs Strider and Magneto, where I think you really need your AAA. The team has issues, however…BH isn’t getting much done without an AAA IMO…he’s really just there as an assist.
I would be a fool if I neglected to mention that there are some recent Spiral matches online at http://zachd.com …the last matches in the Team Ducset vs Team Dipset vid are of Duc (Team Duc) vs Potter (Storm/Sent/AAA).
…not that Spiral belongs in this thread anyway, IMO…still top 8 as far as I’m concerned.
Thoughts?
Next up: Ryu.
Ryu
-Stamina: 100%
>>Average.
-Defense: pretty good, actually. Launcher has good priority, standing Roundhouse is less good, but has more range…ie vs Cable standing Roundhouse, Cable will fall through Ryu and kick him in the knee of the leg he’s standing on…god damn Cable. Jab DP is invincible all the way up, and Fierce DP is invincible till about the same height (about same as peak of Psylocke AAA). Not safe, but beats everything and if you Jab DP and call Dr. Doom AAA beforehand, it’s pretty safe if air blocked.
Fireballs are pretty good. Work like a crappy version of Megaman’s FP or Cable’s grenades…you call Doom-B (or G, if that’s your thing) and use them to fill up space, and build a little meter. You can tiger-knee them, of course…
>>Above Average.
-Attack ability: Meh. Pretty normal stuff. Can throw into assists, launcher is good. Shinkuu Hadouken is good…well, it’s useful. You can zap people with it, and it’s quick…particularly the air/TK version…but it does some pretty mediocre damage. Good way to DHC out, however. So I’m counting that as a plus…you can hit people and their assists with it, hit Storm on her way up for hail, etc. Guard breaks ( http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83055 ) are OK, but if they just take the hit they kill the damage from it. Has a fair number of attacks with decent priority, and can crossup with jumping Fierce…jumping Short xx u+Foward crosses up and both moves hit crouchers (minus the tiny characters), and you can combo into super from that. Damage is mainly chip/Shinkuu/random hits, IMO, though you will run into people who will get themselves launched because they tried to come down with an attack, because you’re playing Ryu. Or fall for hopkick -> standing Short into combo to super.
>>Somewhat above average (shinkuu hadouken.)
-Damage potential: OK. Nothing REALLY ugly which is practical, but you’re looking at around ~60%. Standard Shinkuu Hadouken combos into Hail do about 100 points of damage, for example… from launch you can do fireball xx Shinkuu (or SJ FP xx Shinkuu vs bigger characters), in the corner you can launch into hurricane kick or flying screen combo for 33-50% for no meter, and possible throw into assist into reset, or free block damage, etc if you do the flying screen stuff. You can combo into hurricane kick for good damage (up to 40% for no meter) or cancel into Shinkuu in some cases for ~60, not accounting for DHCs.
For more regular stuff, you can do crouching Short, standing Fierce, fireball xx Shinkuu for about 45%. If you’re too far or paranoid about whiffing a Shin Shoryuken, omit the fireball. You can also combo into THC that way, but that’s rarely worth the meter. Or combo to standing Fierce xx Roundhouse hurricane kick xx Shinkuu, does OK damage, and DHCS to HSF, HVB, etc.
Throw into launch or crossup, etc. If your team strcture allows it, if you’re playing a character with an AAA-type assist, you can call them when you launch, sj FP, firebal xx Shinkuu for >100 points of damage…works with Megaman, Cammy, CapCom, Dhalsim, etc…can’t DHC though, because of flying screen.
>>Slightly above average.
-Chip: meh. I don’t really play Ryu without Doom, so I’m biased. On his own, not much to speak of.
>>Mediocre.
-Presence: Fair. AAA is good, counter xx Super is meh. Fireball assist works OK with Sent and Storm and somewhat Dhalsim, but it’s like a crappy version of Spiral-A or Sent-A/G. Tatsumaki assist is only for combo stuff. DHC is good, but again…I’m playing Ryu/Storm/Doom, here. Sent also works, but not at the lower altititues…you have to cancel a hurricane kick, or launch or otherwise juggle, etc.
>>Slightly above average.
-Other: Loses to Cable…hardcore. Does OK vs Mags, but can get meter and DHC his assist or something. Strider and Spiral are terrible matches, Spiral moreso. Loses to Sent/AAA even worse than Cable, can’t do anything but build meter (whiff standing Fierce) vs Storm. You can TK Shinkuu her on the way up for hail, etc, but if she decides she doesn’t wanna play, you need to just build meter and tag. You can SJ and look for a Shinkuu Hadouken vs a SJ FP or Lighting Attack, but that’s actually harder than it sounds. Loses to Blackheart and Omega Red, O.R. probably in his worst 3 matches. Does OK vs Rogue…sort of the same as the Magneto match, but she has fewer options (but is more likely to be toting Tron-G).
Overhead is useful, but has problems vs pushblocking, so you don’t wanna do too much chaining into it. Uuummmm…yeah. Sorta like Marrow, a little bit like Megaman. You want to build meter and then DHC something and get out. Oh yeah, Shinkuu Hadouken beats stuff…like if Sent does a HSF same time as a Shinkuu, he loses. You can actually do Shoryuken xx Shinkuu…be invincible through the first wave, fireball through the second wave. Fireball xx super vs icebeam, Optic Blast/SOB, EMD, etc. Also, Shinkuu Hadouken is immediate after the sreen freeze…at least at close range. Think of it like Lightning Storm. Crouching RK xx fireball is good. If you need someone to back up you can do FP Shoryuken xx Shinkuu Hadouken xx hail.
Etc. I’d put him in the second tier of the characters listed (Guile should indeed be higher than he is, BTW)…below Rogue and Omega Red and Megaman etc, but I think he’s pretty decent. useful.
The tier list…IMO:
Son Son should be higher than Colossus, Morrigan is too high, Gambit should be higher just because he doesn’t get destroyed by Sentinel, which is rare, Jin higher (ha ha), Guile higher…Flash Kick/assist, and Dark Sak’s teleport alone gets her somewhere in tier 1, even if at the bottom. Nice new av, btw.
yea the teleport has 0 frame start up and 0 frame recovery
I just wrote up a shit load of stuff, then the computer froze. :mad:
lost it all…
I’ll add stuff later.