good stuff you posted about thanos :tup: Yeah, that bubble assist can help out anybody… it lets you do flying screen combos (then they get captured) then another one with almost every character in the game(but, like you mentioned, the damage scales)… man, i’ve been working on some tight combos with that assist for a combo video…
one thing you can also do with tron/thanos is get free chip damage with the drill (like how you can free damage with tron/doom). the bubble covers up the lag from the blocked drill. depends on where on the screen you are at though. if you do a RH drill ,when they are in the corner, the bubble wont cover up the lag… but mid screen ( or if youre closer to your side of the screen) you can do it and its safe… you can even do jab,jab+thanos assist, XXshort drill, and theyll land into the bubble after the last hit of the drill then u can do jab,jabXXlunch rush. also,this is kinda funny… you can “bait” them into trying to attack you after they block the drill. you can call thanos+ RH drill, and the bubble will be behind you, if they try to do a combo into their super the bubble will catch em and you can do that jab,jabXX lunch drill combo (DHC to thanos orange ball super :karate: for even more damage).
so its like this… they have a choice to either take the big chip damage and just block… or they have a choice to try to punish the blocked drill with their combo… but their combo will get interrupted and theyll get caught by the bubble. :karate:
Yeah. I was messing around with that and seems really good until you take pushblocking into consideration. They can pushblock the last part of the drill and be out before the bubble hits. If they have airdash, they can go punish Thanos before you have a chance to do anything. Characters w/ super armor can just guard cancel, take the bubble and punish Tronne. :sad:
yea i knew about how this wont work on sentinel cuz the bubble never captures him unless hes hit out of his super armor first. Pretty much my whole post… dont try that stuff against the top tier… I thought those strategies are pretty good against the low-mid tiers characters (aka the characters that dont have a 1 frame start up super (AHVB), quick air dash/tri jumps (storm and mag) and super armor (Sent,… actually im wrong about that… juggs and hulk have it too)
I think this is a pretty good idea, I’d have to agree if you know something about a character or want to debate a character standing say so that way we can all learn more about that character and who has the most potential. Also if you have your own tier list please post up.
Well I’m not so sure about cammy she has no real mix up game whatsoever, how do you even go high? Can you please elighten me?
Strider is pretty cool he has good comboes (air combo resets into qcf+lp do almost a whole other air combo worth of damage) and he also has the teleport as cross up+ pressure but I still don’t know if he’s above omega red, rogue and the like without doom.
I might try to find some of the better threads in the specific strategy sections but one thing I found is that a few of them are lacking and even the information that is already known about low tiers isn’t neccesarily noted. (e.g sabretooth thread was barren and doesn’t even say anything about how to do the infinite hyper birdie supers, preppy was the one that let me know just recently)
These are some of the better threads although I think you should always try to find better and better tactics:
Sakura
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=42666
Dhalsim
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72460
Wolverine/Bonerine
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2253372#post2253372
if anyone knows anymore suggest them I was going to post a few more but I want to check them first.
Some of my threads:
Ken
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70732&page=1&pp=15
Bison
http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2467377#post2467377
I’ll update more later, I’m glad this thread is revived and I will also revise the tier list.
She needs an assist to lock them down so she can go for double jump crossups. She can also pressure her opponent into making a mistake with her command throw. Sure it’s easy to just sit there and block her stuff w/o assist. But it gets a little tricky to block when an assist is hitting and Cammy does a blocked string, jumps to the other side, jumps back to the first side, then does a diagonal kick back to the other side. And we all know how damaging her B&B combo and how awesome her assist is. And her aerial resets are pretty cool too. launch, magic, jump to the other side, HK cannon drillxxKBA. Plus her ground dash is second to Magneto’s.
I’ll post some reasons why Strider is da shiz later. I’m sleepy.
Interesting.
Here is some neat stuff I’ve found with morrigan:
Her dive kick (down+hk) first off it can be used as a quick meter builder since you can hold down and press kick almost immediately as she leaves the ground. Also it might be able to be used for “tri jump” purposes despite her already having having a air dash, it’s just interesting because you cancel the dive kick into qcb+k then do a c. lk as soon as you hit the floor. Maybe you can do a normal jump> air dash > dive kick on the other side xxx qcb+k cancel, land immediately press c. lk into whatever
Also if there would be a good way for her to connect her close standing fierce xxx fireball xxx soul eraser combo she’d have alot of damage potential.
