Does Zangief have a guaranteed SPD if he blocks Akuma’s demon flip kick?
demon flip on block… no. You can either jump (obvious miss) or you can throw out some c.lp jabs for a block string because the stun is high enough.
As for DIVE kick though… You can jump on block and be safe but you cannot start a block string.
But since you’ll PROBABLY be using (and were talking about) demon flip kick… the answer is no, you should be fine. Only reason he hit you was 1. You tried to do something really slow for your next hit (such as HP) which is another reason c.lp, cl.HP is a better hit confirm than just HP. or 2. You just pressed your c.lp too slowly.
Demon flip kick is free pressure as long as you hit. The problem is that online a little lag spike is going to favor his SPD mashing over your well timed lp unless you are mashing lp as well… which makes it hard to combo afterwards if you mash. And mashing isn’t a good option anyway because he’ll usually just end up lp spd-ing you the moment your jab mashing pushes you out of jab range.
of course if your geif opponent is mashing spd in strings and you know this isn’t thoughtfully done but rather ryu status then just neutral jump and you’ll get a free combo.
as for balrog help:
the only reason why you don’t see japanese players punish the overhead of rog all the time is because they don’t USE it that often unlesss they really think it will work… none of that from the other side of the screen ex bullshit you see online…lol. And if the rog is using overhead he probably is down in the match which means the other guy doesn’t want to get unlucky and somehow get nailed with an EX headbutt or jab into ultra.
c.mk, srk is what you should be using to counterhit EX moves… or plain old HP SRK if you see it fast enough. HP SRK is easier but c.mk first gives you more time and makes sure you don’t accidentally throw it out and get punished. If you are hard kicking and not getting your combos to land very much start buffering in a demon (if you can ALWAYS buffer a demon obviously thats best but I’m being more realistic here) so that if he uses TAP or an EX to try and get you through the hk you can throw out the demon and punish.
learn to buffer after your hk. Especially when pressured in the corner or something. That way if he focuses, taps, ex, or trys to punish the sweep he’ll take a demon to the face. Obviously its harder said than done to be consistent with it but its something to strive for in the match-up.
DON’T learn to focus his dashes. While it works its safer to use other options because his straight is fast as hell and armor breaks. And if he catches you focusing while charging a TAP your screwed.
but seriously I just looked at the match-up info and its pretty weak right now if just looking at the front page.
lol yea thats why i asked here myself since i saw that too lol
i appreciate the info you guys provided…i just needed somethin like this to keep myself reminded of what i can do in this match up
and also someone will need to update that first balrog post cuz as Gator said it really is weak right now
dthboi is working on it. And I don’t expect anymore than he is currently doing honestly since SF4 is a pastime for most (funny i have to even SAY most…lol…) and doesn’t deserve too much attention to the point other things take the hit. I mean… I know just from this and the other thread I must have about 30 posts or something and the majority of my posts are meaty jump-ins…lol.
That being said I was looking at the sim stuff and some of the others and they are just soooo tiny. I can’t do it now because I’m going on my morning run but I’ll try and post some stuff up for sim and some of the other less loved characters after I get back from my basketball practice this afternoon.
If anyone has a specific character that they want something to be talked about plz tell because I’ll probably be taking a few days off from even touching these boards cuz I have a tournement (basketball… not SF4…lol) over the weekend and then have a very stressful week ahead.
note: or maybe a seperate “large thread” type post should be made for each character so that the first page of this thread doesn’t get to be a billion pages long… just a thought… either way. god its cold…
Yeah hopefully dthboi will transfer as much information from the old thread as he can, wanna get that deleted and get this one on track…
…towards the end of the last thread we started picking a character with high demand for info and throwing ideas and tips around…I liked that system, lets us get in detail on a character, as well as allowing for easy updates to the front page as we move along…
$0.02
Regarding the matchup with Blanka, I’ve been able to consistently demon flip kick him out of electricity on wakeup. It seems to be successful 4 out of 5 times. Am I just getting really lucky or should that be changed?
don’t have time for more cuz I forgot I had a party tonight but… here is some sim stuff I very quickly wrote down. srry its not more specific but it could/would have gotten pretty long winded if I started to go into the option given super specific situations… its already too long fora quick read…
Sim:
Sim needs you to jump to really be effective and he wants you to block low and throw out fireballs mindlessly. Therefore you shouldnt be jumping in if you dont have to. Akuma is able to quickly and easily turn a normal jump into a counterpoke via his divekick which helps him get in a bit safer than attempting to just jump or demon flip. Akuma also has EX demon flip which is fast enough at mid-range to get in without the sim being able to jump lp on reaction and can also be used as in a shoto FB war to counter a fireball by sim.
