The New Akuma Match-up Thread *Recent Update*

Classic Fighting Games Ultra Street Fighter IV
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There are spacing options for Gouken that allow us to place a safe palm on block where punishing isn’t possible for opponents.

If the palm lands deep on you and you block it, hit confirm with a jab or two and go into lk tatsu > hp SRK or try an EX/jab SRK reversal. EX/jab SRK is safer as a regular SRK may not invoke a guaranteed knock-down which will cost Akuma a substantial amount of life when Gouken punishes in retaliation.

Alternatively, you can often grab. Again, spacing on blocked palms is not always consistent so there isn’t always going to be a guaranteed punish available to you.

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And what about some answers on my rose thing ?

Thx !

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I use Akuma and a bunch of my mates use Sagat. A couple of them are really good with him. Here’s what I’ve found:

The obvious response is going be hinge on Sagat’s insane power output combined with his stamina. Take these traits and apply them to Akuma who has extremely low health and stun and you have a match that requires Akuma to play very cautiously.

That doesn’t make it an easy win for Sagat, but it means any mistakes from Akuma will translate to HUGE penalties. A Sagat player with a solid command of his various kara options (shots, knee, TU) also detracts a lot from any breathing room Akuma manages to establish and allows Sagat to quickly close ground and launch into particularly fast (and damaging) offensives.

The problem for Sagat is that his fireball game loses its effectiveness against Akuma and I personally find that I am able to molest a lot of Sagat players’ spacing with well placed demon flips to get in their face. Akuma is also able to punish quite well (even without meter) which is something Sagat doesn’t take lightly.

Sagat can reactively punish teleports and as mentioned above any mistakes Akuma makes he tends to pay heavily for against Sagat. Sagat with two EX stocks is nerve wracking - particularly if they play a good offensive game.

I feel the match-up weighs in quite even to be honest. 5:5 in my personal opinion. Yes, Akuma has many versatile tools against Sagat, but a well disciplined Sagat who understands Akuma can really mind-fuck the Akuma player into exercising a lot of caution which tends to reduce Akuma’s over-eagerness to toss a risk in. Akuma can really put on an impressive and dominating show against Sagat in some cases but Sagat can very quickly turn the tide with the inevitable (and very usable) Ultra that Akuma provides Sagat with in the process. On the subject of tide turning, every capable Akuma player knows when that happens. We can make one glaring error and so much hard work can be lost to Sagat’s relentless response. Its like a gigantic banner held in front of us that screams “HAHA! You fucked up!” However, when we DON’T fuck up and things fall into place - it can be a very rewarding match because of both how tough a fight it is and also because we are aware of how well matched these two characters are. At least, that’s how I feel.

Outside of my personal experience and from what I’ve seen demonstrated from players who use Akuma far more effectively than me, I’d perhaps stretch this match to a 6:4 in Akuma’s favour - but even then I still feel these guys are quite well matched.

I find Akuma V Sagat matches to often be very tense due to the reasons I’ve outlined above and things really can go either way. Both have clear advantages over the other and both have clear disadvantages.

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Emblem hasnt been anything but civil and polite and brings good arguments to the mix. I dont get to play high experience sagats too offten and wouldnt mind hearing what he has to say.

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GATOR: I see your point of view but go back and read what I have said. What tier related stuff did I bring up first, that wasn’t brought up by someone else? I was flat out insulted by Bokkin. Am I expected to not defend myself?

I posed no tier list question in my first post.

I asked how is this match only 6/4 because I feel Sagat is outclassed and I gave a breif explanation as to why I feel this way.

Anyway about your post. Basically you are saying that Gouki DOES outclass Sagat in this match but since Sagat has tons of health that evens it up? I’m sorry, but I’m not convinced. Health alone doesn’t make a match-up near even. You need the options and tools for that. Sagat’s health is why this match isn’t a complete disaster I agree, but it doesn’t make it near even. Sagat having health doesn’t magically make his tools able to contend with Gouki’s on even footing. It just means he gets more chances to feel Gouki out.

Looking at it objectively it probably isn’t 7/3. But I think any less then 6/4 can’t be argued really.

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@sarda

its actually a really simple match. And she shouldn’t be outpoking you. As for fireballs, dont’ use them very often in the match. She’ll just absorb them if she is smart or maybe reflect every once in a while to keep it interesting.