I also remember justin wong doing a mid screen infinite on doom with morrigan involving her qcb+ k move
I think that was the one that goes:
[oc.FP, superjump, sj.LK, sj.D+HK, qcb+K, land, walk forward, s.LP] repeat brackets
It works on Doom, Tron, Collosus, Storm, Venom, Bison, Silver Samurai, Anarkis, Zangief, Sabretooth, Ruby, and Amingo (and works for 1 rep on the Hulk, Sentinal and Juggernaut).
It’s pretty easy with a good ground assist like Tron or Sent, but you’re right, it’s difficult to get that thing going solo.
As it is, (adf j.LP+Tron, j.HK, s.FP xx Soul Fist xx Soul Eraser) is easy HUGE damage if you can land a hit on a grounded character. Definitely 100% if you have a good DHC lined up afterwards.
I’m using Hulk, random second character, SonSon but there’s a lot of things about it that I could use help with. The random character is usually a switchoff between Colossus and Felicia.
The only real trick I have with Hulk/Sonson is v+lk, lk, call SonSon AAA, wait a sec then Gamma Crush. It does nice damage but it’s starting to get predictable and most of the other ways I have of linking a hit into SonSon’s AAA cause the Gamma Crush to miss unless they’re in a corner. When I’m not gearing for this I’m running around superjumping and building up meter for it. Sometimes I can just walk up and throw a blocking person but that happens less and less often.
Felicia does nothing with SonSon or Hulk and I only use her if I think I won’t have to put her on point. My Colossus usually involves repeatedly turning metal and flailing around at close range until it ends, when I call an assist and reactivate it.
I dunno, my entire concept is to hit them with a few really strong blows and it works a good amount of the time, but I think it could be better.
Also, I think Zangief’s ground assist while metal is one of the most aggravating things when he doesn’t have to worry about Hailstorms or AHVBs.
He’s fun low tier.
Strider is still up there with or without doom. sure, he’s not as good without, but give him any assist that can pack a decent punch (aa’s, sent rocket punch), and he’s still a beast. I’ve taken out entire teams with just strider/aa or sent-a by hiding behind animals and and the assist. With Sent-A, i’ve also done stuff like do a blocked ground chain into rocket punch into a cat which keeps them in total blockstun. From there, you can either teleport in or dash in or activate orbs. Strider without doom is still up there with the likes of Doom, BH, and Cyke (simply because he can still take out all 3 of those guys w/o doom)
Here’s a pretty simple yet sweet combo with Ryu/Cable AA.
jump in FP, s lk, s hp+call cable AA, Hurricane kick (2 hits)xx Shinku hado when they are lined up in range of the beam. I’ve gotten like 75% with this combo and it’s also easier to tag them in the center of the beam where you can get more damage. Just mash like hell.
**Tier 1 **
–Top–
Omega Red
Rogue
Dhalsim
Juggernaut (with glitch)
War Machine
–Middle–
Anakaris
Morrigan
Venom
Strider (NO DOOM!)
Silver Samurai
–Low–
Colossus
Hulk
Son Son
Ice Man
Ruby Heart
Cammy
Tier 2
–Top–
Sabretooth
Marrow
BB Hood
Bison
–Middle–
Charlie
Wolverines
Spiderman
Jill
Hayato
Chun Li
Shuma
Amingo
–Low–
Captain America
Sakura
Guile (he could be bumped to middle even just for his good match against sentinel)
Akuma
Ken
Ryu
Thanos
Gambit
Tier 3
–Top–
Zangief
Servbot
Jin
–Low–
Dan
Roll
how does this look?
I still have issues with strider’s stamina and I’m not completely convinced about his standings that’s why I didn’t put him any higher. I may look into cammy and her double jump cross ups aswell.
Where do you think Juggernaut without a glitch should go?
