The only thing his counter ultra will be used for is online play to fuck with flowcharts.
It works because it’s possible. If they make a small change, it works. Why would they even bother putting in the 5th hit if it was never meant to connect? The only times I’ve ever seen anyone get hit by them is when up against DP mashing scrubs who take the few frames between the 4th and 5th hit to go to town, and eat the last hit. Take his CW in juggles as another example: it hits against 2/3 of the cast, but whiffs against (top of my head) Chun, Cammy, Balrog, Gen, and a few more? To that end, CW “doesn’t work” in juggles. I’d say it’s just a gimped move that needs a buff so that it always connects.
A lot of shit in SF4 only works on certain characters. Some of it is stupid (Akuma’s roundhouse loop on Sagat, old HK.CW infinite on Seth/Abel, Blanka’s fucked up hitboxes, etc) but some of it actually makes sense, like Fei juggling his ultra for 3 hits. It’s worth bringing up because it’s one of the easiest buffs they can make to Fei Long given that it’s already in SF4.
Samurai: like I said before dude, you would have to scale the ultra into the ground for it to be anything other than overpowered. Fei can potentially do upwards of 400 damage before ultra: tack on a scaled 495 relative to the amount of inputs to that point and you’d probably end up with damage well into the 600s, if not more. I can’t be bothered doing the math but I know it’d be big. And since there isn’t some crazy contingency to manually softcap damage, they’d just have to lower the overall damage of the ultra. There’s a reason Metsu Hadouken does such little damage outright: it’d be broken if it didn’t.
You’d be giving it nice anti-air properties at the expense of every other setup. I’m happy with it exactly the way it is because at least that way we can have a powerful cinematic ultra whilst keeping reasonable juggle potential. You can play it either way without compromising either facet of his offense.
And yeah, in all seriousness I’ve never seen anyone fall for Gouken’s counter at high level, and he’s made for defense and keepaway. I mean you’ll catch idiots with it once in a while who never stop going for jump-ins or mis-timed wake up meaties but still, I wouldn’t count that.
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Shine (Gouken) vs Sanford (Akuma)
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Shine (Gouken) vs Lincoln (Akuma)
It’s not a great move, but here it’s used at a high level (and als BAITED at a high level in the Sanford video).
Sanford turned around and creamed him with Sagat later, which should tell you something.
“Never” might be hyperbole but all you need to do is train yourself into the patterns, throw out some empty jump-ins and you’re sweet. Conversely, how often do you see other anti-air specials in high level play? More often than counters, no contest. They’re easier to time, have better properties, and don’t require guesswork to land. The only thing Gouken’s counter has that DPs don’t is the zoning aspect: the push across the screen is vital for him, but again, that’s part of his design. The enormous push-back on Fei’s counter doesn’t do him any favours, and the recovery doesn’t make it seem as though you can bulldog them afterwards like you can with Fei’s first ultra. I could be wrong on that point but it just looks that way to me.
It’s one of the reasons Gouken isn’t very good: He needs counter because his wakeup game is awful, but the problem is that it’s very easy to get around given that apart from cr.HP and cr.MK he doesn’t really have much against air attacks, and even they’re not that good. Tatsu is arguable but it whiffs like an ultra and anyone using it in a situation other than juggles or in the air is a maniac.
Fei and Cammy – they have a guaranteed anti-air move if you time it right, empty jump-in or no. I’d be more inclined to hit that relentlessly instead of blowing it all on a counter that isn’t even guaranteed.
Oh I know he got murdered by Sanford’s Sagat later, I was simply demonstrating it can be used at the highest level. That said, whilst it can be used, its lack of effectiveness even for Gouken (who relishes the chance to make someone work their way over to him through is fireballs) is also demonstrated in these videos, despite the Gouken winning. To be honest, I’m surprised Gouken has to use EX to get a upper & lower counter - it’s hard enough to use anyway, he shouldn’t have to use meter for it too in my opinion. Demon Flip grab owns it, as do the empty jump-ins you mentioned - why does he have to spend meter on the damn thing too?
If anything, those videos are actually useful to the “Change Counter Ultras” thread going on, because they show how utterly unreliable a Counter Ultra has the potential of being.
As for making Fei Long competitive, I notice that Guy got a Grab Ultra. Guy, with the CRAZY fast run. If he gets one, Fei should get one too. AT THE VERY LEAST, his command grab should be improved in terms of range a little bit AND should allow him to go into Ultra. Maybe even an increase to its recovery speed too… though to be honest, Gief’s SPD has a rather punishable recovery, so I guess so should Fei’s if it can go into Ultra. That set-up alone would make him a whole lot more viable though.
