The whole switch to Vanilla SRK really screwed it up big time. I have to re-arrange and edit many parts to it now. It’s disheartening and I’m really loosing morale in finishing it. I just gotta push on, I suppose.
I’ll try to get it out by sometime in March. I’m quite busy as of late and my free-time is limited.
I know that feel. My team does absolutely no damage but it’s really fun to be so creative. I get sad when I do so much work and Spencer can kill a character with one combo.
That feel is awful, but I’m working past it by creating a new team, which so much synergy it’s really ridiculous.
Morrigan/Jill/Strider.
Why is it ridiculous?
Morrigan benefit’s from striders anti-air juts like from hidden missiles, it’s pretty much almost as good for her. That one is self-explanitory. Jill doesn’t need a second assist but strider if you have really good positioning, which I’m learning but improving in.
The thing is, Morrigan has great TAC options, for some TACs when ;you really wouldn’t expect them. That means straight into a one-touch kill with jill’s easy as fuck tac infinite. 5 bars for morrigan’s astral visioning.
Now arrow kick is insane because of the fact that it wall bounces, you can confirm it into astral vision, into the soul fist loops for over 800k damage, with one meter. Also, if people feel like snapping in strider, morrigan serves as a great anchor anyway.
I’m slowly falling in love.
The reason your not getting anywhere is because you are constantly picking different teams. PICK ONE TEAM AND STAY With it. If you want to se your Jill improve, play point Jill. Jill Second is Okay, but shouldn’t really be played until you have the infinite down 100% and have good spacing.
You’re right, back to Jill/Dante/strider
So ive got a few questions:
How does Jill deal with run away teams and morridoom? I feel like once she gets AV up theres nothing Jill can do really.
Before I ask this, I genuinely do not mean to be shitting on Jill or the Jill community in any capacity…Im legitimately curious because Jill is never seen in the later stages of a tournament (with good players at least). So: Is Jill (with ANY team / shell) capable of placing top 8 at a major…and again, by that I mean a major where known tournament players attend. Something like final round or CEO, etc. Can Jill compete with these top tier teams, and if so, how?
Edit: Also, by this I dont mean something like " well its possible because jill has the best mixups". I mean if you were to put a jill team against Champ, or Justin, or Shady or Rog, etc, do you think a Jill team could do it realistically. Could a Jill team compete up there and give top 8 players a legit run for their money?
Strider is a popular choice since it’s fast and stealthy and applies pressure from anywhere to anywhere, and lets her okizeme game get started if it hits anti-air with its hard knockdown.
Her last ditch effort outside of a tag-out is usually a strong THC that she can confirm from, like with Dante or Frank; hypers that will blow through projectiles and keep going long enough for her to do stuff while they’re still going. Her machine gun hyper (MGS) is really invincible and clears the screen of projectiles, even Soul Fists and in some cases Missiles. If not, there’s the desperation move of using MGS and then canceling it with X-Factor after landing to follow up with a kill combo. If it kills the biggest threat, or possibly even two characters at once, it’s usually X-Factor well-spent. For the record, Jill is really good at catching and carrying the bad guy’s assist.
Jill is definitely in a tight spot once Astral Vision is up and running. MGS will clear them out, and you might clip Morrigan with some bullets if you’re lucky, but she can usually just fly or un-fly to block it. Break out a DHC and/or X-Factor if you get it, though. Remember that MGS is very invincible, so it’s a safe move if you just want to DHC to someone else like with Dante’s Devil Trigger. If Jill is played right, Morrigan won’t even get the chance to crack Astral Vision because of Jill’s absurd pressure and rushdown. Be alert and aggressive, and don’t let her gain any ground. She’s usually second in line, too, so it’s a good opportunity to take advantage of Jill’s incoming mix-up game. That said, it is still definitely not in Jill’s favor.
She can definitely compete, I think; the answer is we need to get better. We just don’t have very many players to test and play and learn and contribute with, and this is kind of a weird codependent character you have to pay for that requires more than no dedication to learn. I feel like it’s a character with lots of untapped potential even though we know about a lot of it, and some of it is just really difficult to put into practice. We’re a pretty small, and recently inactive collective who all pretty much know each other, so this character doesn’t evolve as much or as fast as someone like Magneto or Dante. All that considered, I think it’s amazing how much this community has accomplished, and I love them all.
That’s just what I think, though.