Another thing to learn for this match-up is that its okay to jump in with an air-fireball and that HK and focusing are your friend. Air-fireball, as long as its not timed to LAND on his fireball, is a great way for akuma to put enough pressure on sim to allow for you to get near him safely. You just shouldnt overuse it while at range or on wake-up because at range he can punish you with a teleport combo if he is fast or many times at least with his HP. HK is a great way to bait a poke to demon counter, keep pressure NEAR him (especially if hes trying to back away), or to try and reach a teleport on wake-up. The problem is that sim can duck the second hit so its not an actual great poke while already applying pressure if the opponent tends to low block (most). And focusing is extremely helpful while at range. While you can focus to attempt to move in on him I wouldnt recommend using it to advance unless you are focusing a j.HP and then dashing. Normally the best option is to focus backdash. By doing this you are building your meter and enticing the sim to come to you something you WANT if you are ready for it. The more important part is the meter though. While you generally dont get chances against sim to use your ultra, there are two very important uses: 1. Focus crumple getting the huge damage and an untechable knockdown is very helpful against sim. 2. Punishing a j.hp.
apply pressure and try to go for some throws, demon flips, and broken string. Now, a good sim is probably going to tech a lot, but mixed with broken strings (his close range pokes are not very good) and youll be keeping him honest. And because of this Id say this is one of the few matches where I think walk-up grabs REALLY work over time on wake-up. Obviously you cant afford to drop combos but you can apply constant pressure on resets with lk demon flip. After a HP reset demon flip forces a sim to try and either back+mp or block and usually he will block. Start landing a few demon throws or option selects after the flip and youll have an actual rushdown going. If you can saving up for FADC or even a super at time is a great option on sim. FADC are obvious in their usefulness while the super is 330 damage that isnt too hard to land once you get sim blocking and waiting for something to tech. Against sim you need to take damage wherever you can get it.
Dont be afraid to let the clock dwindle down to zero: Defense is many times the best offense against sim once you have a life lead. Dont turn off the rushdown, but if he gets out on you and you have a nice life lead its probably better to keep it safe. Dont throw out a lot of fireball to counter his fireballs. He will be looking for that so he can teleport combo you. As for the actual teleport combo, the safest and most effective way to deal with this is to just mash out (if you arent sure obvious NOT mashing is still easy and better…) lp. Because it teleports him at a funny angle right behind you and on top of you, unless you are WAITING for it, you arent going to be able to c.hp on reaction and the teleport will many times mess up the srk motion. Just spamming lp once you see him teleport will let you auto correct your direction before he can do anything saving you from damage as well as making him float slowly near you off what constitutes a reset. Meaning its a good way to help you get near him again. For teleports that are not right behind you the best option tends to be a lp srk. Dont be afraid of getting backed into a corner. It WILL happen once you play defensive because you are going to want to be backing up slowly to stay out of j.hp range (if only in c.hp range you can just simply block low and be fine). While playing defensive watch out for your red fireballs. While they are good at blowing through his fireball set-ups and can let you move forwards a little bit to get away from the corner, if sim sees them fast enough he can cause you problems with his teleport.
Counterpoking is important for the match-up so Ill just a list a few important counter pokes other than the teleport poke already mentioned:
-c.mp to counter his c.hp/hp
-lp srk to counter poke j.hp
-trip to counter poke a whiffed hp/c.hp
-hk is a decent counterpoke/ultra bait for standing normals other than hp.
As for his ultra set-ups its NOT ALWAYS best to teleport out. Usually… yes. But its a matter of reading your opponent and whether they have super or not. Teleporting out should almost always net the sim at least an 80 damage poke, which is more damage than the 75 from ultra chip. If the set-up is NOT in the corner then the best option is going to be to teleport backwards.every time. But if you ARE in the corner then more reading of the opponent is necessary if they have super.
You need to know the difference between his j.hp range and his c.hp range. And just realize that this is one of the most OBVIOUS examples of akuma wanting and needing to mix up offense with defense to win a match in the game. And its very easy to go 2-0 one match and then 0-2 the next repeatedly. Don’t let yourself get frustrated or you’ll start to do unsafe things like overusing jump fireball or missing demon chances.
and @ incognegro… electricity is beaten on untechable knockdowns if done fast enough… and rather easily at that. But a well versed blanka will know this and be using up ball on wake-up for jump ins ANYWAY. Electricity is something only blankas use on wake-up often if A. they suck B. the opponent is stupid and keeps jumping in normally or C. they thought they saw a jump in but got tricked because they didn’t feel like using up ball… ???
and actually dive kick works really well against blanka too on untech knockdown…
and can bait out an up ball (what you actually have to worry about on wake-up) rather easily.
if i miss a demon after a blocked ball or EX ball
thats bad timing right? for some reason i keep missing it
yeah that used to happen to me too but now i can nail it pretty much 90% of the time.
i think you know you nailed him if your ultra goes off right when blanka is high up in the air rolling back from a blocked ball.
The easiest way i found to practice this is go to training mode and just record ball and ex ball on blanka and playback. Keep blocking those and practice the demon punish timing.
I’ve been playing a good Viper a lot lately. A few weeks ago I lost in a Ranbat competition to him and then got my revenge the following week and murdered him. We played again yesterday and the revenge was now his. During our second set we broke even. Vipers who understand Akuma are difficult. Some observations:
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Blocked up close thunderknuckles are very difficult to deal with. Reversal SRKs are possible, as are throws. Don’t get looped by these. (Knuckle followed by c.mk > knuckle > repeat) Teleport away if in doubt.
