waaait.im confused bout the ochio rh thing.explain abit more situation wise…bt yah i spose to gh is like a dash punch from rog. js gotta get that timing down! or reaction more so…
Uh…I think he’s saying after an Oicho, neutral jump and use Roundhouse. It will beat a wakeup lariat clean.
then, if they start trying to greenhand out, you have oicho to answer that
Yeah I will be there. I thought it was casuals again though. If you are not getting any matches on the recorded screen holler at me and I will record your matches for you. I always bring my HD recorder with me.
Also, Giefs never respect your ultra. When you are cornered and they are doing cross-up lariat bullshit or just trying to lariat you on wake-up throw out your ultra after the 2nd hit of punch lariat (or what would be the second hit if they are not holding forward).
yes after an ochio you are at perfect frame distance with RH when you neutral jump any closer and you will trade at best… you do have options on giefs wakeup (which is more then i can say for sagats) so get at that distance jump in medium punch into…jump back RH lol fuck getting spd’d also…my jab headbutt gets stuffed my jump in mk should i dare butt slam it? it also seems to trade against dt FP its aggravating that all giefs do is GH whiff ultra when i think its gonna hit and i will block i guess i should jump back more neutral jumping in that situation is NOOOO GOOD
Just watch it when your cornered!
getting cornered just allows me to jump back RH forward HB FOR FRAYYYYY lol but ya they will be trying to kill you
Yeah for some reason I like to be in the corner against Geif too. Probably just not playing good enough Geifs.
heeellll no i hate being in the corner period! aha i dnt care who it is…i stray away from the corner…most people i love to push to the corner…bt other than that i keep gief mid screen…bt yah when im in the corner against gief…jb rh is quite goooood.it always leads to cr.forward headbutt…then he is back midscreen where i like him
Anyone else going to project blocks at the end of this month?
Also have any of you guys went to other character threads and read up on their match-ups Vs. Honda. Almost all of the are just bland nonsense that doesn’t cover a smart Honda player.
i’d like partial credit for that nonsense due to using butt slam as a cross up over and over from feb to april of 09’
Psh you stopped in April? I keep that tactic going strong =p
Something I would appreciate some testing on from other Honda players vs Sagat - in particular his zoning game with option selects and kara moves behind the low fireball. There are quite a few Sagats locally who are adding option selects to their game so am interested to see if Honda has anything to help close space safely with jumps from full screen as opposed to having to play dodge ball to get in all the time (although necessary nonetheless).
- Sagat shoots low fireball from pretty much full screen and then option selects kara fireball/forward hard kick - if the fireball hits or is blocked a second kara ball comes out, if you jump the first ball then forward hard kick comes out in an attempt to AA you and then comes the follow up:
I set this up tonight in training and jump forward HP/HK seems to work well if you jump just after the fireball leaves Sagats hands. What I found was if you jump quickly, you are closer and land as the forward hard kick comes out and are safe. What I also found is that if Sagat is just a bit forward from full screen and you put out HP or HK on your jump in it stuffs his forward HK most times if you put the kick punch out at the peak of your jump or just a bit after.
- Sagat shoots low fireball and then comes in behind with a kara knee:
As above, because the forward hk or kara brings him forward it seems with the right timing you can stuff his knee before he leaves the ground and follow up as above. Jump as soon as you see the fireball and the worst you get is a bit of chip off the knee when it comes out and are again next to him.
- low fireball followed by any normal fireball:
Full screen jump is safe.
The only option I could see that you have not chance against is tigershot, kara uppercut follow up (most likely when Sagat has 2 bars).
Would really appreciate if some other people could test this. Sagat will have these options in Super too, so if this is at all viable its worth knowing sooner than later imo. Also please pick holes in this as you want - just testing it and trying to get some second and third opinions.
yoo i’ll be at project blocks aka level | up. wow utah’s gonna be in the house too? along with norcal, SD AND AZ? it’s gonna be a crazy tourney =O too bad sign ups filled up before i got a chance to even sign up ;[ anywho, you still owe me a mirrior and i’ll be on the lookout for you @ project blocks. i’ll buy ya a beer
Is anyone starting to feel that the boxer matchup is not 5-5, not in our favor at all?
First of all, I feel as if boxer controls the match. It seems quite difficult when the boxer is really patient. Cornering you, baiting out whiffed jab headbutts by dancing outside of range, keeping you under pressure, taking advantage of boxer’s excellent normals. Building that super meter, shutting out all of my options (I can’t even ex headbutt without eating a super, and buttslams are pretty much out of the question). The most I can do is if I get boxer in the corner with jab hands pressure, even then I have to cautious not to get hit by anything. I feel like I can’t do a thing, that my options are shut out. Especially in round 2…
st rh jump in mp timed well and a spaced neutral jump to bait his headbutt also idk what it is but if you buttslam and its blocked and you cr lk or mk, his headbutt will whiff
if nothing else focus his dash straights and chop the air from time to time
Also, instead of ochio on giefs wake up normal grab will still beat ex GH, you dont want to get neutral jump raped because ochio takes time to recover
I’m mainly having trouble with the ground game against Balrog, establishing dominance through spacing and presence. It just seems so impossible, the Balrogs I play against punish my whiffed standing jabs with dash punch at max range. My fucking STANDING JAB.
