Have you tried doing hit confirms into uppercut against the focus?
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What I do to get the timing down… is I whiff the palm, and I wait at the instant I think an uppercut would hit me (a 3 frame uppercut) and then I tap LK LP while crouching. Because grabs are also 3 frames, this would cause a grab break and you shouldn’t see a crLK. Dunno how other people would explain it, but that’s what I do.
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If you’re getting hit by Ryu’s focus attack, you should challenge him with your own. Akuma’s focus attack is much better, and if you space it right you should be able to release it as he’s charging, dash back, and still have Ryu’s focus attack whiff. Also if you think he’s a focus happy player you can mix it up with EX air fireball, which can possibly even lead to a sweep or a free combo.
When you say your “vortex attempts”, you’re not just referring to crossup hurricane kick, are you? You might need to go into more detail on this. No mixup is without fail from Ryu’s uppercut, as far as I can tell. Safest things are palm whiff into option select crouching grab break, crossup tatsu is hard to beat but it can be autocorrect DP’ed…
No, I’m not refering to x-up tatsus.
I was getting the time wrong on all my mixup options againts his Ryu yesterday.
When I tried cross up tatsu, he blocked.
Palm wiff into throw ? I was getting thrown.
Flip Throw ? I was doing it so late he could walk under and punish with a combo or, sometimes, he just jab srk xx ultra’d me.
Stuff like that.
Also, doing any kind of sweeps into srk is shit against him. He releases the focus mad perfect and hit me before my srk could even come out. And i was canceling really fast.
Thanks for the back dash info, i knew that but i wasnt doing that. He’s my friend and i asked for some advice against his focus and he said the same thing ‘Bait my focus, focus me than backdash and punish my wiffed focus.’ . I gotta try that.
Thanks !
You can’t cancel c.rh with srk…
You CAN cancel c.rh with RD though.
Oh yes also another thing I forgot to mention is that Ryu’s focus attack will almost never hit you if he charges it all the way as you charge it, as long as you space it right. I’ve gotten so many level 3 focuses on Ryu players that don’t understand this.
As for your other troubles, it sounds like you were just having execution issues, but I can’t really say I know for sure without seeing a video or something.
Ah yes, tried again today and you eat ball. Damn, I wanted that to work. Blankas are fun to play but seem to tear me apart, you basically can’t safely fireball which sort of lets him dictate the terms of the match
It’s pretty obvious i cant cancel a cr.rh into an srk. It was like 6 am and i was sleepy as hell. I was refering into canceling the cr.mk into srk. He’ll focus me everytime.
But the cr.rh into RD worked several times against him.
I think my results will get a lot better if i start to mess around with the backdash after the focus, i’ll have to try this but, to be honest, he’s a really good player so its not like our next matches will be the same thing hehe. But i’ll try that out.
And yeah, i need to record some of my matches but i dont have the gear to do so.
whats the basic gameplan when playing vs C.Viper
yesterday i played against Wolfkrone (Top 16) at Seasons Beatings and he just got in on me too often for me to figure out the match up properly
i realized that jumping back fireball doesnt work well in this match up due to her seismo and teleporting a lot is another bad thing because of her EX burning knuckle
however on the bright side lil things like dive kick beating out her AA burning knuckle works a lot, low forward under her flame kicks work as long as shes not in your face and doing it but cr.hp takes that out most of the time, and cross up tatsu works wonders here, but again it was hard to get the stun due to a good viper being so fiesty…is there anything else to this match up that i should know?
Note: i didnt have time to apply most of this stuff i mentioned in our set so i decided to put down what i did wrong and couldve done to help myself as well but it could be generalized for all akumas as well
so yea anything else vs viper?
Neutral jump fierce beats much of Viper’s air game.
Safe jump shenanigans on her wake up since her burning knuckle is 5 frames.
@ sarda…
first… are you sure you mean mid-range? Mid-range is like… fireball range. I can imagine what you mean though… but still. Anyway… for the focuses… first off learn to buffer your demon if someone is getting focus happy. unless they already were dashing from the focus before you input the demon you will land it.
If they are blocking your cross-up tatsu every time there are only two possible answers: 1. You are spacing it wrong and you are jumping at cross-up range so its no longer ambiguous at which point you might as well just do a normal cross-up really. 2. You are cross-ing up every time and aren’t mixing in safe jumps, normal jumpins, demon throws, etc enough. They aren’t reading the move but rather reading your repetition. There isn’t really way to react and block a cross-up tatsu every time. Thats why the move is good. Therefore its you and you need to work on doing your cross-up tatsu at the right timing.
Also… if you mean c.mk srk… then there isn’t a legitimate way he can react in the manner you are saying unless you are mad slow. Unless you are attacking while he is ALREADY focusing. which is demon a demon cancel becomes very useful. Hell… the moment I see an opponent start getting focus happy its great… free demon off EVERYTHING and ANYTHING. C.mk FB is a different story though as FB doesn’t give him invincible frames at lal which means they trade and can still hit you since their move crumples. The SRK is invinsible on start-up so this is you throwing a c.mk INTO an already charging focus or just being slow.
Also… if he doesn’t tend to release early you can quick focus backdash into an ultra if he releases or dashes… or just wait and punish if he doesn’t.
