Warning - LONG POST
DEfence - one of her hardest matches is cable - due to the fact he can just jump back gun and call assist to keep distance. Ruby Heart has a hard time forcing him to move/ do stuff so she can respond. If you can get him into the corner it is easier. I think with experience this match up would be less of a nightmare.
She does well against sent - her qcf +K sublimation/waterfall (whatever you wanna call it) hinders sent flying alot - plus you can follow up from it (detailed later). I rate characters who can fight sent highly. Plus when you put him into the corner he’s gonna take some good chip damage
VS Triangle jumps - Hyperschw’ (qcf +2P - the red ball super) has instant start up and (initial) invincibilty frames - she can go through shockwaves :wow:
So if she can pick triangle jumps she can punish them. Add this to her ghost, waterfall, assists and d+HP (the anchor part isn’t part of her body so its got huge priority - poor horizontal range, but it hits a low flying sent) and someone like magneto has to be careful in how he approaches her.
Ability to land hits - she gets alot of her hits by forcing people to move - so a good chipping team helps to make people move - where you can land sublimations and interupt moves with her super.
Also her super allows her to fight air - air better than alot of people ( Must add though that directing her super at sj height is very difficult - maybe its just me…shrug)
Counters - you can counter into Hyperschw’ and punish alot of things. Storms Hk for one, cables AHVB :wow: at a reasonable distance
j Hk crosses up well on mid sized/large characters.
Guardbreak - a good thing to do is j Jab, jHP so if they take the jab just as they appear on screen you can follow up with Hp(otherwise if you do just j jab and then super its hard to aim cos of the height difference between you ).
Chipping / Building meter.
As Ill E said sj Hks are great for getting meter - make sure you use a ghost or a ground assist (eg Rocks/drones) to cover the ground underneath you so you don’t get crossed up as you land.
Unfortunately qcf + K and qcf + P don’t build up much meter at all. :sad:
Damage output
when you land a sublimation you can do qcf + Hp - its fast and actually reaches quite high. So you can do qcf + Hp, aim up and punch cancel into Hyperschw’.
other options are - sj LK, Hk. Knocks the opponent down - Ruby heart is still in the air when the opponent gets up - sometimes you end up behind them so occassional a Hk will cross up ( or you can do sj LK, and try get an airthrow)
or you can do ghost wave xx Hailstorm. Good against sent.
Can punish assists reasonably well - as long as you get block stun on the opposing point character. And she protects her assists well too which is important.
Damage output
You can use her to build meter and do alot of damage with DHCs - a team like Ruby heart /IM/ Sent comes to mind.
But to use her to her potential you need to learn how to link her Hyperschw’ and land resets. Thats probably one con of her game - you have to graduate past the whip, Doom , waterfall game - really good execution is needed.
Hyperschw’ by itself doesn’t do a great deal of damage ( at leat on arcade lvl 2 damage setting) so resets really help.
Of the resets posted in her thread by Ten (really posted alot of gems ) - alot of throw onto assists - learning how use schw’ and Hyperschw’ for cross ups is what you need to lift your game (something I’m working on myself)
(NOte -Alot of this is just re iterating what Ten wrote in her thread - read it)
Basically when you do say Hyperschw’ (f,u,df,uf,df ) lp juggle, mp, hp schw’ (uf), uf + P, pause, Hyperschw’ it hits the opponent from the other side - near seamless cross up.
Reason is schw’ has a short hit stun plus gives you forward momentum so when you input the super motion from the original side it automatically aligns itself to aim at the opponent even though your body has moved past them.
Hope I explained it OK - working on it myself, I still can’t combo more than 42 hits from her super. :sad:
Forgot to add - her barrel super resets damage when it hits an airborne opponent (and they “spin”).
DL those spiral matches at this very moment :pleased:
Adding a few things - defence.
With her problem match - sent. Her 1st sword will go above her when she is in the air - so at sj height it is useful to get block stun and try and bring sent down to the ground - esp or the situations where sent flys back waiting for you to land so he can then move forward and try and pin you/ force you into the corner. Doesn’t change things but its something.