Im more concern about his regular moves changing, mainly overheadCW and EX rekka improvement…
an Ultra counter is stupid…
…should have made it a grab type or just given him his A3 Flame kick super…
Just an opinion but they should have given Kens new Ultra to Fei instead’
…it would make more sense…
Cammy and Fei Long definitely NEEDED a counter ultra to help them out :wasted:.
Or a regular counter like Gouken
I’m pretty sure they could add scaling on juggled ultras like with anything else. Don’t jabs scale more than other hits in this game? There’s scaling after a focus attack. Just make juggled ultras do less damage. I just don’t get why you don’t want the full ultra since they could just as easily put that in as making all 3 hits juggle on all characters. Plus you act like he’d be the only one who can do this. Lots of other characters juggle into full ultra too. We’re trying to make Fei good here.
I agree, I also think its about options and the more he has the better he will be in certain situations. I also think they should get rid of the gay push back ultra fail that happens alot.
hate that shit, so much.
Sakura with EX. Tatsu, Abel with c.HP, Bison with j.MP (not very useful, but it’s there!), Rufus with EVERYTHING.
Fei needs this. I don’t even play the guy, but he needs to be buffed.
a few things they need to serious address though:
-The weird ass pause he has after dashing forward, i hate that.
-His first ultra needs the startup properties it has in SSF HD Remix, go through fire balls without stupid push back.
-Get rid of the ridiculous ex-rekka properties…seriously capcom what practical use of punching fire balls is anyone gonna use in a match, it doesn’t work because if you actually space for it and get it to work, the fireball pushes you back and puts you out of range of hitting your oppenent with the next rekka, thus your oppenent will just launch another. Ex-rekkas should have armor properties period.
-His walk speed, never seen a bruce lee type character that keeps his feet planted while he moves, Fei walks too damn slow, change his walk animation to previous version were he has the lil bounce about his movement along with the speed.
-As far as his first ultra juggling…i’d be satisfied if you are hit with it while being juggled, it goes straight into the uppercut follow by the flying kick sequence and adjust the damage for the lack of the first few punches accordingly.
-CW needs to be an overhead on last hit if they keep it the way it is, meaning if only first hit armor breaks, then last hit should be overhead, if they change it to were all hits break armor than no overhead is cool.
-First and second rekkas should be safe for light and medium versions, trade off for hard version not being safe is big boost in damage.
-3rd hit from rekkas should wall bounce for a follow up cw or dash in flame kick if everyone has a wall bounce move.
-crouching meduims should cancel into rekkas
-and what the hell with all these characters with weapons, cody, vega, were are my nunchuks?
-reduce the frames on tenshin startup
-finally 2nd ultra…either zero start up and auto block on whiff and only half of revenge meter drains or make a damn command grab, i’m leaning more to the command grab tho would make people more afraid to be close to Fei.
/agree with mrtcohens
and adding
CW needs more + frames on hit: CW to standing fierce or cr.lp timing is too strict
This is 100% correct and nobody can argue with this fact
If feis combos/bnbs wasn’t so strict Daigo would of been steamrolled by Justin Wong
I think Justin is good and all, but this is kinda wrong
To be fair justin did lose A LOT of matches just because he missed links while Daigo MASHED HARD on DP. Just even stopped trying to combo after chicken wing hits at some point it was owning him so much.
People are like “nah man daigo can’t mash”. But no, seriously. The dude mashes DP during block strings sometimes.
IMO overall take out the whole “has to be a link or can’t be special canceled” aspect of the game. Give chicken wing more frames on hit.
And yeah, rekkas safer would be nice. Mediums cancelable…I agree. I’m not sure why everyone is like “yeah it’s ok ryu can juggle his ultra and have a cr.MK that hits half screen and can be canceled into specials and has quick walk speed but FUCK THAT’D BE SO BROKE ON FEI”.
People are just scared of Bruce Lee.
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**People are just scared of Bruce Lee.[/**QUOTE]
Let’s see how fei has handled in every game he is in:
SF2: 4th worst character
HDR: 4th character
SF4: 7th worst character
They must be afraid, because fei is literally a bad character in almost every incarnation.
Command Grab ultra would be sweet for Fei. I know with Guy it is gonna be sweet since he already can apply alot of offensive pressure. Now you can mix it up with an grab ultra.
Saying that. I expect Fei to be quite gimped this game as usual. I actually mained the guy in ssf2. I still play him in SF4 but it is no doubt that it is a big hill to climb.
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X-ism Fei was pretty good in Alpha 3