overhead stomp beats abels wake up ultra i mean what else is he gonna do on wake up jump back? medium buttslam cancel should hit if he stands there and if he jumps back :tup: mindgamesm, i will d+f RH ochio him on his wake up all day until he does something different with akuma i never ultra lol let him wake up and maintain charge i want him to teleport or jab hhs on his wakeup if he smartens up i’ve played some good akumas but none have been able to keep me out for 99 seconds
Can someone please confirm what heabutts on block are punishable by Balrog with Super and Ultra. Played a Rog online tonight who got me with Ultra on blocked EX headbutt - WTF???
My understanding is:
MP and HP - Punish with both Super and Ultra by Rog on block.
LP - Punish by Super on block.
EX - safe.
I went into training straight after and tested it and it seemed to confirm my original thoughts so as you can imagine I am questioning it right now.
Was I the victim of some online BS or can you Ultra that EX headbutt on block - the Rog player even messaged me to say Ex was punishable after the second time. I was blocking for sure, oh and it happened three times as I thought it could not be true lol. Either way would appreciate confirmation as if it was online BS that Rog needs to know as offline his ass would be toast with those antics.
ummm ultra after EX headbutt is apparently not 100%. he also has to block standing. like against blanka.
if you start the ultra with kicks. it starts 1 frame faster.
I believe balrog can always reversal super ANY of your headbutts if he does it correctly, starting with kicks and proper reversal timing.
The thread is here: http://www.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=212305&pagenumber=&212305-Jav1ts-and-other-s-TOP-SECRET-ROG-TRICKS-)=
and here is a youtube clip. [media=youtube]qYIB821e-Ts&feature=player_embedded[/media]
Thanks. That will make me read other threads more often lol. I just tested it and for sure its not 100% all the time, but taking away EX heabutt as an option in the fight when Rog builds meter for fun and can punish all heabutts with Ultra or Super changes it from a 5-5 to 5.5-4.5 to Rogs advantage - like Rog needed any advantages in general.
Ok so that makes it lk tatsu. Part of the timing necessary is that you need to get the directional inputs in before the cross over and then hit the 3p after he crosses the center of the character model. Training mode recording is your best bet to practice against this set up.
you can pretty much always auto correct ex hb any cross up tatsu. if it’s coming out going forward, that means you’re doing the hb too early. if it’s not coming out and you’re getting hit, then you’re probably doing it too early or screwing up the motion.
just keep playing with it until you get the timing down.
be careful though, when good players see you start doing this too much, they will do jump in fp to the front of you instead.
or even worse they will do safe jump in fp option select srk or back teleport.
don’t forget you can also auto correct super and ultra any cross up tatsu, and actually it’s kind of easier on the timing. timing is different than normal ex hb though.
as for dictator, ryu, akuma or anyone else who escapes from the corner by going to the air (air tatsu or whatever). if you have charge you can hb it, super, or ultra it.
you just have to know the timing. you basically need to hit the button right a little after they pass over you.
for a hb, you can either press move you’re stick to the corner then back to the direction they went. or actually just push the button at the correct time. your back turns into forward as the cross up.
so actually to do the auto correct super or ultra, if you time it correctly… you can just go from down back to forward (the corner) to back and hit the buttons. it’s often easier though just to do back, to forward, to back, to forward, and then back again.
whatever is most consistent for you. the trick is to get the timing down for when to hit the button with the specific motion you try to do.
keep in mind this same trick works more or less for all moves that go through you, like akuma teleport, able roll, or blanka rainbow roll that goes over you.
oh and yeah, rog can punish any head butt with super. i did not know he could punish ex hb with ultra though. that’s new to me.
I just thought of this but is it possible to oicho throw Abel in between his rekka combo after the first hit on block? I was reading the Cammy match up thread and they say you can grab him after you block the first hit.
Oicho would only work with LP rekka after the first hit blocked because it’s negative 7 frames. Other strengths are only minus 3 which is probably why they are able to throw. Oicho takes 5 so it should be a no go, at least not a guaranteed. They shouldn’t be able to counter the oicho but they should be able to jump out of it making it whiff. On that note you should be able to oicho either the mid or low second attacks because they are negative 9 and 5 frame respectively.
Does anybody know of any use for lp HHS and mp HHS?
Is hondas normal grab faster than his oicho? Doubt it’ll work but maybe that can grab the first blocked hit. Also what is the best thing to do when knocked down by abel. i always try to grab and get punished for it and if i block and wait, i eat a command grab.
The only use I find for lp HHS is to build meter full screen. mp.HHS can link to s.HK. I say it’s just a waste to use them.
Regular throws are 3 frames, oicho is 5 and has no special properties just good range. Abel’s tordando throw starts in the same number of frames as oicho but has the special properties of (complete even command) throw invulnerability for regular versions and hit invulnerability on EX. So tornado throw seems like a faster throw but it’s just the proper use of the special properties that allow it to win in a lot of situations.
I don’t know any abel players that use the lp version of rekka so it pretty much rules out the oicho attempt but regular throw could/should be able to catch them on the other strengths (I will test the best I can and edit). The best punish would has usual be cr. lp to hp hands.
To respond to Abel on wake up it depends on what set up he tries. If he does try some roll shenanigans you can throw him with a regular trow if he’s still rolling. If he starts with light attacks then you are probably being set up for a tick throw so jump straight up or backdash and punish.
