Wanting to play the game the best in the world are playing and wanting to steal their strats are not at all the same thing. I’ll look at the console version as a fun side thing (623B hits mid!!) until I see a top-player exodus from the arcade version. I can’t really speak for the kugz, but…
I’m sure japanese Sol scrubs make mistakes top american Sol players don’t, so I guess that means america is better than japan after all.
Tier lists only hurt people who don’t know how to use them, like Thongboy.
‘If noone half-way around the world plays a game then I don’t want to.’
We have been playing. :o
discuss game (and boobs) dammit
Look guys, I got upset, but in the end, we’re all in the same boat here. sp00ky’s throwing out BnB’s, Orka’s posting up changes from around the web, that’s really all we’ve got right now. I understand what use a tier list would have, but at this point in time it just doesn’t have much worth, if any. I’m not going along the line of “TIER LISTS ARE STUPID, TIERS DONT EXIST, ITS IN THE EYE OF THE BEHOLDER YO,” none of that. Just stating it how it is for now. I don’t see much any reason for the Japanese to shun ver B as it’s a kin to what Slash did for #Reload, just not on such a grand scale really ;S.
I’m overly and absurdly ecstatic that there are many new people interested in the game, which is why I want you to fuck around with it and have fun, because that’s what those of us who have been playing the game ad-nauseum for two years have are doing now anyway.
Sorry for any drama.
;p
Well, I did ask about why Sion apparently sucks now in ver. B, but no one has answered just yet. 
Also, she has the second largest bust in the game… it’s not right for her to be a bad character! >:o
Since I don’t want to jump to conclusions, I’ll simply ask: What is the problem with finding the dominant strategies and tactics, and learning them? Should I be mashing buttons or going the wrong way with my basics? I’m sorry if you’re not a player who has experienced the highest levels of a game yet, but you cannot start from a random point and expect to get anywhere.
What Japan is doing in their arcade is absolutely critical to players who don’t like to stay stagnant. They have centers that clock hundreds of games in per week, and allow strategies and tactics to change. You playing with 3 friends will produce terrible results in regards to character understanding and advanced tactics. You cannot find out the bulk of what 3000+ Japanese players can.
Of course, if you’re some generic scrub at the game, then sure, I guess what Japan does is completely pointless. But if you’re hoping to remain competitive in any game that is played in Japan and the US, I hope you have your thinking cap on.
You keep telling yourself that.
Yeah, okay. Because we compare our top players versus their scrubs.
And what the hell does this mean? Tier lists HURT people? How? How does it hurt people to see who is the best in the game? Because they have a scrub mentality that “playing the best is cheap”? That sounds more like a personal problem than a realistic situation.
Anyway, a real discussion point. What is the “official” mode for American tournaments? If people play the game at EVO’s BYOC area, are we using A or B? Any more confusion at this point will only hurt the scene, rather than let it grow.
From the MB thread on dustloop.com:
[list]
[*]421B no longer whiff cancelable on hit, and there goes the infinite, damn they couldn’t fix it like it is in FT , this move is now near useless…
[*]Charged C damage down from 2200 to 1900 and 90% forced damage proration on both hits 
[*]214B has 90% forced proration.
[*]Shield bunker no longer special cancelable, there goes your pressure strings…
[*]second hit of 623A has 60% damage proration.
[*]Charged 6B will allways groud bounce, i guess that’s the only good change, but it’s not like it’s really usefull as it’s so slow…
[*]The bullet from Heat mode Arc Drive hits more standing characters, but who car about that…
[/list]
The major thing is that her infinite is gone and that you can’t do anything off of 421B, severely hurting her damage output. All the pressure in the world will not help you if you can not do any damage. The second biggest thing is that her shield bunker can not be special canceled now, which now requires new (and worse) blockstrings.
who knows, people might discover some new shenanigans for her in the next few weeks. remember when people thought sol was going to be horrible in slash because he lost dust loop? i have match vids from last september when the game was still new, and even p.c seemed totally lost. but after people learned to utilize sidewinder properly and minor property changes like faster js and better vv, sol quickly climbed to the top ranks.
so yea people might discover something good about new sion, but if not then… o well.
aoko scrub update:
for her bnb, i did 2a, 2b, 2c, 3c > [jb, jc] X 3 > throw like sp00ky said for a while. but it seems to be much more stable when you insert a standing c before 3c, then jc > jb, jc > jb, jc > throw. [jb, jc] x 3 also seems to be possible if you delay the standing c (or at least that’s what i’ve read) but i haven’t been able to get that down so far.
Nothing.
