If I was it sure would have been a lot more funny! lol
1.) From everything I hear the PS1 playback on PS3 even upscaled is perfect. All of the problem lies in PS2 games. PSN downloaded PS1 game are simply disc images and nothing more. 100% pure PSX.
2.) Using a component cable and setting the games to 480i will stop the 2 frame lag from the PS3’s side, but you might create lag by making your HDTV do the work. Your HDTV can’t possibly be worse than the PS3 is at deinterlacing though… What TV do you have? If you drop HDMI then you lose 1080p Blu-Ray playback. That sucks.
I personally just use a dedicated PS2 for my games. I have a dedicated deinterlacer for stuff like that.
Thanks for your comment! I run in 1080p so there’s no scaling by the 650 of the image. That allows me to use PC mode as well. If at all possible, ALWAYS feed a 1080p signal to the TV.
While the Xbox 360 is a native 720p console that upscales to 1080p, It’s DAMN good at it. I’ve never heard reports of lag being added by the console it’s self. A powerful and fast scaling solution was in the hardware design.
Ok. It turns out there’s a bug in the firmware. Once I was made aware of it, I took steps to avoid it and ran these tests again. It appears that as far as input lag is concerned there is no difference between the A630 and A650 series. I apologize for claiming otherwise, but bringing attention to my results allowed me to find a post about the bug in the first place For your reference, I have put the old post in quotes which details the results I got when the amp bug was active. In this new post, I have taken steps to work around the bug!
The first pic shows the average result I got. Of the 16 pictures I took, 12 of them showed a 50ms difference. The second pic shows the best result I received - 4 of the 16 pictures displayed a 30ms difference. I would consider 1080p “standard” mode to have a 50ms(or 3 frames) of input lag, which is actually about average for an HDTV that doesn’t offer a game mode.
The first picture shows the worst result I received - 40ms. It was the only picture showing that high of a delay out of 21 that I took, which leads me to believe that it may have been a fluke. The next picture shows the average - roughly 20ms of lag. The next is the best result - 10ms. It didn’t show up very often, but I am including it so you can come to your own conclusion. I would say that game mode at 1080p provides 16-34ms (or 1-2 frames) of input lag, which is very good for an HDTV.
The first picture shows the worst result. The numbers are in transition and I can’t say for certain what they are, but I would peg it at 30ms. Of the 78 pictures I took, only 3 others showed a delay as high as 30ms. Fluke/camera malfunction imo The second shows the average - a speedy 20ms. Nearly every picture showed this result. The last of this set shows the best result, 10ms - this was as rare as the 30ms result. Considering the large quantity of pictures showing a 20ms difference, I would say that PC mode on HDMI2 has 16-20ms (or 1 frame) of input lag. Practically non-existant except to the most sensitive of people playing very time sensitive games.
Considering these numbers line up with tests performed on the A650 series, I think there is not any difference in input lag - if you can defeat the amp bug, of course! So I opted not to perform a test over the VGA port. But from my tests and other peoples’ tests on the A650, the input lag (ranging from lowest to highest) would be roughly:
VGA 1920x1080 - 0-8ms of input lag (based on tests performed on the A650)
HDMI2 “PC MODE” - 16ms of input lag
HDMI 1080p “Game Mode” - 16-34ms of input lag
HDMI 1080p - 50ms of input lag
Unfortunately I have not seen sufficient testing on interlaced sources, which is important for people who are playing older consoles that don’t offer progressive scan mode. I don’t have the means to test it with my PC, and testing it with console games alone is subject to “feel” and “opinion”, which are two things I wanted to keep out of this post that I consider factual.
well i got the VGA cable, couple of things to say here:
1st, my original xb360 setup was hooked up with component cables and it was set at 720p. now i noticed that when i hooked up the VGA cable, when i turned on my xbox 360 the picture looked different than before. not only was the picture quality down but the size of the screen was squared off, like pan & scan size, or whatever. so i immediately looked at the settings.
2nd, now unless i’m losing my mind, i could have sworn that a few days before when i went into the xb360 settings there was an option where i was able to switch or select from 480, 720, or 1080. i remember because i selected 720p.
now this time when i went to the settings/dispay menu i can’t find anything anywhere that gives me that same option. there are 3 settings “resolution, screen, and reference”.
under resolution option, it gives a whole list of like 10 different resolutions, but i don’t remember it being this way before. like i said, unless i’m losing my mind and my memory, i just remember a simple option of 480, 720, and 1080. i chose 1280x720, cuz i’m assuming that means 720p. is this correct?
under screen option, it gives option of screen size, i think. it seems to be already set depending on what i picked for resolution.
and last, the reference option. i have no idea what this is. it gives 3 options, “standard, intermediate, and expanded”. i chose expanded cuz it seemed to make the picture look better, at least that’s what it seemed like to me, although i’m not really sure about that.
could someone please help out and let me know what all the optimum settings should be set at, both on the xbox 360 and on the TV?
anyhow, the input lag problem is much, much better now. it’s like night and day difference. i mean, there is still a very slight input delay, but it’s much more playable for me now. before it was completely horrendous, now with the VGA cable it’s manageable .
the only negative thing is that there seems to be a lesser quality picture, even when i select the “1920x1080” resolution. i was under the assumption that the VGA cable would be at least as good as the component cable in terms of picture quality, but it doesn’t seem to be.
anyway, i’ll take the lesser picture quality for the improved input delay. much better, i can actually play sf iv and hd remix now. thanks fellas.
peace
Thanks for your reply, the TV is Pioneer PDP-506HDG / PDP-436HDG series. It will only go to 1080i max anyway.