Going to try to get a match recorded this weekend and hopefully post it up for criticism…should I post it in here or the video thread? I mean video seems obvious, but I also wanna dissect it and let you guys tear me apart…
Were you playing Honda last night? I didn’t get to see you play.
still having trouble with gief played a west coast gief who did stupid empty jump setups but still…what do i do when i have no meter??? i used to be able to just jump in rh jump back rh sometimes even on crouching lariat but this matchup is so stupid, i can butt slam his jump ins but if i fuck up its free spd ex headbutt is great but he has so much hp its ridiculous this is undoubtedly my worst match up aside from fuerte which i’m getting better at but still trading with gief is just dumb should i just turtle because he will come to me i just dont know what to do besides chop the air when he jumps
if he was doin empty jump set ups close the gap between u guys abit…i know its dangerous to play gief close,bt obviously if he is bein able to jump in on u for free…thats not bueno…cuz then if u dnt have meter u have a better chance of lp headbut when u have no meter as an AA. or even js s.fp if he gets right infront of u…empty should js push him right back to where he started…and then its turtle shell time…and really the only time i sumo splash against gief is on wakeup of he is tryna cross me up. (and thats ex) its js to get the hell away…imo sumo splash against gief is waaay to risky
I’m going to assume the empty jumps are coming in close for a grab/Ultra set up. If you have a Gief abusing empty jumps as he lands smack him in his face with the nj fierce. He doesn’t have many options once he jumps down into your space to deal with it because it will beat the majority of what he can throw out. Worst case for you is he blocks the nj fierce and if you hit him ow enough in the jump arc can go into a “safe” jab HHS or a jump back strong chop to cover your escape. Once the Gief knows about the nj wall and begins to jump with the knee, jump back chop (strong) will beat it clean in the air. I will move back generally bringing the gief with me until I end up cornering myself (not good =p) or avoiding the corner by reseting positioning on any knockdown you score. The scary range I feel for geif is right outside whiff GH range, I will nj most GH on recation to aviod anything coming after the whiff. (If you block GH go to town on him).
Other things to watch for or note that I have come across:
-Avoid getting predictible with your nj, as gief will juggle and knockdown with ex GH at ranges
-nj fierce into jab handsxxhands on hit is wonderful for meter and dmg(beats lariet clean as long as your arms don’t connect with tips of his arms)
-Avoid splash unless you know you can hit the late EX ACorrect splash on your wake up
-EX HB during his tick strings
-s.fierce the hell out of him just outside sweep range/s.rh outside of the chop range sparingly watch out for a jump
-Ultra any blocked/whiffed punch lariet after two spins
-If your feeling gutsy a spaced forward jump strong chop is pretty safe if you know the range and hit with your tip to keep him honest and regain some ground (you land and your spaced for s.fierce chop and out of his throw range)
-Overall I run with the chop in the air if im not throwing out the wall over jb rh becuase of the large quick range(above where the rh would hit for air to air) on it over the downward pointing toe of the jb rh.
Having a rough time against Bison. A blocked slide is the only thing I feel like I can reliably punish, everything else is a crapshoot. If he has meter, my wakeup games are rendered null and void by ex headstomp. I can’t seem to AA his crossups with a cross-up EX headbutt, so I’ll just block. I feel like, basically, I can predict a lot but punish/stuff none of it.
j.nei fp all day! well not all day…bt u can shut him out pretty well from there…well timed j.fp will beat out ex headstop…js cant get too predicitble other he will be able to either beat out ur neu j.fp or he can js dash and do s.rh depending on range…so watch out for that…other than that if he is comin at u jumping u can jab headbutt AA pretty clean…ex works of course bt i usually save meter for times im not able to keep him out and he crosses me up…if he is devils reverse happy u can ultra that and the very end of it…if u have ultra that is…other than that if u can time those reg jab headbutts as an AA ex headbutt beats out dictator clean…
Anyone use the following combo on Sagat (I have never seen it done) - if he does a dumb fireball that you can jump punish (even the best Gats do them from time to time):
J.HK/HP, S.HP, C.LP xx HP Heabutt (394 Damage no meter and not corner specific) or you can replace Heabutt with hands (390 Damage). Add a super and you get 560-570 damage. The link between the S.HP (close version) and the C.LP is the same as C.LK, C.LP, which I use often now. Obviously the jump in needs to hit deep enough for you to be close enough for close HP, but when you get the opportunity, damage is the name of the game and this deals plenty and conserves meter if you want to. If you are feeling really naughty, start hands and cancel to Oicho for circa 520-530 damage) for 2 bars of damage, but one for special occasions - if you are sat on 2 bars, are playing a good opponent and start this combo and they have seen it before you will be lucky to get it everytime for sure.
Also agianst Gief, where you have the opportunity after a deep NJ.HP (lets say to punish missed Green Hand rigtt under you) for the S.HP, C.LP xx hands follow up as above.
It’s come back material for sure or if you are feeling confident a good way to take a big lead. You can mix up out of it, you can replace normal hands with EX hands for extended combos, you can even cancel the S.HP straight to Oicho mix ups. At the end of the day it is situation specific, but especially vs Gat that situation does and can happen.
Against other fireball characters the headbutt option only works with EX headbutt for 392 damage and hands only hits a few times (not really worth it unless you want big damage for quick cancel super). Forget doing it on Guile, he recovers too fast.
What are peoples thoughts.
i’ve hit that jump fierce stand fierce jab hands its pretty nuts and ya i approve cl fierce jab is a great combo setup