Throws are great - not just her ground throw. Spiral buster (f,d,df + P ) is a good tool against floaty storms, also good against someone like cable to end an aircombo - toss upwards… cos he doesn’t can’t really float/drift in the air he can eat another one. Always toss people forward to let yourself reload swords. If you can set it up, Hk air throw is great in the corner to get free launchers - obviously hard to get someone like storm in the corner but if you snap in an assist its something to keep in mind.
Totally agree with the comments about fighting storm sent teams.
I think she does OK against storm but people always use sent first and the DHC to Hail when in trouble.
Damage output - yeah alot of her damage is incidental. If you do land a rare d+ Lk and you have swords loaded you can do some good damage. d+ Lk, d + MK, Hk, pause 3 swords, dash Lk, mk, Hk - 3 swords,etc… add in drones to get a launcher or combo qcf + 2P.
NOt hard to get the first set of swords after the HK, but its hard to follow up after the second set of swords (btw Banshee if your reading - answer my question in the spiral thread !)
I’d add to it stuff like meter building, Guardbreaks, corner game - alot of low/mid tiers have a good corner game (people like Bonerine, Spiral, Rogue, Dhalsim) - in terms of combos/throws and resets.
Hurting assists, protecting your own, assist dependancy.
Plus things like high priority normals, and things like snapbacks, and landing throws for people like venom, collosus, shuma, charlie, etc…
Big 4 match ups/ tools.
Check it out, if not there may be board-wide changes you end up not liking that you could’ve possibly changed/prevented. I want to get some ideas and feedback.
Stamina - Very good, I think the exact number was already provided [EDIT: 87% according to Higher Jin’s earlier post]. 8/10
Defense - Super armor helps here, big sprite that gets chipped easier than usual doesn’t. Special ‘bigman’ gravity that applies only to him, Jugg, BH and Sent I think (but not Zangief or Colossus) renders some of your opponent’s throw into wall stuff void/rollable, minor plus. Falls out of some infinites a bit easier for the same reason (along with super armor). 6/10
Ability to land comboes - Has to get close, but has some unusual tools that help him do so (see Mobility). 5/10
Mobility - Dash-jumps (with a longer arc, ~ 3/4 screen) and Gamma Charges get him around fairly well, but you need good defense and careful play or else he dies pretty quick. Air HP has properties that can inch him forward slightly or make a truncated stop going backwards, important tool as well. 7/10
Damage Output - Above average, lots of short damaging combos plus “perfect” Gamma Crush and some other tricks. Especially good at hurting assists. Doesn’t necessarily need a super to hurt you, but gets good value when he does land one. Supers are all above average at catching point + assist. 7/10
Chip - Above average, if unconventional. He has to pepper you with a lot of blocked jabs & shorts (all normals do chip damage), but it adds up quick. Gamma Quake works fairly well and doesn’t get pusblocked back even if Hulk himself does, which is especially valuable in the corner. QCF + lp XX Gamma Quake is about 10 or 11 chips on the wall, and the first part must be pushed to negate for example. Plus it hurts if it actually gets in.
Prescence (assist/dhc/counter possibility) - Dash assist (yields Gamma Crush THC) is decent enough; knocks opponent up like he normal jumped away from you for some setups, super-armored, large sprite can take a blow if you need him to. Counter (gamma charge with dash assist) XX Gamma Wave can get him in plus stop attacks, works well mid-HSF. Gamma Crush actually DHCs in nicely off many supers, but scales considerably. Still not too shabby. You can also DHC out from Gamma Wave to another super if you want and it helps get the next character in safe (somewhat).
