killer illumination is decent on vergil as well but still a crap shoot. The fact that vergil cant cancel his normals gets you a free killer illumination if he is sloppy or predictable with his normals and helm breaker. Even if he cancels into super he will get grabbed and killed with the follow-up combo. Once he has DT on though…lol, stick to the skies.
So after a great many matches we’ve all had most likely. Who do you think are MODOKS worst matchups?
I say:
Wesker
Vergil
Dante
Strider
Akuma
I personally think his only truly bad match up on a single character basis is Vergil. I think he has a lot of even or near even match ups with some of the top tier characters in the game, and then generally even or favorable match ups against the rest of the cast. Anyone with a tracking teleport forces him to play on his toes though. like Vergil, Dante, Rocket Raccoon, Dormammu etc. If they have non tracking teleports, like Wesker, I think Modok can handle them with relative ease.
I also think Ghost rider has the potential to give Dok a fair bit of trouble if he can get into a proper rhythm of blockstun, but for the most part, he isn’t anywhere near Vergil levels of bad.
When it comes to teams however, there are more potential difficult match ups, but I think with proper assist support, they can all be mitigated to a decently fair fight.
Well keep in mind, I’m actually considering them with ideal assists. Dok without assists is inferior to those characters without assists too imo.
I just don’t really think Wesker or Akuma give Modok all that much trouble even with assists. Or rather, the trouble those two can give with assists is not exclusively bad for Modok, their mixups can be hard to block in general. Between Modok’s movement and zoning abilities, He can handle a lot of combinations well. Dante is one that I think goes relatively even 1v1, but if you give him something like Vajra assist, he becomes a lot harder for Modok to deal with. But I think if you give any character Vajra assist, it changes things drastically against Dok. I also don’t think Strider is really all that bad against Modok unless he has something like drones or cold star to back him up. Once you get a hang of handling his teleports, he can have a hard time actually landing a hit, and then a hard time doing enough damage to make it count. Anchor lvl 3 Strider obviously being an exception due to his drastic movement/damage increase.
I think Shuma beam assist is also another one that makes any team more difficult for Modok. Since his movement pretty much cannot avoid it. I did find that Modok’s standing M + Log trap would normally stop most aggressive characters and then the log would trade with shuma beam though. It is one of the only match ups I still drastically prefer using RR over Doom for.
I’d say Strider and Super Skrull are Dok’s worst matchups. Strider is just crazy mobile and safe, while Super Skrull’s meteor smash is virtually unpunishable ( :df::h: is the only consistent AA that you can do on reaction) and his grabs work great against Dok. I personally have trouble with Felicia, but I think that’s mostly matchup inexperience (though I think that is a bad matchup for Dok). I don’t think Wesker or Ghost Rider are bad matchups… I think those are in Dok’s favor. Wesker has nothing on Dok at super jump height, and more or less the same with Ghost Rider. M cubes, barriers, and neutral assists helping out shut down Ghost Rider. Akuma does give me trouble when he has meter, but I don’t think Akuma has a big advantage. I don’t actually have many problems with Vergil, Dante or Zero anymore, but that’s probably because I face them too much and Doom missiles are great. The small characters are annoying to face, but I don’t think they have an advantage… those matchups run the clock from my experience. Dormammu is not a fun matchup, but I think missiles even it up.
I feel like the biggest risk Dorm gives Dok is that he can infinite assist calls with pillar while keeping dok locked down at full screen. Definitely a winnable match, but some of the best players in my region are Dorm players and they always punish me hard when I make a mistake.
I don’t entirely think Ghost Rider is all that bad, but I have found that due to Dok’s large hitbox, you need to get maximum space to really do much. and his upward reaching normals keep Modok out of the air rather easily. So with a lockdown assist like Missiles, it can be a bit problematic getting the space to move, but once you get a barrier up, the match up changes back into Dok’s favor.
I also constantly get practice against the best Zero player out here in AZ, and I think Modok does very well against him all things considered. I put the match in Zero’s favor only because if modok lands a hit from mid/full screen, chances are low that the follow up will do 100% damage. The same cannot be said for zero, one mistake and Dok dies =( but that still doesn’t change the fact that Dok has very good options against him in the neutral game.
Vergil just feel like a matter of luck for me though. I can stump the bad Vergil’s in my area, but the smarter players that use him certainly know how to make my options feel limited.
With Dorm, I find that good reads are really needed. You really have to be on point with that matchup. Both sides are momentum based, so you just have to be quicker and smarter than your opponent. Blasters at range, st.L and j.L when they try going nuts up close. Ghost rider is absolutely free to barrier and M cube. If you get either of those out and you have a good neutral assist, you should win. And getting him away isn’t hard with a couple push blocks and blasters stop assists. For getting a 100% combo on Zero, if you have the right team composition so that you can use both assists in your combos, you should definitely be able to KO Zero off of any touch with 2 bars (if needed). With Vergil, you just can’t make mistakes… all his stuff is fairly obvious or preventable. The main things are to don’t let him throw out his charge move and watch out for your neutral assists. Blasters and neutral assists all day stop Vergil from activating SS or calling assists.