I setup one of the TV outputs to HDMI, another for component. Each time I need to play PS1/2 games on the PS3, I have to setup the display (in the PS3), then switch to the component output on the TV. So I permanently have the PS3 using 2 outputs on the TV (HDMI and component), switching (and reconfiguring the PS3) as I switch between PS1/2 and PS3 games!
Any tips for setting up this TV? It has a PC port but I can’t get it to work with the third-party ‘Wii PS 3 VGA’ cable. It reads this signal is not supported. The TV does have ‘game’ mode, which I turn on and does make a difference.
I do have a PS2, but I should’ve keep the Trinitron!
I was moving some stuff around and decided to add some new information to my post regarding the LN46A630 TV. There is now a control comparing my 245BW monitor to a CRT to confirm what I believe is 0 input lag, and there is now a test comparing the 245BW and LN46A630 in PC mode, over the VGA port.
I’d also like to thank Cynn for posting about the input lag on his set, and I used what he posted as part of the e-mail I sent to Samsung regarding the issues i’m experiencing with my TV.
I hope my set is either defective or it’s a bug in the firmware. It’s a truly beautiful set, and I really don’t want to return it
Correct. The Xbox with a VGA cable formats things in PC mode. It also formats per pixel so if you choose 720p and your screen is bigger than 1280x720 then borders will appear. You need to set it the same as your screen.
Yeah it auto picks depending on if the res is 4:3, 16:9 or 16:10
Expanded means it sends PC level colors to the set. It’s an option made pretty much for VGA mode. PC and TV use different levels to measure color so unless you convert, it make come over as washed out and low contrast.
The image does not look worse because of the cable. VGA and component are pretty much interchangeable. What’s happening is, your TV naturally does a lot of stuff to the image to make it look good. When you go into VGA mode, a lot of this stuff is outright turned OFF. By turning off things like contrast and color boosters, you get less lag.
This is the trade off for those of us who want/need very little lag.
Glad to help man. The 650 has had a ton of firmware updates. I did read randomly someone saying their amp was stuck on the 630. It sure would explain a lot.
I had to use a spare PC monitor to configure the PS3 settings. My TV will only support up to 720p on the PC port. The resulting picture is darker and you’ll need to increase the brightness and contrast.
I don’t have Rock Band 2 and a wireless strat to test, so it was the old fashioned way of actually trying out a frame sensitive game, TK5DR.
I got Heihachi to perform 3x EWGFs combo - on the VERY FIRST attempt. And on a pad too. I got the OTGF on a second attempt. Movement overall is much more responsive and less jerky.
I know TK5DR was developed for 1080p but I’m pretty satisfied with 720p on PC port for now. My TV will only support 1080i, and comparing the two setup, 720p on PC Port ‘feels better’ than 1080i game mode. I’m now bought on using the PC port if available.
TK3 (PS1) on the PS3 with above setup was much improved, but still not as responsive as TK5DR.
I saw a few people posting about that but unfortunately I don’t really know how to determine if AMP is stuck on. With a source/connection that allows me to adjust the AMP setting, I can easily tell if it’s on high, but its effect is much more subtle on low or even medium. I’ll search around and see if I can find out more about it.
If Samsung can’t resolve the issue (firmware update/replacement), i’ll probably just return the set and wait for the 2009 models to come out. My old HDTV has less lag than the A630, and i’m very patient
Following Poonage’s advice, I’m attempting to discover a digital signage type monitor for HD Gaming. This is the model closest to the specs I want; since it is essentially a computer monitor, can I expect input lag to be minimal / non-existent if I use an HD source? Or is it still a toss-up?
So when I was out I saw this TV that I will be buying when I get back from my vacation.
It was a 42 inch 1080p Sharp HDTV. It said that it had 6 MS response time on a sticker right next to the TV. I don’t think it even has a game mode, I’m guessing it doesn’t need it. (didn’t see any stickers indicating so on the TV itself.)
I want to buy this baby, it’s a little over 700$. What do you guys think? Shit sound good?
Well Cynn looks like i’ve got to thank you again. Your post about the AMP bug sent me into another researching frenzy, and I found the post on the avs forum about it. With a bit of my own testing, I determined two things.
My set was suffering from the AMP bug, and it was messing with the results. Also, based on my new tests, there is no input lag difference between the A630 and A650!
I’ve updated my old post regarding the lag, but basically they are the same as yours, I just tested with different hardware :bgrin:
For your reference, I have put the old post in quotes which details the results I got when the amp bug was active. In this new post, I have taken steps to work around the bug!