Her anti-air sucks and so she is weak to cross-ups and especially cross-up tatsu. And you can trip her off a tatsu which always is a good advantage for a match-up to have. And her shamwow is a decent move but if you are already not throwing fb very much anyway and not being stupid and using hk tatsu or something then she is only going to be able to use it to hit you through dropped strings, in a combo, or as a guess on a poke or something. Which just means you cross EVEN MORE if you are worried about it since it doesn’t auto-correct all that great. And if its blocked you get a punish.

I already mentioned honestly all there is to the match-up back in the other thread you guys are takin your question from. There really isn’t much to it other than what i mentioned. If the person uses the same block string into her fist special thing then you can mash srk to hit it a few times. Her fb’s suck ass… don’t worry at all about them. The EX is the only one worth a damn.

For her pokes you can get her into playing footsies and then quickly going to the air which will screw her up because she doesn’t have a good reactionary AA even for normal jump-ins since she gets punished so hard for a missed air throw… which cuts down the likelihood of it being used at all.

Use c.mp for some easy frame traps. And on the reverse if you see her get you in a block string you can teleport out for free… COMPLETELY for free. She doesn’t have a way to catch teleporters except in special situations. And you can demon flip off your own block strings without a lot of worry.

Its really not that hard to put rose on the ground, her there, and deflower her… hehe… sorry… had to.

without a decent wake-up option your constantly get to do whatever you want on her and since you can tatsu trip her you have tones of options to put her there. Just remember that she CAN duck your hk and punish so don’t use it too often as your poke of choice against her. Use your c.mp and c.mk a lot more. But… you’ll be in the air a lot anyway.

do you have a very specific issue against her with a certain poke in a certain situation or something you want addressed?

edit: @ emblem - I never said you did anything wrong. You didn’t. It seems I must have accidentally deleted the first part of my comment where I had written something along the line of “I’m sorry that the response to your comment was harsh.” or maybe it was part of a comment i decided not to bother finish posting… either way. The fact is you mentioned a tier related number system and then didn’t ask a question. You gave a statement (semantics… I know…) I’m not even saying thats how I felt though. I honestly don’t care and if anything assumed it was humored abrasiveness. I’m just saying how you came off.

As for dealing with HK… your apparent question i think?.. I gave a few options sagat has. And its not even a + frame poke… so you have an option to do anything you want. The only way you’ll be outpoked is if the akuma uses something faster than you… which is a crap shoot. And jumping back has no downside to it really as long as your not already cornered.

I think you underestimate the lack of health of akuma or the amount of health of sagat. I’m saying that the health is the big turning point but its not like sagat has nothing at his disposal. Sagat has perfectly fine pokes for the match-up that don’t get outclassed. The only place where he is honestly outclassed is on wake-up. And thats just a guessing game where akuma has a large advantage. Everything else… damage, health, pokes, chip damage, fb, zoning, etc… is either even very little in akuma’s favor or highly in sagat’s.

I say 5.5/4.5 between great players… but I already agreed its higher… 6/4 maybe even 6.5/3.5… for NON-great players. Never played you, haven’t live in jersey since I was like 7, and don’t even own a PS3 so I’ll probably never play you even on shitty online to judge how good or bad you are but I assume you aren’t playing at a mago lvl or a great japanese player lvl. Sagat has the tools to hang and the health to make up for whatever other problems he has regardless of player skill lvls though. Its just weird to see any character with any advantage over sagat.

And I’ll even concede a 6/4 because a 5.5 and a 6 aren’t that different to me anyway… hell… since its not a very braod ranging number system my 6 for all we know is the equivalent of your 7. who knows…

post specific advantages that you think gouki has over sagat and I can respond specifically to each if I know of a counter to it, if you are being silly, or if sagat is gettign fucked by it for a reason.

P.S - I’m saying this not off my own opinion on how I play either. If I went by that I’d say it was about 7-3 akuma because I am extremely consistent with the loop and most players have a hard time adjusting to playing against akuma without a lot of prior practice dealing with his mix-ups. In that case the only way I lose is if I mess up. But I KNOW there are sagat players that dont’ get fucked up consistently by oki looping. And I’m SURE if I WANTED I could argue for a 4/6 with sagat being advantaged…lol. ARGUING somethign doesn’t mean being right. So of course ppl can argue on less than a 6/4. But please… specific questions if you can as opposed to broad comments.

