In the end i went with this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824001278&Tpk=t220hd
Samsung T220HD with various inputs(hdmi, component, tv tuner) and it also had a $50 rebate. Xbox360 via vga(or hdmi) ps2 via component, and cable. Ahhh… I have no reason to leave my room ever again. Oh wait work…
As I understand, games generally store a copy of the the input bits at the beginning of the loop. This is done so that the inputs are consistant throughout the game logic portion of the frame… Even if this isn’t the case here, it is certianally the case that rendering takes the majority (like 95%) of the frame time.
So if each frame takes 16ms from start to finish, the worst case here would be if you press ‘up’ immediately after the loop has already stored a copy of the input bits… (or immediately after the rendering phase has begun.)
In this case, the entire frame would be rendered without your ‘up’; The next frame will have this input, but it’s going to take another full 16ms to render that frame before you see the result of your input.
Wouldn’t that mean a worst case of just under 2 frames, or 32 ms before you see the result of your input?
You explained it accurately. I believe the game is throttled to 60 frames per second, not limited by the time rendering and other processing takes. Typically a game loop is like this:
update (change game state based on input and on time passed since last update)
render (draw everything)
sleep until the next frame should be drawn
repeat
In order to keep a solid 60 fps, which is very important for SF, render needs to complete faster than 1/60th of a second. Rendering time varies per frame, but even the most graphically intense frames should render fast and then sleep in order to keep a constant 60 frames per second.
That said, I did my test on the menu screens, which I assume is drawn near instantaneously, but otherwise works just like the game loop for gameplay so should spend nearly all of its time sleeping. One annoying thing about both the SFIV and Xbox menus is that they have a “fade in” effect when the currently select menu item changes. Probably doesn’t affect much though.
I would really need to test my setup on a few different projectors, including known low-lag PJs, to really have meaningful results. I might bring the Xbox to work and try it on the fancy business PJ we have there, but otherwise I don’t have access to other PJs. I’m also not happy doing the tests with only a 30 frames per second camera. I looked at all the cameras and camcorders at a local store (that had a good return policy!) but none could do better than 30 fps.
I recently got a fightstick and noticed that when I would hear the microswitch click, the movement on the screen lags at least one second behind. Could this be my TV? I suspected input lag from my recently purchased fightstick. It’s the Mad Catz SFIV TE one. After further research, it would appear Samsung HDTVs are pretty bad when it comes to lag, which is precisely what I own. I spent a great deal of money on it and was ignorant of the lag issues. Is there any way to fix this? I’m thinking I just didn’t notice before with the controller but its obvious with the stick and almost unplayable. What should I do?
One second is crazy long. Much over 100ms and you would start to notice that people talking on screen are not in sync with their words. One second is 1000ms, I doubt any TV would ever lag so long.
How does lag work on the 360 with its analog scaler? It can scale to any resolution, but does that add lag? I have my 360 hooked up to my 1280x1024 monitor (which is the res the 360 outputs at) via VGA. Where is lag added in that set-up?
Just try to offload as much of the work as possible. Make sure if you’ve got a 1080p set that your 360/ps3 is set to that resolution as well. Make sure you aren’t plugged in via a composite (yellow/red/white) cable. Do this and set your tv to game mode and you’ll have it much better than 1 of lag.
I’ve been looking at buying a new TV for awhile and have been doing a lot of research in this thread to make sure I buy something suitable for both gaming and home theater. I’m getting overwhelmed by all the variables… and also most of the recommendations here have been for smaller monitors, but I’m looking for something around 50".
I don’t have an XBox 360 Elite (regular 360), so what I’ve gathered so far is that probably the best thing for my SFIV experience is to look for a 50" Plasma or LCD that has a VGA port that doesn’t do post-processing and displays 720p natively and then connect my Xbox via the VGA? Is it even possible to find a TV that does 720p natively on the VGA port but also does 1080p from an HDMI port if I want to use Blu-Ray at some point?
The Viewsonic on Newegg that the OP recommended looked pretty good also, however it doesn’t look like you can get it anymore and I was looking for something larger. Are there any similar displays that anyone knows about that are larger and have a similar input lag time?
We really do need a list of larger HDTVs that have minimal lag as recommended by an above poster, that would really be helpful if anyone has something like that available – I didn’t see anything when crawling through the thread but my apologies if I missed it.
Edit: Just to vent my frustration… Does anyone else notice the absolute plethora of retards posting in threads all across the internet concerning good gaming TVs about how great games look on their TV? I’ve opened so many useless threads with people talking about how great their image quality is with Xbox360 or something stupid like that, completely ignorant of the fact that their TV is 4-5 frames behind their console. Kudos to the OP for creating this thread, researching this is ridiculously frustrating.