Fair enough. Thanks for the detailed post. I really appreciate it. Im assuming Jills optimal assists are Missles / cold shots / vajra / drones? Any other assist of note? I was just planning on using Jill / Doom / Ammy, but if there is a different team I could use that would be more optimal, I will definitely try it. Possibly Jill / Ammy / Strider? or switch ammy and strider? anyone else? Has anyone tried putting Jill second and having a character with a better neutral in the first slot?
Also, I know that her practical combos have evolved a lot over time, and im not sure if the OP in the combo thread is up to date. Could someone notate Jills optimal hit confirm? I know shes got jump loop stuff, but im really looking for her optimal stuff…any help? Also, is there any particular combo I should be using from MGS xx xfac > stuff.
I really appreciate any help.
You’re in luck. I just refurbished the updated combo thread a few hours ago to look less ugly with the new forum layout since they took out the emotes.
forums.shoryuken.com/discussion/172227/im-no-ordinary-civy-jill-combo-strategy-tech-thread-revamp
You’ll find your optimal combos from most confirms there in the first two posts, even for MGS > XFC, but I still haven’t posted normal confirms yet. It’s a little more complex, but I should just put up what I have anyway. The spoilers used to have damage and meter values on them, but not anymore. I apologize, but I’ll fix it later. To give you an idea, most combos will build just over half a meter if you’re going for damage, which is ideally somewhere in the high 600- low 700k range. She can build one meter if you’re sacrificing damage, though, which is okay since she’s big on resets from ground techs.
The teams you posed are perfectly viable. Play with Jill and her tools and weaknesses to see what’s most comfortable for you and decide what you want. I use Jill/Frank/Strider, which offsets some of her weaknesses a little, lets me keep up pressure, and set up and play her okizeme game all day long if I do it right. They’re also pretty hard assists to bop.
Some good assist (though not necessarily character) choices I can recall include:
Doom’s anything
Dog’s Cold Star
Arthur’s Daggers
Viper’s Burning Kick
Dante’s Jam Session or Weasel Shot
Strange’s Bolts
Frank’s Cart
Hawkeye’s Triple Shot
MODOK’s Balloon Bomb
Iron Man’s Repulsor or Unibeam
Nova’s overhead
Raccoon’s Spitfire
Sentinel’s Drones
Strider’s Vajra
Skrull’s Orbital Grudge
Taskmaster’s Horizontal or Vertical Arrows
You want something that’s quick and/or lasting to help you get mix-ups and safe feral dashes in, and an anti-air comes highly recommended since Jill can’t really do jack at super-jump height. The biggest challenge is with Jill’s inability to cover her assist, so great big fatties like Doom with Missiles or Sentinel doing anything are a bit of a risk.
You’ll also want to consider DHC and THC options so that you can maximize the options available from her hypers. MGS is a very safe move to DHC from with its invincibility, does a lot of damage after a Somersault, and is pretty easy to DHC from after damage with most characters. Raven Spike usually does less damage, yet causes a hard knockdown that lets you get an OTG hyper if you want, or a super high spin-out with a hard knockdown if you cut it off early.
Some players come in expecting her to need an OTG, which is not the case. Her optimized combos get enough damage without an OTG, and her throws generally can’t be confirmed from on purpose anyway, not to mention the monstrous hitstun scaling by that time. Setting up for something like that is only occupying a slot that could be used for something more effective in the neutral. If you like the idea of hard tagging out to someone else, though, you can run an OTG assist to go directly into Arrow Kick > H Double Knee Drop in the corner. Personally, I don’t like it and think it’s a waste.
Putting Jill second became an explored decision for a little while after her piss-easy TAC infinite was discovered, but to do that would put her at risk of incoming, which completely sucks for her, or losing an assist which also sucks. It’s not totally inconceivable to utilize the infinite after just switching her out after a kill, though. My and NonSexualRice’s team of Jill/Frank/Strider takes full advantage of her Arrow Kick assist to be completely mean if that opportunity ever arises, and the TAC infinite is still an option.
I think I overdid it, but I hope that answers your questions well enough.
EDIT: The hotlink for some reason just redirected you to page 1 of this thread. Changed it. Sorry.
Over did it? No way man. The more info / the more detailed the better. I appreciate you taking the time to be so detailed. One more question: of the combos listed, are all of them possible with a basic cr.L > cr.M > st.h? Or does HSD make them flip out?