If he is grabbing you consistently off empty demon flips then he probably is mashing out grab… which means try buffering a demon sometime and see if it catches. Catch that once or twice and he won’t be as keen to throw so quick and you’ll have a better chance of mixing up with empty palms. Also… option select throw can be thrown if they time it a bit later than your throw. He probably wasn’t doing it on purpose though so if the issue is that EVERY time the option select is being thrown… just go for a normal throw or a option select SRK (srk>throws). you’d be surprised how often it works on ppl with a pulse.
P.S- Don’t listen to everything you hear about “auto-correct” . Its not god.
@ SF3LP … yea… vipers are getting better and better and more annoying and more annoying. She fucking OWN the air for the most part. As for neutral jump hp… that only works so many times before the viper starts to flame kick earlier and hit you out of it… depending on when you are doing it… but its still your best anti-air option and is important to know.
Few things thought :
Tiger Air FB, especially EX, works great at mid range to allow you to get some pressure on her. She is forced to block and it gives you a nice chance to jump in (probably not the best option until they are conditioned for the other two), cross tatsu (against a good viper you almost need to be landing cross-tatsu spacing consistently to win), and safe jumps.
opinion…Don’t waste your EX meter on normal EX moves in this match-up (other than sometimes using EX air FB). Adding 30-40 damage from an EX tatsu or an EX fireball is pointless and because she is always on the move as opposed to camping ex demon flip isn’t that useful. Save the meter instead to turn simple strings into higher damage/stun combos and knockdowns. And its important to be able to every once in a while opt for a SRK instead of a throw when normally you’d throw to have hopefully baited an option select. But with her mad high damage you don’t want to risk that without having the meter to safe it.
Also… get knockdown WHENEVER you can. You can tatsu sweep her… use it if you don’t already.
Jump back fireball actually works okay in the match, just not as you normally would use it. It works as an anti-air of sorts… as well as a lock down when trying to get a little distance. just don’t go around randomly throwing it out at the top of your jumps… TIGER TIGER TIGER.
Of course watch out for her EX moves on wake-up due to invincible frames and what not. Another reason why the cross-tatsu is so important in the match.
c.mk demon still works on her flames… but be wary.
if you see flames soon enough… focus. If it crossed back dash (well… AWAY dash…lol) if it didn’t then free combo. But don’t be just sitting there waiting for her flame kicks to have a chance of crossing you or being on your head.
lots and lots of backdashing…lol. Those block strings of hers can be kinda annoying.
Thx for the reply Gator.
Really appreciated.
yea thats pretty much the game plan for me now on viper lol at least i have a typed reference to look at in case i forget :tup:
i saw tokido play in a TRF match against a viper who did what Wolfkrone (viper player that i played) did, everytime i would do a block string of cr.lp x2 and go for a grab, he would do a lk flame kick to beat it and i couldnt think at that time to find out how to beat it
then i saw tokido in the same exact situation but when he did his cr.lp x2 he would do cr.mp and 3 things happened every time or couldve happened, first any normal was stuffed in case of tech throwing, second viper would block, third viper would do her flame kick but then tokido would see it then do mp SRK FADC shaku which rly set him up for the next big thing
so just throwing it out there for a lil trick tokido did
heres the vid
[media=youtube]_psPAeXQX60[/media]
Shit. Very nice. I saw your request above for Viper options. Here are my Viper findings:
http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7871209&postcount=110
Hopefully you can find something in there. Viper can be tricky and is a match that requires you to be very alert. In addition to what I’ve mentioned above, I find that I’ve been landing a lot of c.lp, c.lp, c.lp hit-confirms into lk tatsu > hp srk against Viper. I’ve worked on my hit-confirm game and this has also started netting me good damage against her.
I have a short question concerning Gouken: What is the most effective way to punish his Senkugoshoha (forward rush punch) on block? I still haven’t found a move to punish it consistently.
Haven’t seen this one yet, might be obvious (apologies if so)
You can often use screen scroll to cause a jumped fireball to hit… Imagine you are on the left of the screen opponent on the right, and you are located in the left half of the playfield. You fire a projectile, and opponenet jumps backwards. Normally they would clear it, but by walking towards them you prolong the fireball, it scrolls to the right along with the scene. Often that’s enough to make a hit
That’s so nice that i remember Daigo punishing a backwards jump following with a super.
Ouch.
How the hell is Gouki vs Sagat only 6/4 Gouki?
That’s impossible. Sagat is completely outclassed in any situation aside from maybe zoning where it’s probably equal. Sagat can get lucky TU’s into Ultra occasionally, but the inablity to deal with roundhouse which leads to 40% damage loops and knockdown that give Gouki huge momentum seals the deal imo.
7/3 Gouki’s favor imo.
Yeah, I said it.
Doing the loop isn’t easy at all, doing TU fadc f.rh ultra is piss easy and takes away 50-70% of akuma’s health.
No way it’s 7-3…that’s sagat v zangief
Ease of use is meaningless.
You think Magneto’s infinite in MvC2 is easy? Or what about CC combos in Alpha 2? Or Yun’s Genei Jin combos? Dust loops with Sol?
Sorry, but that’s no argument. You are going to need to bring a little more to the table.
If it can be done, people WILL master it.
Also Sagat vs Gief isn’t 7/3. Gief has a hard time getting in but Tiger shots can be hit with ex flat on reaction if you are good enough and once Gief is in holy shit Sagat is in for a rough ride, but that’s not what we are discussing.
Sounds like you need to brush up on the Sagat a lil, and the matchups?