Other - Hulk has a variety of tools that work well for vertical offense, whether its a super or a well-placed gamma charge. He can still be run away from, but if it’s sloppy you’ll get a chance. Once Hulk sends rocks of any kind on the way, nothing actually stops them so they can force trades and interrupt things. Hulk is very much about trading blows to his favor, just can’t overdo it. He’s deadly in the corner and has some things he can do after an airthrow (most of it rollable). On an advanced level I see a lot of potential for mid-screen guard breaks, but I’m not into it enough now to try to perfect it. His gamma charges are hard to truly master, but once you do you’ll see how all the variations give him different attack angles (especially vs. tri-jumpers) and positioning implications for landing that low short that should yield 50% minimum if you do your part. Hulk can gamma charge under jumping point characters and cut back in for hard-to-block crossup attacks. He can also cancel into supers using the same concept (autoface, pseudo-unblockable; not unique to Hulk, all characters can use this to varying degrees). Finally, “negative edge” can help you do special moves utilizing the super armor much more effectively than you could do the conventional way as far as button press; this is powerful for his command throw and fireball equivalent.
Just ask if you want specific setups or questions answered. I’ll do Jugg later, plus maybe a cut-and-paste of a “stacking super armor” write up I did awhile ago. Hopefully the thread will keep growing with some other offbeat characters.
-Defense: I’d like to say is that I usually like to use sent g with uppercuts but doom is okay too. Air fireballs can be useful to try to get sent to stop flying when used sparringly. You can also use fierce hadoukens to stop hail usually (i’m not sure but I think you can use ground version to stop her but you might need to tiger knee them).
>>Above Average.
-ability to land comboes: He of course has the back kick throw into sent drones that can lead to more damage and other assists + hp throw. His hp throw usually leaves you with a wake up opportunity however it is hard to mix up. His main option besides a low short is landing a overhead+ assist into a combo. He can also do a air to air: sj. lp, hp hadouken xxxx shinkuu hadouken for good damage at any given time. He can also try to use hadoukens in the air and given the right positioning see if they hit then cancel into the shinkuu hadouken for good damage. His j. rh also crosses up. However he does have a slow dash.
-Damage potential: You forgot to mention launch, fireball xxx shinkuu hadouken and if you did I didn’t see it(around 66-70 damage usually). I also remember this cross up from a old thread:
Launch+ call sent g, ^ sj. light attack, hurricane kick (land) the drones hit on wake up and you can then combo into a super (there was also a mix up to this i think).
Mobility - normal jump hp xxx hurricane kick is okay to get close to the opponent when used sparringly (it can still be beaten out) and it builds decent meter. His hurricane kicks in general can help move him foward while his fireballs can help alter his decension.
Average - Above Average
Also can you go more in depth on your strategy and why it loses to cable TS?
You forgot to mention launch, fireball xxx shinkuu hadouken (around 66-70 damage usually).
Could you explain gambit further? He gets to do one air fireball for free and jab cajun slash is alright to cover assists but still he can’t combo into his supers reliably and kinetic card xxx cajun explosion doesn’t do enough chip at all. He has a good assist and everything and you can do some cajun strike mix ups+ assist for a variety of things but I just don’t see it.
As far as son son goes I can see your point but I don’t know why you think she deserves to be higher and morrigan to be lower. Is it cuz morrigan can’t combo into a air super? (i put her up one level already but I still want to hear your reasoning for morrigan)
Guile however I don’t really see it at all. He can’t land a combo most of the time and can’t really chip you, but just pressure you. His assist is good but his point game is severely lacking IMO. Is there something I’m missing?
SJ fireballs aren’t so great vs Sent, because he’s too mobile, and can fly around them. Plus, unilke Megaman’s sj.FP, Ryu hovers when he does one, making him easier to catch. TK fireball will sometimes work vs Storm, but are a bad idea unless you can hit her on the way UP for the Hail Storm. Different projectiles have different properties… Megaman’s FP will trade with hail, Ruby’s ghosts won’t, Spiral’s swords will stop AHVB, Optic Blast won’t, etc. The exception being that they do the super too late, and fly right into it as the screen pauses…but even then, I’ve seen it lose a few times.