Edit: Jesus christ that mad beast video was insane. Im at a loss for words.
Well you have to consider that most professionals play several games that they compete in. In order to do well at several games it is often enough necessary to choose the characters with the most benefit for the time committed (wesker, vergil, wolverine etc). Even though zero is considered to be one of the best characters in the game you don’t see that many people actually winning tournaments with zero. Zero takes more time and practice to flush out the potential of than some other characters and Jill similarly falls into that same category.
While I think Jill has the capability to be top 8 she doesn’t have the same large player base some characters do. She requires a large amount of stance canceling, has a bit of a learning curve, is dependent on assists, has no ranged tools (aside from MGS) and only moderately damaging combos. This a big turn off for most players who want quick results from the characters they play; especially since being able to TOD off of any hit confirm is a huge advantage in this game. None the less Jill has a lot of potential as the game evolves and more people branch out I think Jill will become a lot more common in the toury scene.
It’s worth noting that Paulw3b already does quite well in the tournament scene with Jill. Personally I am not professional nor is it likely I will ever be, I play the characters I love and am happy to show people out there that you don’t have to pick the top tier characters to have success at the game.
This isn’t true. Jill’s throws doesn’t add very much hitstun scaling. If you use MGS to combo after throws, it’s that which does it. But the throw itself doesn’t add much hitstun scaling. If you catch someone with a throw, you can raven spike whiff DHC to something XFC OTG into basically a full combo. For example:
Air throw > Raven Spike whiff (lands beside them) > DHC to Doom Photon Array > XFC > OTG into an easy kill combo.
It’s actually a pretty damn good option to do if you have your full team and want to kill their second/third character. I’d never do it against a point character, outside of maybe Zero.
I’m glad there are people to correct me, but I think I just worded that wrong. The scaling I was talking about was referring to using an OTG after a combo, not a throw.
Oh I see. Yeah, OTG assists are completely useless for Jill since she’s so reliant on assists at neutral, I completely agree with that.
Most of those combos will just cause them to flip out from those normal confirms after a while, which is why I need to update the normal confirms section.
So…not to sound like an idiot, because I know why Logan is so good…but what exactly are the reasons Logan is SO much better than Jill / why cant Jill be interchanged with Logan? Looking at it, they both have semi similar ways to alter their air trajectory, and they lead to the same thing for the most part…Logan does more damage, but Jill has much better resets…Logan is a lot less execution intensive, but that should never be a reason to say one character is better than another in theory…Jill has her invincible somersault which logan doesnt have, and it leads to a full combo / a frame trap…They both have easy mode left / right mixups, yet I think Jills are better since she doesnt have to waste a bar to make them safe…They both have trouble with zoning, yet a beam assist can mitigate that for both…umm…Logan can combo off his airthrows with an assist (I think this is one of the major things)…yeah. Im sure there are more similarities, but those were just the ones off the top of my head.
discuss?
Also, im not trynig to infer that Jill is as good as logan or can be interchanged with him…not yet at least. Im just wondering what yall think about this comparison.
Just call him Wolverine.
He’s incredibly meter-intensive, has only one option out of cross-up, a more simplistic incoming mix-up, worthless assists, and no high-low mix-ups. He also might be able to survive a combo, is easier to learn and play with potentially more payoff and actual options in the air. I don’t like that he doesn’t contribute much of anything when switched out.
Jill is much harder to block with greater speed and mix-ups, has better (though still not great) assists, and a one-bar escape plan. She’s extremely vertically restricted, though, and will probably die when touched. I like that she can recover health in between fights and still be an asset.
That’s just what I think, though. I don’t play with Wolverine because I think he’s really boring.
^^ this is what I mean though. Do you guys feel that Jill is a viable option to replace Wolv with? Why, or why not?
As a side note, Gangie, are you the only person active on these boards anymore? lol
I am :C, and just IMO, she isn’t, they booth require different assists. Its not like Jill/Storm/Akuma would be a good team. but I think shes about as good if not better than wolverine against most characters. Wolvie has some advantages in some aspects
God, no. Wolverine’s greater versatility and abilities to rely on simple magic series combos and cancel almost anything with Berserker Charge gives him a wider array of assists to work with that doesn’t necessarily have to help him in the neutral, unlike Jill who is heavily dependent on neutral assists to tip the playing field.
I actively lurk this board looking for a fun discussion, but it’s been very quiet here.