Also, a blocked buttslam puts you in negative frames. Balrog can beat out any of your pokes (and even a second buttslam) with crouching jab. My opponents do this all the time. With this matchup played to near perfection, buttslam against a standing Balrog is just not a great idea.
As for timing and spacing my jump ins, that IS something I should work on. Balrog’s whiffed standing fierce/roundhouse leaves him pretty vulnerable to counter attacik. As for whiffing standing fierce chop, not a great idea since it’s so easily punishable…
Are there any other suggestions? I’m primarily looking for ways to get close while maintaining the momentum…
i was playing some casuals before a tournament the other day against a solid ken player. the thing i have realized about that matchup is that the shoto option select is devastating for poor honda. what happens is once ken has the knockdown he will jump in with a meaty roundhouse and input a dp. if the roundhouse is blocked the dp does not come out , BUT if you go for a anti air headbutt (jab or ex) your eating a dp. the reason this works is because kens strong dp has very long active invincible frames, even longer than ex headbutt. so what you see is that when he jumps and honda tries to reversal headbutt you will see him and ken both be paused in the air with there moves and eventually the srk hits poor honda in the face.
so basically, if a ken knocks you down and you see him jump in with roundhouse. your best option is to block, cuz trying to punish that is a bad idea.
I have been working on the boxer match up as well lately. The only way the boxer can punish your standing jab is if they throw the dash punch at the same time or before you jab, at max jab dash range they cannot punish your s.jab on reaction, you can block. To advance on boxer I toss out almost random jabs so he cannot get the pattern down. And until/if boxer gets super I abuse the hell out of jab hb if hes with in range, if does anything to punsih jab hb immediately toss out another jab hb to punish. This will only work once on a good player heh then the jab hb kin of puts you back in spacing just outside his jab range.Also there is a range when approaching that boxers love to toss out that sweep. Mixing in FA backdash can help you bait it out, if you guess also, you can stuff at with the edge of your c.jab.
On boxers jump ins I can’t quite put this into words but through experience with many jumpings, with honda you can feel when you can AA hb if they are not hitting you deep. I say feel becuase if they misspace its a free AA, if they jump deep you have to block it and play his games up close.
Now up close his cr.jabs are a beast but those can’t hurt you unless you stop blocking. He will have to either grab you or overhead. Overhead you can block or jab hb and grabs need to be tech or stuffed with cr.jab on a delayed throw. Be sure to buffer hands when tossing out close cr.jabs so if you get a hit you get hhs right after.
And now the reason I think its a 5-5 is knockdown. Once you get a knock down on boxer you have the advantage. You can cross him up, and most good boxers will block this leading to your throw, or short into jab hands games. His headbutt takes 11 frames to start so if they try that you can time and stuff it.
Be sure to maximize your dmg on boxer as well, every jab hands I land on standing boxer I finish with EX buttslam for extra dmg. When you have the momentum you can do some heavy dmg, and when he has it you are stuck responding. Just try to get familiar with his options at the 3 spaces the fight mainly occurs at (his cr.jab, his sweep, his jab dash punch) and respond.
Anyone else’s thoughts?
Forget buttslams as a pressure tool - reversals only. Good Rogs just crouch jab once you hit the deck and pin you there like you said…then you have to deal with all his shit.
As a jump in lp for variety gives you good range (2/3 screen jump ins) and does okay against c.hp AA. Its more like a jump in tick and hands pressure is what you will get afterwards or even a straight Oicho if you are feeling it. Lots of Rogs I play get a bit wierded out by the move as Honda never normally uses it and it makes his hitbox go a little funny. I dont use it for damage, but for closing the space from time to time. I will also jab hands and burn meter on cancel hands to Oicho for the knockdown - this is where you have the advantage on his wake up. Everyone says it, but turlte like mad and wait for the overhead to come. Patience and mind games are really important - whoever breaks first and chases too hard normally comes off worst in my experience.
General opinion amongst my mates is its a 6-4 to Rog, especially now that his Super and Ultra can now punish blocked headbutts (all), your buttslam is not a great weapon, his normals and pokes are better and he can chip away from a distance fairly safely. If you get your spacing right and put him on his arse as much as possible then you have a strong chance in the fight.
Any help against Bison(dictator)? Thanks in advance!