Well, given my team and the assists involved, I prefer the punch throw, for obvious reasons. Kick thow is good with Sent- you can actually throw into Sent and then combo, or mixup (walk forward or backward and combo to launch/super/whatever). Punch throw -> Doom-B is an OTG, but it’s hard to roll out of, and hard for most characters to punish safely, since Ryu recovers almost immediately after the throw. Also good for momentum, because rocks stay onsceen, so you can even call Doom after the throw to bait an AAA or Hail Storm etc for you to punish. Throw, Doom, crossup, backdash (leaving Doom by the opponent), or throw fireballs and just fill the screen with more stuff, etc. If you actually throw them INTO Doom, you can combo into a launch -> super.
As for the punch throw without assists, you can do throw->walkup->throw, and it’s actually surprisngly quick. IIRC Morrigan, Megaman and Roll can do the same. Ryu’s u+Roundhouse does less hitstun/blockstun than normal hard attacks, which sets up a pretty quick throw whether hit or blocked. You can throw people pretty quickly after juggles, the best being (from slowest to fastest) a hurricane kick in the corner, a jumping hurricane kick, or a hopkick (connected or air blocked). For the last one ou can flying screen OTG from launch, juggle with whatever and then do standing Strong xx hopkick ->throw->assist. This stuff works for both throws…
I actually did mention it…it’s in the “damage potential” part of the post. The other combo you metion is KaiSing’s, and he was using it as a Shin Shoryuken setup, which is a waste of meter IMO, but I suppose it’ll do in an emergency (any time you can kill a character, I guess it’s worth it to burn the meter, right?). I’m sure you can juggle with a falling SJ jab and tack a Shinkuu Hadouken on there instead, or something. The SSRK combo has very odd timing…
Just 2 things, since you mentioned it: You can call assits during the j.FP/RK xx hurricane, during the first part, obviously. If they air block, you land before they do, so you can cover your assist pretty well. Also, you can float over Storm’s Typhoon/Assist A with a RK hurricane kick with Ryu, IIRC (I think Akuma floats too low, and Ken’s…well), and cancel into a super vs Hail/whatever.
About the fireball, there’s a glitch that let’s you have two ground fireblls on screen at the same time. Outside of that, you can have as many air fireballs on screen as possible, anyway…so you can do a TK fireball, throw another on the way down, throw a ground fireball after calling an assist, another TK fireball, etc.
It’s mostly 2 things: Ryu likes to call assists (and can’t cover them vs Cable), and Cable can do whatever he wants vs Ryu. You really only have a few things you can do in this match…you can cross him up with j.Fp+assist xx hurricane for block damage or whatever, and then try to cover your assist, you can try to get close and look for combo, or you can hope he does something stupid, and hope that you have enough meter to capitalize. For the first, Doom is your best bet, though you really want meter and a good DHC…or you can just bet on the fact that he’s not going to punish your assist with anything if he hasn’t built enough meter first. Risky vs Cable/Cyke, since it beats more assists.
As far as as the second…offensive Cable players can get thmselves into a little trouble, because they can get themselves launched, thrown, eat random SSRK or DP xx Shinkuu xx Hail or crossups, etc. Still risky for Ryu. For the third, I mean tagging vs S.HPx4, regular jump FP xx Viper Beam or grenade, that sort of thing.
The general theme of the match is Ryu wanting to build 2 meters and get someone else in the match. Almost nothing Cable does can be punished, and if Ryu stays in the match he just loses at a very slow rate, since Cable can keep him out all day…and even if he gets in, he has to either take risks or hope what he can do is worth anything and will actually net him damage. Just as projectiles have different priority, supers and beams do too. Shinkuu Hadouken will beat Viper Beams, but that’s worhtless, as AHVB beats it cleanly (like how Optic Blast loses to Hail or Proton Cannon {IM version} beats AHVB). Grenades cannot be punished and block forward movement, ditto j.FP, ditto s.FP if he has an assist in front of him (can’t even tag, then) unless you used a super to psychic DP, ditto Viper Beam, can’t punish his assists, etc. It’s like fighting Megaman with AHVB.