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This is a mach-up thread not a tier listing thread…emblem this is the second/third time you’ve tried to incite a discussion about whether or not akuma has an advantage on sagat (its getting old)…do you just want people to agree with you repeatedly…what is it?..if akuma has the advantage what does it matter… and why are we discussing it here? Sagat needs a bad match-up if it’s akuma then it sounds good to me. Your defense of my sagat advntages is weak…kara HK knee does catch wake up back PPP teleport you just have to have good reaction time…your medium range zoning game beats akuma’s because red fb has so much start up/recovery you can jump and beast on that. HK kara TS allows you to get in this ranges quickly, and kara ex TU allows you to clean beat air fb’s while at the same time a way into ultra…at anytime you can combo a hit confirm into ex TU and into ultra…if we’re taking ease of use out of the question then sagat has some incredibly hard shit to do that we should put on the table.

edit: this is why it’s not 7-3 nor 6-4 [media=youtube]aWXFwu6YxRM[/media] watch bonchan vs momochi (quite possibly the best akuma vs clearly not the best sagat, I.E. Mago) it’s a tight matchbut the characters don’t really come into play…it’s the people playing them.

Back to match-ups…

Rufus: Is this match like chun and nothing but runaway until a knockdown? I see no ways to get in and jumping is straight out of the question. HK whiffs second hit on crouching which leads to cLP->ex GT and great dmg+knockdown. Right now far sHP and far sMK are my distance poke just to keep rufus at dP-able range if he jumps.

right now these are my person worst match-ups…I’ve been going through cycles and landed back on Blanka and Rufus…I had to play 3 Blankas at NCR and the 3rd got me.

Blanka: What pokes are best against him? Whats the best way to punish ex rainbowroll out of the corner? Also point blank what’s the best way to punish coward crouch?

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Bokkin, thanks for the answers.

I understand what you said but it’s not what happens in my matches and i can’t adjust it to be done right. I think online lag also fucks me up.

Usually, when I trip her, the guy usually goes for wake up backdashes and I can’t do shit against that. I was wonder what could i do against his backdashes.

Also, when he is close, he outpokes me and, a lot of time, when he connects he go for big combos with fadc. And he hardly ever miss her combos.

The thing is, he usually runs away and when i get near i am outpoked. When i can trip her he grabs me out of dive kicks e backdashes out of palm whiffs. :confused:

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if your close, your able to punish it using low lp,lk tatsu HP SRK

its similar to a lariat on block…not rly sure of the frames but ive done that soo many times to ppl when i block it and im close to them

could use some testing though

oh Bokkin there was a tournament last month near me where i had to play a blanka player, it was on a live stream and commentated by justin wong

i hope it helps some way

http://www.frame-advantage.com/beta/street-fighter-4/85-new-castle-fight-night-iii/703-nica-ko-akuma-vs-grapes-blanka

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Bokkin: Kara MK knee seems to do a better job of catching tele not the HK version. Don’t ask me why. Probably because MK knee has a hitbox as it comes down. As far as the match-up ratio is concerned it seems to be a matter of perception. If you go back and read the stuff that was said we all pretty much said the same stuff. Sagat has health and some answers here and there to Gouki’s stuff, Gouki has lots of options, wake-up nonsense and very damaging combos.

I watched the match but I actually think tournament matches don’t represent Gouki’s full potential. I feel like in tournies Gouki’s won’t run his game with mix-ups as much out of fear of catching a random TU. Essentially they neuter their potential because they don’t wanna get knocked out of the tourney on some bullshit.

Good fight all the same.

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My take on Akuma/Sagat matchup ratio - It’s 6/4 Akuma’s favor. While Sagat does have the damage output and stamina, he is still limited in this fight and he still must risk himself to escape Akuma pressure. In single elim such a risk can win it for you, hence why you see Momochi losing to Bonchan. However in a set of 2/3 or 3/5 or better those risks will get read, and you will simply lose.

Here’s Eita making the matchup look to be in akuma’s favor - [media=youtube]iIhR7QwlL8o[/media]

Wow, Justin really doesn’t understand the specifics of that matchup.