What is stopping you from doing your own trials? You have plenty of experience with other fighting games; you can deduct what does works and what does not work given the situtation, and adjust as necessary. It can be a grind to go through all of those situtations, but someone has to do it.
I do not think this is nearly as true as you think. I would figure that the vast majority of strategies, setups, and combos are discovered and refined by a relatively small player base, which then distributes this information (in play and in discussion) out to the larger body of players for further refinement. If you (somehow) have that core group of fanatical, dediciated players, you will discover the same set of tricks. Will they be refined? Probably not. Will it happen as quickly? Again, probably not… but they’re hardly helpless, either.
So yes, it is possible for people to figure out how to play a game without the help of an outside body. MB:AC is an example of this, actually – a couple of American players (ZTB and Xenozip) were using setups and combos for the respective characters that are now common ‘advanced’ tricks long before Japanese players were! There are also a couple of other American players (who I am not naming lest they molest me with their Nanaya realdoll) who understand the engine better than 99.9% of the playerbase, English or Japanese.
I never said we should be ignoring what the Japanese do. My issue was with the fact that you did not want to play a game just because they do not.
Nanaya overall damage is higher. His defense is buffed slightly as well.
To add to Sion’s Losses, reduced Damage on 5[C] means her wallslam combos (Which were her no meter damage trick) do alot less.
Thanks sp00ky. That’s just what I wanted to hear. I was hoping that they either increased his damage output or just improve his defense but if they did both, then I’ll take that. 
Yeah, the standing C seems to throw off the rest of the combo if you do it too early, but nonetheless it’s still good to get the timing down if it’ll net you some extra damage and reliability. For the air combo, I normally do [j.B,j.C] x3 air throw. Is there any advantage using j.C,j.B somewhere in there or does it strictly depend on the positioning?
I recommended skipping the jump C on the first jump pretty much which seems to keep it stable.
Nanaya’s Corner loop off 214B is GREATLY improved. He can do 2 reps easily now.
hitting the jc after the first jump cancel was kind of tricky at first for me, but once you get the timing down it’s not bad. and 2a, 2b, 2c, c, 3c > jc > [jb, jc] x 2 > throw definitely does more damage than doing 2a, 2b, 2c, 3c > [jb, jc] x 3 > throw. 2a, 2b, 2c, c, 3c > [jc, jb] > [jb, jc] x 2 > throw seems to work as well but i’m not sure if it’s worth the reverse beat prorate or not.
in terms of damage output 2a, 2b, 2c, delayed c, 3c > [jb, jc] x 3 > throw seems to be the best though. but i’m not sure if it’s guaranteed or not. too bad my execution in this game sucks to tell. D:
and so far i’ve had trouble doing combos on satsuki for whatever reason other than the combo with no standing c.
2a, 2b, 2c, c, 3c > jc > [jb, jc] x 2 > throw - this one has the highest dmg ouput compared to 2a, 2b, 2c, 3c > [jb, jc] x 3 > throw. Though the former is not so stable. Sometimes it misses in mid screen for some funny reason. The latter is very stable.
I think one of the reasons 2a, 2b, 2c, c, 3c > jc > [jb, jc] x 2 > throw is not so stable is probably because you need to execute jc right after 3c. The timing around that is very tight. A bit slower and your opponent has the chance to tech. I seen even seasoned players from match videos fluke on the first combo.
part of this probably has a lot to do with the fact that i didn’t play much melty blood before, but the game seem to drop inputs if i execute things, say… at a guilty gear tempo sometimes. like for aoko’s 2a, 2b, 2c, c, 3c > jc > [jb, jc] x 2 > throw combo, i do need to execute the first jc immediately but the game seems to drop it if i try to buffer it into the jump cancel sometimes. i think i have the grip on the correct timing now, but it still feels a little bit awkward for me.
i guess it’s something that i just need to get used to.
lol ok then. i think aoko is tied for biggest bust w/ arcuied :wgrin: . i forgot where i obtained this info but it somehow managed to stick w/ me.
they show three-size for each character at the character select screen
do you know what other fighting game does this? doa (!!!)
Doa, well THAT doesn’t come as a surprise. 
I haven’t seen the corner loop that often. Could you or someone else write out the notation for it?
Never reverse beat in a combo unless you need to. Getting 100 damage on a combo isn’t worth losing 500 on you’re next one. There are exceptions, but your bnb combos shouldn’t have reverse beat in them. Like landing a random air-air j.c. You can either do j.c airgrab, or j.cb, dj bc airgrab. Thats a good chunk of damage so the proration is probably worth it there.
For Aoko, I like groundwhatever> 2c3c j bc x3, airgrab, because it is reliable and you aren’t losing much damage at all.