Yes they are ignorant, but 4 to 5 frames barely matters in most of the games out there, but of course we play fighting games, and it matters.
Do any LCD/Plasma/LED tv’s have multiple native resolutions?
In any case you can set your 360 to 1080p and the lag caused by the 360 when upscaling 720p images is as fast as it gets.
(Also fyi all 360s for the past year or more have been hdmi equipped, not just the elite anymore)
No they don’t, according to what I’ve read the 720p or 1080p native resolution is fixed absolutely and you can’t have both.
What I’m wondering now is if SF4, being 720p, lags due to scaling if you use an HDMI cable to connect Xbox360 Elite to an HDMI port on a 1080p TV.
I’m not sure how that works, as maybe the scaling is done on the Xbox since the HDMI cable should be transmitting 1080p? I just dont know…
Edit: I think I’ve found the answer to this one (finally)
*From AVS Forum:
Xbox 360 - The Xbox 360 is capable of outputting 480P, 720P or 1080P. The Xbox 360 (unlike the PS3) will upscale the source (game/dvd) to the resolution set in the display settings section on the Xbox system console. As described below, you may want to set your Xbox to output 1080P, if you would like to take advantage of the HDMI2/PC feature. If you are using the HDMI2/PC feature and you have the Xbox set to output 480P or 720P, the A650 will disable the PC mode feature and return to normal operation (and therefore increase the signal processing time). If you are using your Xbox 360 and HDMI2/PC, you may want to set Reference Levels (under Display on your Xbox console to “Expanded”.
Playstation 3 - The PS3 operates different from the Xbox 360. The PS3 will output the source format. This means that, if you are playing a 480P or 720P title (game/dvd), and trying to utilize the HDMI2/PC feature it will not work and will not reduce the signal processing (input lag).*
AFAIK computer monitors don’t add lag, ever.
Has anyone tried either the Wii/PS3 VGA cable or HDFury (i only looked at the first page and last 3 pages)?
The Wii/PS3 VGA cable would be perfect for me since I have both of those consoles and its like $30 as opposed to the $100 for the HDFury, but I’m curious about a few things first. What is the quality of the display once the signal is converted? Is it a pain in the ass to setup/use? Does it perform its job of eliminating lag well?
If anyone has a HDFury those questions would also apply to it as well.
Thanks.
This comparison of computer monitors disagrees with that sentiment. Quite a few LCD computer monitors tend to produce input lag - you still have to be careful when shopping for one to use for gaming.
Damn, that LCD test just made me all paranoid now.
Speaking of which, does anyone know anything about the Samsung TOC monitors? Not the A650 HDTV’s, it’s the monitors released before then. They have multiple inputs, and I thought it would lag since it’s a Samsung which are kind of notorious for the lag (Especially since the native resolution isn’t the 1080P they advertise, but 1680x1050), but it does function as a monitor first, as opposed to an HDTV which is TV first, and then a VGA input. I would really like this since it’s cheaper than an HDTV of the same size and I’m looking for Coaxial Inputs/AV as well.
A friend of mine wants to buy a 20 inch at Wal-Mart. Does anyone have any experience with TVs from Wal-Mart?
Purchased a Wii/PS3>VGA cable as linked in OP, but signal only comes through when TV is on Component Source, and only in black/white. No signal comes through in PC (VGA Port) source.
I’d appreciate any assistance in the matter.
Thanks.
Somebody earlier in this thread mentioned that rock band 2 test was not entirely reliable, and I would like to know:
The reason I ask is because the test is a lot more convenient than dual monitors, and that method only tests the VGA port (PS3 particularly).
I’m seriously considering heading into a department store with my PS3 and rb2 guitar in tow to see how some of the larger TVs perform.
Hehe, I worked at Walmart for 7 years. They carry lower end electronics, but the best thing is you can just return the crap if you aren’t happy with it… they’ll take back anything.
I thought about buying Rock Band just for the test, but I couldn’t find anyone detailing how it works. How does it work!?
So I might be able to help out some people here.
I got the Mayflash cable for Wii/PS3, and it’s… functional. For the PS3: You have to first set your display to component, and make sure that both the VGA and the green component cable is plugged in. Next, set the video display to Component and choose the resolutions your TV or monitor can support. The screen should flicker or turn black; change your input to VGA or PC Input or whathaveyou, and you should have your picture.
Mayflash Pros:
Mayflash Cons:
It will work for you if all you care about is lag elimination. I personally ordered and HDFury and an HDMI to DVI-D cable and should get that in the next few days; I’ll post up a review on that when I get it.