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bokkin? I thought I was the one answer your question. O well…lol. If he is backdashing on wake-up you can punish that shit all day with your ultra. Ultra kills backdash spam. Another option is to jump a tad later for a normal jump-in and connect right AFTER the backdash. And yet ANOTHER option is to just simply throw a shaku for chip. And ANOTHER option is to mk/hk demon flip instead of lk and land on the other side of her for a combo chance. And then you have one of my favorite for backdash spam… simply doing a mk demon flip palm and the moment you land (or option selected…) you do a lp SRK FADC red FB. Hell… you can even just empty palm trip her. That will teach them that backdashing isn’t free.

Sounds like you are maybe being too repetitive with what you are doing or that you are going for the cross-up tatsu too much. Backdash really isn’t a game changing move and can generally be dealt with a number of either guaranteed or semi guaranteed ways. The simplest answer for you is to just empty palm sweep… sets her RIGHT back into your oki game. The option select lp srk is more if you really KNOW the backdash is coming or hell… even if you know a throw is coming.

lag online even in the best matches can make some bit of a difference. But obviously its best to try your best to adjust or otherwise there is no point to playing online (and with online competition what it is I might argue that ANYWAY…).

As for the pokes… she has good pokes… but you shouldn’t be consistently beat by them. Footsies isn’t something I can directly help you with though other than saying to just “get better.” Learn your optimum range better… focus appropriately… jump in on her expecially using cross-up tatsu from ambiguous distances… and… block…lol. She has nothing that makes her deadly on block. Her throw game is … decent… but its usually obvious when she is going to throw. And I already mentioned some options on block… and then of course there is even the super simple “teleport once she starts a block string” because like I said… she really can’t punish you for it very well.

As for rufus. You do have to play rather safe when rufus has meter. With no meter the advantage is yours. Dive kick spam is beaten by teleports, srk, and sometimes even c.lp spamming (don’t recommend it though). Without meter there will be a lot of rufus jumping a fireball and you dashing forward and anti-airing when rufus thought he could land safely out of range. Rufus has issues before he gets his meter. And on wake-up he just gets WORKED on without meter. And then once he DOES have meter its usually not TOO hard to relieve him of it if you can get a knockdown since cross-tatsu will get him to EX the wrong way which then leads many times for a chance to you to do a single far HK loop (just meaning hk, s.lp, sweep) that leads to ANOTHER knockdown and a chance to relieve him of more meter if he has it.

Yes… there will be a lot of backing up at times… especially if he has the dreaded 3 bars of meter… but the match-up definitely shouldn’t be ALL backing up. c.mk is still a great poke. At HK range you can flash your focus generaly pretty safe and if he c.hp pokes you will focusing you either get a nice crumple or at the very least a rushdown chance. And demon flip options work fine on him up close… just don’t be demon flipping from far away as that is easy j.hk, EX snake bait. And you still can use hk… its just not free like it is on bigger guys. Just get a feeling if they are turtle rufus’s and if they are THEN remove hk frmo your options. But turtle rufus shouldn’t be a problem as you get to cross and demon flip them all day…while laughing at whatever the hell he’s doing with his hands while crouching. I swear it looks like he wants to eat you or something…

there is nothing special about rufus unless he has meter… so just do your best to bait him to waste it and if he tries to do things to build it like snake strike or nado then punish him with your hk (works great as a punish for things that look like they should have been out of range… like if he nados through a fb). More specifics to the question about rufus leads to more specific answer? lol

and blanka you have to poke with c.mk and c.mp. If I can I choose c.mp because sometimes he can ball over the c.mk… but not the c.mp. Although I usually just play a game of bait a the slide/ball for the most part in the match-up as long as I possibly can. I still don’t know why ppl… even good players sometimes… assume that a backwards jump means a free charged attack.

as for the coward… the best punishes are c.mk into FADC combo (don’t try to tatsu in the fadc combo unless you used hk or c.hp to stand him up). ultra (lol…). 1 bar you can do c.mk EX tatsu (it does GREAT damage actually…288 or 286… can’t remember). Then there is the simply lazy no metered SRK or trip if you want to start your oki game. In short… the only moves that hit him out of it are c.kick moves and srk… so base what you do off that knowledge.

EX sushi… if you mean as an escape… if you can get close enough the best choice is to use a HP started combo. Otherwise you usually get either nothing… a chance to ultra him (such as if he does it when you cross tatsu and it didn’t auto-correct) or a sweep if you can get to sweep range in time.

