Well I went ahead and tested my Plasma HDTV and my 1080p monitor, used the Rock Band 2 calibration tool and ended up with 30ms on the Plasma through Component (xbox set to 720p) and 0-1ms through VGA on my 1080p monitor (xbox set to 1920x1080).
I wish the lag on the TV would be a lot better than 30ms but without a VGA port on it not sure how it will turn out. It is reasonably acceptable though. On the other hand, my monitor is flawless and it’s what I use the most when playing ranked/competition matches, though the quality is a bit washed out (compared to component) since it’s using VGA (not sure why Microsoft has never fixed this yet).
No it’s not the same effect. Pixel refresh rates determine how blurry motion is going to be on an LCD, not how responsive it is. Timing and clarity are divided.
Only if it’s in 1080p mode. Less than that will create scaling and be in the 8-16 range. Still top tier speeds. Never personally tested a Mayflash cord myself.
by ms of a tv does he mean pixel refresh or lag. if he means lag YES it is the same effect. if he means pixel refresh then no your correct. i was assuming he was talking about lag seeing as how thats what this thread is about.
I’m sorry to hear about the plasma lag. Set your colors to “expanded” for your monitor to make it less washed out. This was what MS added to combat color issues via vga.
Nah, that guy was talking about the pixel refresh rate thinking it meant input lag. Easy to confuse someone with that when it’s printed on the TV’s box.
and the sony Bravia 40S4100 has very nice delay for the set. ive been getting around 1 frame of lag. hooked up via VGA and all settings turned down(cinemode is off and noise reduction off)
The major reason why MS included an internal scaler was because at that time many HD TV’s could not upscale 720p to 1080i/p. This is something that the PS3 obviously suffers from. As far as the performance of the 360 scaler being hands down better than any TV’s scaler, well I’m going to have to see some specs to back that up before I fully believe it. That is not to say that the 360’s scaler isn’t good or better than many TV’s, but many of the high-end panels out there come with high-end scalers
That’s very true, and actually about a year ago I did buy the official VGA connector but I decided to stay with component video because the colors were very washed out due to the different color gamut between VGA and composite. However, I hear with the NXT update there is an ‘enhanced’ mode that ups the saturation to TV levels, so I think it’s worth giving VGA another shot.
there are very few tvs that are built just to SCALE media, they are mainly built to accept any video signal and make it look good.
also show a tv that has a faster scale time than a 360. i dare you!!! just run the 360 on a tv w/o scaling then have the 360 scale and see the difference.
That’s the problem though, there is very little if any technical specs on the ANA scaler. I hear what you’re saying though, but any sort of ‘this is better than that’ without some hard numbers is anecdotal at best.
Edit:
As a follow up, I hooked up my 360 with VGA again and set the ‘Reference Level’ (aka Black Level) to intermediate. For my plasma, intermediate set my black level to Digital 16 which is what you want as I wasn’t seeing any ‘blacker than black’ levels. I do however see some ‘whiter than white’ which is generally accepted as OK. Unfortunately, you’ll need an ISF Calibration DVD to determine which reference level is best for your panel. After that, I honed the RGB levels in with my colorimeter and now I am getting color just as vibrant as I was with my component input but now at near-native resolution; not sure why MS decided to use 1360x768 instead of 1366x768, but what’s 4,608 pixels between friends? =)
P.S.
If you guys are interested in doing your own calibrations with a colorimeter on the cheap (~$150), let me know and I can make some suggestions.
The NXT update is the radically new dashboard the 360 has. And apparently I was wrong, this ‘Reference Level’ feature came in much earlier than that.
Regarding VGA vs HDMI @ 1080p. Assuming your panel supports both natively, hdmi/dvi is the more preferred as it has a higher data rate than VGA and the signal from Xbox to TV stays completely in the digital domain.
Just figured I’d post the results of my recent attempt to get rid of input lag:
I have a Dynex DX-LCD32 TV which has a native res of 720p I believe.
Using PS3 via HDMI, I could notice a tiny bit of input lag while playing SF4. My only ways of verifying this lag was to try playing a music game (Gitaroo Man) and to try playing SF4 on an SD tv. While playing Gitaroo Man I could also feel the slight input lag, making completing a song on master mode impossible, and playing SF4 on the SDTV felt much more responsive and I was executing links and move with strange timing (like Viper’s Seismo xx Seismo) much more consistently.
So, from reading this thread I can only assume that this TV has a little bit of post processing lag that I can only notice in music games and SF4. To try and fix this I bought the Mayflash PS3/Wii VGA cable. After trying to set it up, and failing a lot, I’ve found out that for some reason this TV’s VGA port ONLY supports 480p. Any other resolution gives me the “Mode not Support” message on the VGA channel. The video looks terrible in 480p (the VGA has a yellow tint to it for some reason) and I can’t get any audio from the TV speakers (have to use AV audio out on the SD TV), but I’m pretty sure the lag is completely gone. Again, my only real test is Gitaroo Man, but I can easily beat master mode now and the button timing feels perfect. I know my ears and fingers aren’t exactly the best lag test, but I’ve been playing rhythm games for a very long time so I’m pretty satisfied with the minimal, if not nonexistent, input lag.
Again, sorry for not having any official test results, but I hope this information helps anyone with a Dynex TV or Mayflash cable.
tests say that the sony z4500 would be an awesome choice both for gaming and watching movies. its said to have 0-10 ms input lag in game mode. is that true?
Depends on the connectors of the screen itself. Its different on all screens. I’d say: test all the ports and you be the judge :). “Digital” is just a word… Just make sure you have some audio cables if you’re using dvi/vga (the red/white cables).
I play on a computer monitor (BenQ V2400W) and use my xbox over VGA, and in my case it looks great. Good thing aswell, since i can connect my dvd recorder over HDMI thus hooking up my tv cable onto the screen.
For around 700 euros I have a 360, 24" high quality screen, dvd recorder, tv. Only can recommend it to people who want something in their bedroom.
Next stop is a shuttle pc to play my .mkv HD movies on the screen :lovin:
We need to be careful here, because when a TV’s spec say 1080i, that doesn’t always mean the native resolution of the TV is 1080 (native being how many actual pixels the panel has.) Instead they could mean the TV can accept a 1080i signal and then downscale it to the panel’s native resolution. But, for the rest of these questions lets assume you can display native 1080i.
Assuming the PS3 was set to 720p, your TV would both upscale to 1080 and deinterlace the progressive data. Yes, there is some lag associated with this, how much depends on the quality of the scaler chip.
Yes, no. The PS3 will downscale the content to 720p (no deinterlace since the source is progressive too) and then it will output that 720p to your TV. Your TV will then need to both upscale to 1080 and deinterlace the signal as in Q1
Find out what your panel’s native resolution is, then try to set your PS3 to output as close to that resolution as possible. That will eliminate as much of the processing delays as you can. To eliminate some of the post-processing delays, put the TV in ‘game mode.’
I don’t know if there’s such a thing for ps3 but for people with a 360 that want 0ms and good picture quality i’ve got a tip (at least if you don’t mind small screens)
Get that old CRT out of the basement, hook it up to your 360 with the vga cable, set the resolution to 1240x1024 or 1600x1200. High resolution with 0ms lag :looney:
To be honest, I really feel trying to squeeze out every last drop of lag is really not worth the trouble as the network latency is just going to eat that all up. You could think that both parties experience the same latency and thus it equals out, but network routing is generally asymmetrical and thus not all of it will equal out.