Leave Strider where he is is what I say. Cammy belongs to the top of Tier 1. She is fast enough and her grabs into combos can take a toll on any character. Juggernaut should be placed in the middle of Tier 1 if he did not have his Glitch active.
EDIT: I also disagree with some of the characters that you placed in certain tiers but I dont want to talk about it.
Some hulk info:
-
Gamma Charge into gamma quake is free chip (usually) and if it hits it does pretty good damage
-
c. lk, c. mk, short gamma charge (wait until you are close to not being able to cancel out of it) xxxx gamma crush is unmashable
-
You can slow your descent a tiny bit with jumping HP
-
You can try to use him with a assist to try to cover up the recovery of his gamma charges
-
You can set up a double gamma crush in a variety of ways: The old myke z set up: Magneto on point, hulk in second > Launch, magic series xxx temptest dhc into gamma crush hold foward.
I didn’t see him post that but that’s how I do a double gamma crush with that but I figured that out after seeing him do it so it might be different. Of course you can set that up with assists with hulk on point.
Um I still don’t know about cammy she still can’t go high on you so she has a hard time landing hits on point IMO However hoovman said something about a double/triple cross up which might be a way for her get in some damage but I don’t remember him saying a specific set up. So hoov if you can tell me the specific set up for the double jump cross up that would be pretty cool.
I still don’t think juggernaut without a glitch is all that good, he’s a pretty big target on top of that aswell. I was thinking more in tier 2 but what does everyone else think?
Yea I agree with you about the Jugg thing in a way but as long as he has a level he is dangerous. When he has a level(s) I would still put him in Tier 1 but without levels I say Tier 2. Dont forget Magic Buttons 
can punish a lot.
he still has trouble and little mobility/no mobility. He punishes launches very well and yea the magic buttons (thc) are really handy but still besides that he has no real way to land a head crush besides a corner throw/blow through/punishing a launch/random head crush. After they learn all the things you can punish they’ll stop doing it, at least with glitched juggernaut all you need is one mistake but with regular juggs he just doesn’t have that luxury even though he still does alot of damage.
Juggernaut is one of those characters that add alot to a team just by having a particular role - even if they have some limitations on point.
Eg combo DHC to Headcrush for a kill, Guard break next character.
Counter blocked attack into headcrush - eg storms launcher.
Glitched dash assist, etc…
Other people in this category would probably be Hulk (for his gamma crush), Bonerine with sent, Rogue’s kiss assist (yes shes real good on point b4 anyone points that out),silver samurai, BH to a degree - get meter,Stilt DHC when assist hits, Ironman - DHC to Proton Cannon for kill - then Guard break.
Discussing tiers can get too bogged down in theory - you need to be able to say exactly why someone is good and alot of people judge other qualities better than others.
Eg is …X (insert character)as good as Rogue cos that character can hinder sentinels flying?
I liked Stiltman post in a long ago thread - he rated characters in terms of mobilty, damage output , chipping, prescence, and something else.
Not how I would rate people but quite better than just someone long list (apologies to the easily offended)
I’ll try to give it a shot but you have to realize there are alot of characters. I expect you guys to help me make the list better and more accurate ^_-.
I’ll try to put it the same way stilt man did something like:
Stamina -
Defense -
Ability to land comboes -
Mobility -
Damage Output -
Chip -
Prescence (assist/dhc/counter possibility) -
Other -
The “Other” category will be stuff that doesn’t go into other categories like for example: Marrow can push block into her bone rangs as can bison with his hp orb, gambit can try to protect assists with his dp+lp cajun slash, and other interesting stuff.
I’ll try to do a few every chance I get so first let me try it with juggernaut:
<Juggernaut>
Stamina - Takes 87% damage.
Rating: Excellent
Defense - He has standing Hp against square jumpers and against people trying to attack him on the way down from a super jump. Also, as a bonus if it hits you can cancel into the power up and have a chance to glitch him out. He also has super armor. His normals are pretty high priority but he has no real way from stopping people from rushing him down outside of a random head crush or AAA. On top of this he is a huge character and is very easy to cross up. The main thing keeping me from giving him a below average score is that is that he always has the threat of landing really high damage. The one last thing I should mention is how his j. hp can be used to try to keep people away however it is pretty risky against certain characters.