I honestly don’t think Gambit is that good, but he controls space OK, and he’s good for DHCs and the like. Can’t combo into Royal Flush for good damage, but with an assist it’s easy and does good damage. Good priority on j.FP/RK, Cajun Explosion is really just to make people behave, and not do stupid things, like bad assist calls and laggy moves…and you can do it off of either wall, which is good… Trick Card and air Kinetic Card work OK vs Sent, whiffed HSF can be attacked from above with j/sj.FP into Royal Flush combo into optional ugly DHC, etc. It’s really that one match that raises his position, for me…there aren’t many characters in the entire game that have a better match vs Sent than he does (that is, a decent one), IMO (that said, I still couldn’t say he wins the match). The cards have a good (and usually invisible) attack range, which can keep Sent grounded.
Son Son’s AAA is really good, and she’s a good 1 on 1 character…wall jump move thing is good, and her DP has no recovery time once she lands, etc. Also she can combo to the staff super from the AAA to hit people out of air dashes, etc.
Morrigan is OK, but she’s just not better than the characters she was ranked better than. She has some nice mixup, and her supers are good (assuming you can land them), but that’s pretty much it. Morrigan/Tron (of the infamous Team Union City, of course) is OK, since it somewhat makes up for her inability to combo into the supers and gives her blockstun to cover herself/her assist with. That, and her normal moves are pretty average. She’s like a slower Rogue, with somewhat better supers. OK for DHCs, though, and I guess her assists are alright.
Guile’s assist gets him big points with me, since it’s nice to have vs Sentinels who fly too much. Guile has pretty decent preassure, and is pretty good 1 on 1, and has a good set of normals (jumping Roundhouse has crazy priority and crosses up, sort of like Storm’s j.FP, c.FP is really good, etc). He’s solid, does nice damage, just doesn’t have anything really special, other than his assist.
to mix up the ssrk setup, just use a lk hurricane instead of a rk hurricane. lk hurricane lets you land in front of them. but if you don’t feel like burning 3 bars, you can do anything after you land.
Hmmm I’m noticing that ryu has alot of chemistry with storm (dhcs, hp throw into typhoon, overhead + storm a into air combo ect.) and overall I’m considering putting him a tier higher.
I also think that maybe sent a may be good for charlie because whenever there is high damage they are afraid to hit back because they’ll get hit by sent a and thus you can try to throw them more and also sent a works very well with his command overhead (b+rh) as long as you do the overhead immediately after you call sent, then you can dash foward and launch for around 80 damage.
I’m also experimenting and trying to see if you can mix it up by doing something like either:
c. lk, c. mp or just c. lk (less to pushblock) sent+overhead
or c. lk, c. mp or just c. lk into dash c. lk, launch or kick throw but I’m just messing around at this point. Keep in mind charlie gets around 60-66 damage off of a throw since he can combo a launch off of it anywhere in the screen and in the corner it does around 81 with a chance to reset so landing kick throws can help his game alot.
Remember if they are trying to jump out (which happens when you leave holes in your offense and try to go for throws) you can do this to punish that:
Make sure they are still in block stun and then try to hit them low. They’ll be stand blocking and thus succeptable to lows. I know this may seem like common sense but still.
Overall, I’m guessing some of the best support assists for someone who tries to land throws (hayato also has his command throw he can combo off of) would probably sent-A and tronne V since they are such a threat but then again you still have to be fast enough to get up close for it to matter.
edit: Also what do you guys think of the hop kick? (foward + hk) granted it doesn’t go as far as the dash but it seems to go a tad faster even if it does recover a little slow and I think it can be used for fakes into a throw.
edit: I should also mention something else. Some people might have trouble comboing launch ^ hadouken xxx shinkuu hadouken when the opponent is slightly higher up in the air. Reason being is because if you are above the opponent you do more damage because the beam pushes them up and if you are already too high they’ll start to “bounce” and you’ll lose damage (but if you wait till you get high enough and they are launched higher than normal it may not combo). However I should say you can remedy this by doing the hadouken as early as you need to (even below them) and cancel the hadouken into a shinkuu slightly later than usual. Sorry if I sound redundant but I just figured it out a little while ago. But I should also mention that what totally sucks about air shinkuu hadouken comboes of any kind is that the opponent usually gets a free dash under cross up attempt for free when they roll.