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wow…you played a decent spacing game but I’m talking pokes and the crazy turtlyness that blanka can do…you missed alot of free demon on ball block both rainbowroll block and ex/non ex hori ball. Once you have demon it limits blankas moves insanely but I’m talking about the point in game before that. Also…man you can’t let anyone jump at you like that so much for free…dP or at least cHP that shit. I want to know what kind of turtle game this is…I think blanka can turtle hard I want to know whats a good game plan in the corner. (how to stop ex rainbowroll from him escaping)

Edit to Gator…Demoning backdash is some yomi random shit I’m talking about solid strategies…you don’t know when she’s gonna backdash right now I’m using the jab->sweep opselect on that and it works pretty well when the opponent doesn’t have meter. I’m more talking about blanka than chun…I do fine against her and when it comes to rufus I guess I’m not teleporting enough. Also when it comes to rufus he is easily looped don’t count that out it’s just messing it up leads to hurt. With rufus’s galactic is dP’ing the only way to stuff it or is there a poke because I keep trying to sHK it it and it either trades or looses. I guess this is another chun like turtle match until you get a knockdown. Walking Blanka down is what I need to work on. It’s just that Up ball is beaset on wake up as is electricity which totally denies any cross up factor and neutralizes all but the bait aspects of vortex.

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the second half of my above post was to you bokkin… And also… a good way to KEEP him in the corner if you think he’ll be sushi rolling is to simply safe jump with d.mk. In the corner you ger a punish of your choice on blocked rolls. But seriously… just play bait n keep away as long as you can to try and gain a life lead to work with. And sweep is still a deadly poke if you can use your oki game on blanka well enough to stress him out.

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Wow Gator, I’m sorry. I just mistyped the nick.
Thanks a lot for your answers man, ! I’m gonna put them to the test !

Cya !

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lol…no worries.

ohh… and that nica KO stream vid… that … is not really how blanka should be played against imo.

1st… don’t focus unless blanka is moving forward. Too easy to get balled otherwise on reaction.

2nd… he was doing nothing after his trips. At the very least a tiger back fireball for some chip should have been used. But he could have safe jumped, crossed up, demon flipped… blanka is annoying but by no means does he shut DOWN your unteachable wake-up options.

3rd… That whiffed EX SRK. First there shouldn’t have been an EX used on it. Second… there was no reason for it. You had your ultra and could have should have waited on him. And next time he tries to cross up ball you… just focus dash ultra. Takes all the guessing out of it.

4th…why did you use a standing lp on blanka? of course it whiffed…lol. You can’t even come CLOSE to looping him. Just avoid standing lp at all in the match-up.

5th… jump back tiger fb more. You cover your landing from slides, lp rolls, and land fast enough to even SRK balls. Its good for baiting.

6th… no ultra punish… no c.hp. But that was already known i assume

7th… 2 ex fb used in the match is 2 too many.

8th… If your not sure of your range when he’s using electricity… just HP SRK. Otherwise you can trip if far away or c.mk if at med range away.

9th… you’ve GOT to remember to hold your focus long enough to get the crumple. lost a tone of damage from that.

10th. little more c.mp poking. c.lp has a tendancy to not react far enough unless he’s right on top of you.

11th. way too much hk as a poke…

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Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

SF3LP, Ex-Hado fadc doesn’t make sense.

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at the time of the video and the tournament i still wasnt as confident in the match up as i am now

it took me about a week or so to finally get into the flow of playing blanka properly, not to mention i didnt do well in that tournament (waited the whole day for that one match) plus at the time i didnt have as much experience vs an average blanka being that i played only scrubs who mash on electricity and jumps all the time online

i can say right now though that i dont play like that vs blanka anymore but the good thing is that it shows what i missed and couldve done properly the next time

that whiffed EX SRK was supposed to be a backwards teleport, idk how the hell that happened now that i look at it lol all the info posted above though really should be compiled into the blanka match up

all this good stuff will make life much easier if it can be compiled onto the first page for easy reference :sad: appreciate the insight as well

heres another match thats bad for me but was also a while ago

http://www.frame-advantage.com/beta/street-fighter-4/67-battlefield-arcadia-6/534-ds-boxer-vs-nica-ko-akuma

could appreciate some stuff here too :tup:

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That vid is actually Justin vs Aquasilk.

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hmm thats wierd as hell

heres another link

[media=youtube]HBFlXT6_O-w[/media]

i dropped a lot of things using a different stick since battlefield arcadia tournaments are on 360, i play on ps3