on block HHS is +6 so HHS > HHS can be interrupted any of Giefs nasty options (lariat, ex Hand, spd, Ultra/Super)
aahhh, I see. Thanks.
hey telepathic, do you have any tricks for the timing of hhs into hhs?
it’s one of the only hhs combos i can’t do consistently. on gief i can sometimes get 2 of them but i almost always screw up the 3rd one.
on paper I know you have to wait until after the fourth hit to start you piano, slide, or mash but in actual game play I end up going by timing and feel. I never actually count the hits. After half way thru the first HHS I just mash hp. I can piano or slide any hands cancel but not HHS > HHS. I can only mash it. The timing is still tight and I’m not going to lie, I drop this combo about 30% of the time if I’m not on my A game.
hmm guess it’s just one of the things that require practice.
actually my theory is that it doesn’t matter when you start the inputs as long as it’s after the 4th. what does matter is that you hit the 2 frame link on the very last input of hhs.
this is probably why mashing works better than any other type because there is more that one hp being pressed at the end.
i do it with lp, mp, hp, hp, hp myself.
i think lp, mp, hp, hp ~ mk (plink) would work well here as well.
I do pretty much the same here. I’ve lost a few games missing that link. Still trying to get it down 100% but not sure how save smashing HP faster near hte end.
Ending with hp ~ mk/lk is definitely the way to go with this. I personally gave up on HHS, HHS after about 15 minutes in training mode, but clearly it is very good and has its uses.
Yo congrats on fucking people up and taking that 1!
Some Gen Mach-up info based on my experiences, one noticable downfall:
His Gekiro (Air Kick that juggles) can beat out your buttslam pretty much 100% if you both do it at the same time or he can react to it. Honda needs to capitalize on Gen’s knockdown, like all characters that he can do so with. Meaty-LK buttslams, cr. jab games which leads to more buttslams or oicho throws. meaty s.rh on wake-up for downback block checking. Honda fundamentals really.
there’s a few more but i gotta test em out with my buddy first.
a quick tip against Boxer is that far standing FK beats all his normals/specials when boxer is on wake up.
Quick Update!
ex headbutt? (most boxers main go to move?)
ex any dash punch?
wake up ultra and super?
turn punch will will force you to block but should leave you at advantage.
standing round house would only be useful if they have no meter in which case they probably aren’t going to do any reversals other than back dash. in any case you are much better off with something like meaty cr.mk xx hands which beats all of his non meter options.
A few tidbits that I have picked up:
Abel - if you block the first hit of the rekka-into-change of direction, use buttslam to hit him as he’s trying to do the 2nd attack.
Chun Li - if timed correctly, standing HP can be used as an anti-air which either beats or trades (in your favor) with most of her air moves.
Dhalsim - standing HP can be used to hit his Jumping HP from distance; a well-timed FA wil beat his air-teleport-behind-you-for-combo shenanigans; although not a great strategy against all Dhalsims, if the opponent seems to be fond of throwing out random standing stretchy HPs to catch you as you walk forward or jump, using a random ex HB or 2 may catch those limbs.
El Fuerte - using buttslam is often a good way to avoid his body splashes after getting knocked down. Ultra can be used to counter the jumping-off-the-wall kick. However, it will likely only work once, as the opponent will drop short the 2nd time (and punish your ultra).
Fei Long - late LP HB works great as an AA. When knocking him down, get just outside of throw range and hold down and back to bait the dragon kick, then punish.
Guile - bulldog him into the corner and then keep him there. I try to avoid doing jumping MK cross-ups once he is in the corner so that he has no potential for easy escape.
Ken - if the opponent does the lunging MK to crouching MK, block the first move and butt splash the 2nd.
Ken/Ryu - If the opponent is spamming fireballs, FADC into Ultra works well; against Ken, possibly even from full screen; against Ryu, you have to be closer (possibly half screen at most). Try to be patient and not waste your meter doing an ex HB when they use the jumping tatsu from the corner. Instead, be patient and punish when they land on the other side of you. When knocking them down, use FADC (backwards) to bait SRK, then punish. If they don’t bite, next time you can try mix up by letting the FA fly.
All kicks from Oga (or Off-the-wall kick) have armor breaking properties including the ceiling version so no FA.
The move is disadvantaged as fuck so feel free to HHS combo or Oichio after block.
I’m a Gen player myself but I have to admit I’m not sure how the block directions are determined (I almost never use it). I think Gen always crosses the opponent up on the roof though so if he goes to the left wall, you have to block left as he comes down from the ceiling and vice versa for going to the right wall. You might want to verify this before trying it in a match though…
Zangeif: I agree with Deci’s post on the 1st page. Good Geif’s know how to get around you abusing nj.fp all day. They bait it and either s.rh or ex greenhand you to punish it. Plus he has other normals like cr.mp that will beat it as well.
Luckily the normals own him, your s.fp stuffs lariat and s.rh stuffs ex and normal greenhand. If they are trying to greenhand you on recovery from your nj.fp, use a neutral empty jump and then s.rh his greenhand when you land. You can counter anything he does, so there is no need to just keep neutral jumping for no reason. Use the normals to stuff his attempts to get in and save your meter for ex-hb as an AA.
oh yeah it loses to EX moves im just on about regular attacks, it beats TAP after he has turned around a lot of (good) boxer players wont be using headbutt on reversal and if you get hit by wake up/panic ultra and super thats your own fault I guess lol
After watching Ponta a few times during TRF tournaments, I kinda started to wonder why he kept doing c/s.mp, c.lp xx headbutt. I mean, it doesn’t combo because of a hole between mp and lp yet he still does it and after thinking a bit more about it, I now understand.
s.mp is -1/+2
c.mp is 0/+3
Both have 8 frame startup (bad), can’t be combo’d, but have very good range. Also, because they’re medium strength attacks, they gain +3 frames on counter-hit. This means that both will link to c.lp on counter-hit, with c.mp being ridiculously easy and s.mp being pretty easy. So in situations where you feel a counter-hit can occur, doing c/s.mp, c.lp xx fp hhs, s.rh will net you a meterless 350 damage…
A good strategy you can use against boxer is c.mp just outside of his jab range and then c.lp xx fp hhs. If you CH, you get free damage (260), but probably can’t link the s.rh due to range. If you don’t CH, you have a very difficult to reversal 4 frame window where you will most likely not get your c.lp counter-hit by his c.lp because reversaling with normals is significantly harder.
There are a bunch of other characters this will work on, mainly characters with awkward or slow reversals, especially reversals without invulnerability. Against a shoto with 2 bars and an ultra, don’t do this or you will get murdered. Just saying it now.
your original post stated that it beat “all” of his normals/specials on wake up.
why would anyone use a normal on wake up?
why would anyone use a special that didn’t have invincibility or armor on wake up?
tap on wake up beats meaty st.rh (because it’s invincible) which is what we’re talking about. or do you mean like a really late st.rh after they’ve gotten up already?
boxer players will use ex headbutt on wake up unless you show them you are good at using very meaty low moves with low recovery (like cr.lk, cr.mk that make it whiff). other wise it’s the same as any srk and it leads to ultra.
basically what i’m saying is that st.rh doesn’t really beat any reversal that a boxer player is actually going to do.
Rewrote the M.Bison matchup. Let me know what you think gents.
Bison is one of my least favorite matchups. This will definitely come in handy, thanks!