I updated the first page with a strategy that can possibly be applied to alot of characters.
UPDATE!
**
Strategy for certain fireball characters and their assists**
Viscant talked about this a long while ago so I should talk about this with you guys. He used the examples of bison and marrow. He talked about for example how bison would do his hcb+hp fireball and if they attacked him he could pushblock them into the exploding ball. He also recently said that he would use marrow’s bonerang assist with sent and push block jump-in/square jump/air attacks into it and get a free combo off of it.
Obviously this can be applied to more than just marrow and bison. He also mentioned charlie does something similar with his sonic boom but it applies to most characters with a slow fireball and it might be possible to be able to combo something off of it when combined with a assist. Basically this strategy should be experimented with if you are playing a character that has a fast recovering fireball or one that stays on the screen after he recovers. It’s probably not even limited to that and it can be probably applied in other ways aswell.
Other great ways to use it probably involve stuff like amingo’s projectiles that are unblockable. With Jill you can probably call a LK zombie and pushblock into it thus giving you a free combo. Also another thing that comes to mind is perhaps pushblocking into Ruby Heart’s sublimination since she recovers well and possibly her ghost if they avoid it. There are alot of possibilities with this strategy which I haven’t really seen documented. I just wanted to let you guys know.
You could probably write a small novel on the differences between the 3 shotos. I’ve always liked Ryu best, but they all have their styles. Can’t judge them too hastily.
And tons of things can be used to the entire roster’s advantage, but people don’t tend to talk engine re: Marvel. Only characters, teams, and duos or point/assist. It’s a shame… and it doesn’t give every character their due.
There are alot of things that go unnoticed in marvel especially with low tiers. He was saying there are alot of differences between just the shotos alone. So many he said someone could even write a small book about it.
Personally I think ken is pretty hampered when it comes to dash speed. He’s a pixie yet he has no fast way to get in your face so he can apply his command crossup pressure (there is a way to use it effectively I think). Akuma has a good dash but he doesn’t have the crossup AND he also takes a ridiculous ammount of damage. He has great aspects about him but overall he’s not good enough I think.
I used to think ken was the best all around shoto but I’m starting to change my mind. Sakura is definantly a contender though. Also I think her HP throw is alot like ryu’s except they can’t roll at all. I think you can even do a cross up by doing a HK hurricane + assist right after you do the throw.
I have to wonder who’s the better one out of sakura and ryu.
Sakura has:
Pros:
Great Launchers (c. hp has a little extra range but s. mk has even more range than that)
Has the HK glitch and combined with the extra range on her launchers put this aspect about her above the other two shotos with the glitch.
Great BnB’s on the ground, c/s. lk, hk, lp shoken xxx shinkuu hadouken does decent damage.
Overhead, and has a steep angle rh that’s suprisingly meaty.
She has most of what the other shotos have except a invincible DP
Dark Sakura is pretty powerful, standing RH is long and bufferable and I think you can do standing rh xxx hp hadouken xxx shinkuu hadouken from max range (or near max range) for good damage when mashed. It’s also relatively safe and does decent chip.
Dark Sakura has 0 frame recovery and start up teleports
One of the best dashes out of the shotos. A pretty decent dash overall. It’s great because she is a “rushdown” character for the most part.
Interesting mix ups/resets possible from HK combo. (I was messing with something like launch, lk, mp, mk, lk hurricane (2 hits) then lp afterwards which pops them up and try to cross them up on the way down (it’s kind of unreliable though)
has HP throw. It can be used for wake up games like ryu but has a hard time comboing assists into it. However specific assists combo into rh throw but I’m not sure if you can combo off of it.
As far as wake up games go it’s better than ryu’s because it not only does more damage but I think it’s unrollable. I was doing RH hurricane + cyclops b on wake up for a cross up I’m not sure if that works too well though.
Huge fireballs (although they dissipate fast) and interesting assists. Dark sakura’s air fireballs are bigger than nearly everyone elses and usually don’t dissipate until they reach the ground.