Rating: Average
Ability to land comboes - No real high low game but juggernaut has a way of busting through sometimes. He has the throw into head crush or launch. All it takes is one mistake and it usually leads to a dead character. Also when glitched any stray j. hp will always trade in his favor. He also has a very hard to use cross up j. rh.
Rating: Below Average, although this is deterred by the fact that he only needs to land one combo.
Mobility - He has belly flop + a assist to cover his recovery and that’s about it, it’s also a very risky move to do on it’s own. Slow dash, slow walking speed aswell.
Rating: Poor
Damage Output - When glitched 100% comboes are ridiculously easy. Corner throws are also very deadly. Even when not glitched his super is one of the most damaging in the game. In the corner he has a option to not even use any meter and do:(corner) hp throw, launch (specific timing), j. lp, j. mp, j. mk, j. hp, j. hk (land) c. lk, s. hp (wait) throw them while they are coming down then maybe belly flop + assist to chip away the remainder of their life for 100%. Even without the throw at the end it does 121 damage while glitched.
Rating: Unstoppable
Chip - He has very few real chipping options and since he can’t build meter it’s a bad idea to do something like a Juggernaut/Sent THC for chip. However he can do a head crush for chip death if neccesary.
Rating: Poor - Poorest
Prescence (assist/dhc/counter possibility) - When glitched his assist is scary and a dhc into head crush almost always means death. Obscene damage, he also has the belly flop assist for unblockable set ups and help vary mix up games.
Rating: Excellent
Other - He can’t cover assists very well at all his main option is super jumping over the opponent. The invincibility on his head crush is great but it needs specific situations for it to be relevant. Also he has no meter building skills.
<Silver Samurai>
Stamina - Takes 93% damage. Can also use Ice super to take only 43% damage and gain super armor.
Rating: Very Good
Defense - He has no DP of course (not that they are any good in this game). He has his launch and a raimeken as a deterrent however. Also he can combo off almost any assist into a raimeken. He has a good j. hp however you won’t recover until you land unless you cancel it into a shuriken which severely hurts this option.
Rating: Above Average
Ability to land comboes - He has no high low game by himself however with a assist he can at least attempt to land a instant overhead RH (land) into raimeken depending on the assist and how much hit stun that assist has. He also has a cross up j. RH which is a little easier to do than most cross ups although still not that reliable. His dash also travels a good distance allowing him to try to use some of this although the dash itself is pretty slow. He also has the defensive option of doing a raimeken or launch > raimeken.
Rating: Average - Above Average
Mobility - He has a dash that goes a really far distance but is somewhat slow and outside of that he has very few other real mobility options if he wants to get close. However most samurai players will want to chip away instead of rushing down.
Rating: Average - Above Average
Damage Output - He always gets really good damage off a raimeken and when mashed correctly does really obscene damage. Aircombo into shuriken also does very good damage. The problem is he will not always have meter and outside of a raimeken he will only do slightly above average damage compared to a normal air combo. He also can’t do alot of damage at all in a air to air confrontation.
Rating: Very Good
Chip - One of the best chipping supers and projectiles in the game. Even raimeken does good chip damage when mashed.
Rating: Excellent
Prescence (assist/dhc/counter possibility) - DHC into raimeken is downright deadly. Someone also mentioned the possibility of choosing launcher assist and alpha counter xxx raimeken. His assists are pretty good aswell.
Rating: Excellent
Other - He has below average meter building skills. However he can cover assists very well with a shuriken or with a raimeken. His instant overhead j. roundhouse is also something that not alot of low tiers have. Lastly he cannot be thrown when crouching which is really nice.
I want to ask you guys to give it a shot and if you guys disagree with some of my ratings let me know and we can discuss it here and maybe learn some new stuff. You can even make a character rating of a character I already made so we can see your points.
Also there are few characters I don’t know that much about so if you guys would like to give a shot at them that would be really cool I’ll also try to talk to some people who are really good with certain characters to see if they can give some advice or make some character ratings themselves.
