What you say it is actually not true. Emrakul has been hardcasted since he was originally printed. In standard it was Green eldrazi. In modern Tron, in legacy 12 Post. Ulamog is used in the curent standard in several ramp decks, too. So, the mana cost is actually very important. Just another example: the fact the the new Ulamog costs 1 mana less than the old one was one reason why the new one displaced the old. Mana cost actually matters.
As for the “fair” question: you are again ignoring the mana costs. Is a 6/6 creature fair ? It depends. For 5 mana ? yes. For 3 mana ? not at all. The higher the cost, the more i’m expecting. At 15 mana a creature should win you the game on the spot. If a 15 mana creature could be interacted and defended against than it would be very unplayable.
Anyway, my take on this is that cards like through thge breach, show and tell or goryo’s vengeance are the real problem, not the creatures.
(I guess new Emrakul could fittingly work with new Nahiri’s ultimate in Standard, but it’s still a question of “will it be good”, especially currently Nahiri is rather “meh” in Standard like Narset was for a long while and arguably still is.)
Sigh. Green Eldrazi is also essentially ramp between Eldrazi lands, Eldrazi mana tokens, and Green’s mana acceleration, so yes it’s still being “cheated out” as, again, ukyo_rulz already pointed out since acceleration is “cheating”. Basically, no one actually waits 15 turns to be able to cast old Emrakul is what I’m getting at when I said that no one really casts it for 15.
Like I said, I’m not going to argue this again given ukyo_rulz already explained this and if you remained unconvinced by that, then it’s pointless. I’ll only agree that the ways of “cheating things out” are more problematic than the creatures themselves, but given that you’re literally never going to get rid of ways to “cheat things out”, you have to take into mind when designing creatures–old Emrakul didn’t. It’s not like there had to be 15 mana cost creature in the first place after all.
Even if those decks are using ramp spells, Emrakul’s mana cost still matters a lot. Wether those decks are considered fair or not is irelevant. Even Abzan midrange in old standard used sylvan caryatid to accelerate into a t3 Siege rhino.
You almost have the right idea here. The key is “t3”. It doesn’t matter how much mana you paid for the Rhino. What matters is the turn you played it. So it’s meaningless to ask whether an [x]-mana Emrakul is fair. The correct question is whether a turn [x] Emrakul is fair. There is no meaningful difference whether you use Through the Breach or Nykthos to accomplish it.
It ultimately depends on whether “her” mana cost even comes into the equation though depending on what’s being used to get her into play, which is what I’ve been getting at and why I already realized that we would just be talking past each other on this point. Let’s just agree to disagree because I’m never been trying to convince you, really, and disagreeing is fine with me.
Either way, it’s not going to change the fact that Emrakul is the “Big Bad” of the second Innistrad block, which means that it’s likely that Emrakul either already gets destroyed–good riddances–or Innistrad, one of the more interesting planes as a whole, does. Save for Emrakul possibly escaping, which isn’t necessarily mutually exclusive to Innistrad getting destroyed, then whatever way this ends is likely just going to scream “wasted potential”.
I’m surprised, why do you think Boggles beats Infect ? I always thought is the other way around, considering Infect is faster and bogles has almost no interaction.
What do you think would be the better choice for the upcoming modern wmcq between Tron and Death Cloud ? I’m debating between these 2 decks.
On one hand Tron is overall better (it is a tier 1, kinda), but I only have 1 karn, and I’m expecting Infect to be quite popular (last year the final was infect mirror). On the other hand, Death cloud looked surprisingly good in my testing and seems better positioned against infect. It is also fun to play, but I have less experience with it.
From what you say here, Death Cloud seems “better”, at least for you and for what you expect to say, @Emanuelb. That said, at least two more things must be asked:
What type (read: color) of Tron were you intending to play?
How many copies of Ugin, the Spirit Dragon do you have?
(Gr Tron with or without Dismember? Regardless, that version of Tron at least has a chance against Infect unlike, say, Mono Blue Tron.)
Also, do you have the two copies of Ugin already? Or are you planning to borrow them given you say “get”? Buy them?
I ask because I could have sworn that Ugin still cost more than Spellskite last time I checked, but perhaps that’s changed between Ugin rotating out of Standard–good riddance–and Spellskite being in almost every deck’s sideboard.
no, you’re right, Ugin is also stupid expensive (esp considering he is out of standard), but I think I can borrow 2 ugins and 1 karn from my friends. But spellskite…I doubt.
For refference, these are the decks I’m considering:
(I see. Both lists look more interesting than the typical versions of the deck I tend to see; it’s always nice to see someone attempt to use Vraska even though I agree that she’s easily one of the weaker Planeswalkers.)
I’ll let others with actual experience suggestion things, but at present, I’ll comment on two things with regards to the Tron list:
I’m a bit surprised that Sudden Shock is in the sideboard at all over, say, Banefire given all of the mana you’re making if you’re worried about counters. However, I suppose that Sudden Shock is better against Infect between being technically cheaper than a worthwhile Banefire and Sudden Shock’s Split Second telling Vines of Vastwood to sod off. It’s similarly weird to see Nature’s Claim over Ancient Grudge, but Nature’s Claim can at least hit enchantments, so it’s not strictly worse even with the lifegain.
I’m going to assume that the Ulamog listed is the new Ulamog from Battle for Zenidakr and not original Ulamog, correct? Regardless, I’m not sure if the Kozilek listed is original Kozilek or new Kozilek.
I’ll try to think on suggestions, but it’s difficult to give what I think is meaningful advice how little experience I actually I have.
You think Death Cloud is also a dog against Infect ? I thought since it plays quite a lot of removal has a decent if not even favorable match up.
1 sudden shock is specifically against infect. very good removal against them. Nature’s claim destroying enchantments is huge, since you need ways to deal with Blood moon, stony silence, plus, it’s also good against boggles.
2. Both are the new versions. I think both are much better than the old ones.