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c.mk under flame kicks can be effective. An example of this being done can be seen here:
[media=youtube]tFmpwLzHhUs[/media]
c.mk makes that shit whiff.
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Use teleport when you’re doubtful of flame kicks - this will be often. Vipers tend to get crazy with flame kicks as it can be a very odd move to accurately place to begin with in many situations. This works both for and against them and makes things even crazier for us.
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Watch her EX stocks. It is very risky placing a redball on her as she gets up from a knock-down as EX siesmic hammer will go through this and smash you. Instead opt for vortex wake nonsense.
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Get ready to tech when she performs a block string and fakes-out/cancels an empty siesmic hammer. She’ll walk up for a throw.
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Cross-up tatsu is effective
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Get her in the corner and beat her into submission. From what I’ve noticed, Viper doesn’t bode well when it comes to corner pressure.
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c.hp is very effective. Viper spends a lot of time in the air and needs to jump at you to perform a lot of her flame kick options. c.hp tends to slug her well - especially if she’s trying to place her self well to cross-up. The positioning required for ambiguous flame kick cross-ups (outside of a super jump) requires her to be right above you where the c.hp shines.
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Watch your demon flip dive kicks on wakeup - ESPECIALLY if she has Ultra! Dive kick will trade with her AA thunderknuckle if timed poorly! She remains grounded and you’re floating. Her Ultra connects. It hurts.
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Lastly, buffered Ultra Demon from c.mk is VERY effective against Viper. I land a LOT of Demons against this guy I play and he’s no slacker at all. Viper’s mix-up and crazy play-style often makes her ripe for an Ultra. Keep that shit buffered!
yea i figured it was my timing…it must be online cuz i practiced that before and i got it all the time
im a little confused on how to fight zangief on wakeup. when i divekick, it sometimes trades with lariat which is bad. Im not sure if its my spacing or what, but when i try in training mode. I can time the divekick to beat reversal lariat, but then if i do a non reversal lariat it will trade. ive seen in videos people do demon flip throw, so maybe thats the key. right now on his wakeup, i dont really have anything to do.
Any info would be appreciated.
u could train him to lariat and demon the recovery time, u could sweep the lariat, and u could always purposely whiff and fall short.
How to punish blocked blanka ball with reversal demon online
mash db to ub + mash lp lk hp
Thats not really what i meant. I mean after i sweep him or get an untechable knockdown, how should i approach putting pressure on him. If i try to dive kick, i often trade with his lariat, and im wondering if there is a better way to attack him off of an untechable knockdown.
^ Pressure him by teleporting back and fireballing, zone, etc… this is how to play against Zangief…
So dthboi, how far have you come with updating the data?
If it’s too much to handle by yourself don’t be afraid to ask for help.
Be careful though with the backstep roll, that has a little extra recovery in the air and it’s possible to demon under it before he lands… gotta wait just a hair there.
Blanka is becoming my favorite match-up.
I’m finding it pretty easy to teleport past his ultra and buffer in the demon too… basically teleport towards him when he starts it up and immediately demon him after teleport recovery.
It seems you can even grab him out of it when the glowing ball animation is still going if you demon from behind? Not sure if that was just lucky timing but it sure does wreak havoc.
It also looks to me like blanka has an unusually large back hitbox making cross-ups really easy to land. Maybe it’s the funny way his body leans forward?
Side note… it sure would be nice to have graphical representations of hitboxes for the various enemies, non-trivial to do though I suppose
I tried this in the arcade once and got laughed at, AKA it lost me the match.
Ok, so my training with Akuma is starting to show some results. I was a Ryu player (played like 2000 matches in my PS3, besides tournaments i traveled to and what not) and i swithed to Akuma.
I’m with like a thousand matches with Akuma and still training.
I started to win against some of the top brazilian players but its still kind of random. Some days i lose, some days i win and some days i just get RAPED.
So, to the questions…
Today I played against one of the top Sagats here in Brazil and probably against the best Ryu’s around here and somethings i noticed:
1; I couldn’t option select c.lk/throw. NEVER EVER. Everytime i went for a flip palm into option select i was grabbed out of my c.lk. What is wrong ? Am I doing it too early ? If i wait a little more what am i risking ? Cuz i’m just being thrown/srked every single time.
2; The Ryu crushed me today. Especially because he zoned the hell out of me and forced me to play Akuma as Ryu. I was forced to face his zoning (in which ryu excels Akuma) and when i was able to find a chance to get in i was Srked out of my bad timed vortex attempts.
Besides that, he kept Focusing the hell out of me at mid-range. I mean, i guess 80% of ALL the damage i took was from focus crumples at mid-range. Besides canceling a sweep into ultra, how can I deal with Ryu’s focuses at mid-range ? And I mean, well-timed focus.
I’d like some feedback.
Thx guys