Character’s I’d appreciate someone taking a shot at:
- Spiral
- Felicia
- Shuma Gorath
- Amingo
- BB Hood (I already know “BB Hood” the user can probably bring up better points than I can)
- Ruby Heart (I know enough about her but I know there are a few experts out there)
But if you feel you are really good with any character I hope you’ll make a overview.
Here is a blank ratings chart if you want to use my method:
<Name>
Stamina -
Rating:
Defense -
Rating:
Ability to land comboes -
Rating:
Mobility -
Rating:
Damage Output -
Rating:
Chip -
Rating:
Prescence (assist/dhc/counter possibility) -
Rating:
Other -
thanks later
- HJ
Venom
Stamina - Takes your average 100%
Rating - Average
Defense - Standing fierce in lp Venom Fang is good against offensive ground characters and random jump ins. HK in the air has really good priority, and will take Sent out of the air. He can do two low kicks in normal jump mode because of the glitch, and that usually catches random people off gaurd. He’s short too, so you can crouch under bullets and dash under him.
Rating - I’d say a little worse then Cable’s defense, but better in some cases.
Ability to land comboes - Yes, he can tri jump. Air dash, then cancel it in any normal move before he swings all the way. It makes him come down faster. Do this alternating between HP, HK and lk with random low kicks on the ground with Doom rocks. It’s confusing, and let’s you get his B&B off.
Rating - Slightly below average
Mobility - This is where it gets better. He’s got a decent dash that goes right under alot of moves. He can Venom Fang around the screen. He can air dash, and if you cancel the air dash with a move, he ghetto tri jumps. If Doom is behind you it’s a sight to be seen.
Rating - Slightly above average. He’s no Magnus, but he’s better then Cable at getting around.
Damage Output - Mid screen is basically just working to get them into a corner. Low kicks into Death Bite are good. His fierce has high priority, and he has the best snapback in the game. Couple that with a well timed gaurdbreak and he can do some damage. Now in the corner he can do soe major damage. Throw resets, air combos, chip and more throw reset.
Rating - Average to above average depending on if you are in the corner or not.
Chip - Venom’s strongest asset. Venom/Doom is like a much slowler Strider/Doom with gaps. Doom, Venom Fang, tri jump, Venom Fang, Doom, Venom Fang. This shit is scary.
Rating - Venomous
Presense - People will just treat him as another low tier until you chip their soul away. Get them in the corner and they’ll never know what hit them. DHC into Venom Web is one frame. Venom Fang assist has good priority.
Rating - Average lower tier presence until you catch them off gaurd.
Other - Did I mention his gaurd break? Fierce Web Throw cancelled into Venom Web. Did I mention his three assist infinites? He’s got the basic repeated launch in the corner, lp hk while the assist is in the air anywhere onscreen and for a little flash, in the corner, launch, SJ, lp, lp Venom Fang repeat. Yeah, he’s a tricky bastard. Just watch out for the most random glitches when you do a Venom Web.
Hmm… well ability to land comboes is his… ability to actually land a combo.
Like how magneto uses his tri jumps to get in comboes and how effective that is.
I’m curious about this “assist infinite” can you explain that better? I’ll try out your guard break I’m really interested on some of the stuff you’re talking about. One of the thigns I don’t like about venom is how I think if they are crouching there is a hole between c. lp, c. mp and a lp venom fang…is there a hole there?
Venom is pretty good but also I think he has a very “fat” hit box which means he gets hit by cross ups easier doesn’t he?
Venom is definantly a beast tho.
Edit: I wasn’t aware he had the “extra action” glitch on his kicks like sabretooth and shuma did too, that means he can build meter aswell by doing rh x 2 in a normal jump. The 2nd rh won’t come out but it still gives you the meter. He gets a extra action after any kick including middle.
Yeah, he’s got the glitch. It’s harder because the move takes forever to end. Assist infinite is the shit man. Doom hit them, assist is toast. What’s great about Venom is that he can keep an assist in the air with jumping roundhouse and Venom Fang.
Assist infinite is basically when you get the assist in the air, in normal jump mode you do a low punch, then high kick. It pops them back up for more. Practice it off of Doom’s rocks for the easiest set up.
I’ll fix the combo section.