Takes 100% damage, while ken takes 106% and akuma takes around 137%. Overall I think most of the things mentioned puts her head and shoulders against most of these other characters except for the fact that ken has invincibility going for him.
Air DP can be a desperation air dash. You can’t block afterwards though.
Cons:
No air super
Dark sakura costs 3 levels
No reliable mix up game unless you can try to do something with assist + rh hurricane for a cross up or something else.
No invincible DP, something that all other shotos have in one form or another.
No real zoning/fireball game except in dark sakura mode. Even then ground hadoukens are probably a bad idea due to their horrible lag.
Ryu
100% stamina
Decent fireball zoning game (should have the fireballs with the biggest hit box in the entire game)
Has decent air to air confrontation combo in: sj.lp, hp hadouken xxx shinkuu hadouken and HP fireball xxx shinkuu hadouken from a certain distance away.
Has decent BNB on the ground with c. lk, standing hp, hp hadouken xxx shinkuu hadouken (mash)
Good arsenal of throws. One presents wake up opportunities (although rollable). Both have chemistry with certain assists.
Should have the fastest command overhead in the game at 18 frames upclose.
J. HP should be the highest priority/biggest hit box out of all the shotos.
Launch into hadouken xxx shinkuu hadouken does good damage.
Good AAA
Decent DHCS
Hop kick for advancing/throw set ups at times.
Does not have to completely rely on getting in close in which case all of the shotos are somewhat ill equipped in one form or another.
Shinkuu hadouken/Hadoukens to cover assists against most characters. Shinkuu hadouken is somewhat safe on most characters not named cable.
Can have multiple air fireballs on the screen at one time and when covered by the proper assists might give sent a hard time flying around.
Tiger kneed shinkuu hadouken is like a very inferior AHVB in alot of ways.
Cons:
Slow dash
fireballs have decent recovery but could be ALOT better.
Any combo involving shinkuu hadouken usually gives anyone who rolls a free dash under cross up attempt.
Overhead recovers somewhat slowly and kind of requires specific timing to be used correctly in conjunction with assists.
No hurricane glitch
Still has puny range on his launch
needs at least one meter to do good damage most of the time.
It’s hard to get good damage while dhcing out of shinkuu hadouken since you can’t dhc out during most of the end.
Sorry if I’m missing anything. I think from this alone it looks like sakura is better but I still wouldn’t jump to conclusions.
Actually, if you think Shinkuu Haoduken is kinda nerfed, you’ll be surprised what it can do. TK Shinkuu over a typhoon xx hailstorm, TK Shinkuu to beat HSF, etc. Of course there’s a big disgusting lag time after stuff like that.
Jin, I notice that Megaman is not listed on either one of your tier listing, now I consider him top tier myself, but is there a reason why he’s not in your rankings?
I messed up I don’t think I put him in the list to begin with LOL. He’s really good I put him in Tier 1 but in the middle ranking. He would probably be better if he didn’t have such a laggy jump arc and could practically combo into his supers without assists. I do know he works well with sent-g to stop rushdown with his rockball assist.
A few quick megaman notes for anyone who wants to learn him:
neutral j.fp before late as possible can be followed up like a sonic boom (wave dash into combo ect.)
He has three 1 frame normals (his light attacks) and a 3 frame c.lk (sorry he’s no magneto but he can at least trade with him)
Traps rush down rather well with rock ball + sent g
Instant overhead roundhouse + assist on cable is kind of risky but still not that bad a option.
If you land a air throw at around a specific height you can go into his normal jump infinite (j. lp, j. mp, j. hp (hard)
You can combo off his air throw anywhere on the screen, I usually do j. lk, uppercut to follow it up and I sometimes have even cancelled the uppercut into beat plane for more chip although it may be risky.
ground punch throw is rollable but allows for some wake up games
Rush drill is of course invincible after he transforms
Interesting DHCS and assists
j. fp does 20 damage
I’m sure ranma has some good tips if he’s willing to share