Yeah, any real touch can 100% zero, but at full screen the only touch you will get is usually a blaster (possibly canceled into hyper). Meanwhile from the the same distance he can land a lightning and combo to death. That is more what I was getting at.
Also on the subject of Skrull, Dok with Vajra assist can really mess with Skrull’s smash shenanigans. The match up is still irritating, but I cannot tell you the amount of times I have seen skrull fly into the air only to be kicked back down for a full combo from Dok.
Ah, I get you now, though buster/lightning stuff full screen shouldn’t be tagging you much, since you have some time to call assists and setup bombs or cubes… or simply block and push block if you know they are at an advantage.
That does seem like it would work against Skrull. Missiles work well at stopping it too, but Doom can be hit out of its startup. I usually just try to get another character out there… which is usually Doom lol.
Agreed on Zero there. I really do think Modok can keep him out just fine, you just only really get to make one mistake against him, where he can potentially make a few unless you tag him with a real hit.
When I was using Raccoon, I would just burrow against Meteor Smash, it always seemed to annoy my local Skrull players to no end. Occasionally Strider can get hit and blown up by inferno, but generally, if you call it properly he either hits him for a combo or whiffs and gets away unscathed. If you can get Modok to the corner, smash cannot cross up, so normally I try to get my back to the wall so that I don’t have to choose which way I block. if I am mid screen, I usually try to neutral the stick and see which direction Dok faces and then block accordingly. If you are daring you can sometimes throw them before they cancel into inferno, and you can always do it if they are dumb enough to smash without meter. The only problem about getting your back to the wall is you simultaneously open yourself up to Skrull’s corner pressure/command throw game.
One of the only Skrull combos that really makes me afraid is Skrull with log trap assist. It is shockingly hard to block and makes his smashes safe without meter as well as easy to follow up with a combo.
When I have to have Dok on point against Skrull, I either try to rushdown like crazy or get to a corner… all the while trying to get missiles out to stop meteor smashes, then getting an L bomb out to float above Dok’s head. That bomb will AA Skrull out of meteor smash, but it’s startup is a problem since meteor smashes are quicker. As long as I have an L bomb out, I’m able to do a lot more safely. It’s still a terrible fight though. I just try to get Doom in though, unless my third character does decently against Skrull. Doom can handle Skrull well enough, especially with assists.
I actually had not thought much about situating Dok under an L bomb before. Slow, but pretty clever.
Yeah, besides the Skrull and Dante matchups (L bomb right behind Dok’s head), I never really use L bombs much, though I should since they’re easy to confirm off of, persist for some time, and can be good combo breakers. Once you get one out, I find the matchup to be a lot easier, since you can refresh your L bomb fairly safely with assists. From there, the command grabs are the only thing to be really worried about. Getting that first L bomb out is a challenge though, and even when its out there, that matchup sucks.
I need help with Tron match up. Any advice? I know you guys are like wtf? Your a scrub if you can’t beat that but this character just gives me problems since vanilla. I don’t have good spacing perspective or wateve, which prob makes me a bad dok player. This guys really great player in my area. Anyways i hav probs with particularly her pressure and guard break set up. Just box dash 3/4s of the screen. Also can kill my team in 3 touches. Maybe 4. Only other teams I face like that is wolverine or offensive dorms And Zero may cry teams. Anyways I set the training mode dummy to airdash j.M to j.S since it has a great hit box. really hard to anti air as well. I don’t think I can st.L or cr.L. I think setting a cube is good. I think also I need to learn to push block chars like tron and sent twice? Like they come in, I push block and then there in range to do another jump in attack. I sometimes get hit with high low with this char bc my reactions ass. That chainsaw leg. Also i find it hard to run away from the tron with airdashes or body attack bc of dok’s hitbox.
For just tele chars in general, I think putting a shield then standing like near the front is always good. Also, I don’t think there is a character that does well against verg? 1 meter and you are forced into the mix up. Also he can push block punish right? I also have trouble with dorm. Seems really hard with pillars since dok is big and is kind of slow. Also once he has spells charged up it shuts down alot of options for most chars not just dok.
Does anyone know the trish match up? I find it hard to get a good read on a character like this. While ppl know her for her annoying defense, I think she has really great offense. think of magneto with a dive kick. She can also cancel here divekick to a special move. I really don’t know what to do against this character. also is mashing l attack and l cube a okay get off me move?
Honestly against Tron you need to be proactive but don’t press buttons against her in the air when she’s close. Block, pushblock, if she jumps, analyze that shit and s.L. Against Trish I think you’re in for a world of hurt if you stay on the ground. I think in general she’s another bad matchup. Another character that can hit confirm for days off of most air hits into full combo. Her c.l is godlike too. Too many opportunities off of Divekick for her to be displaced behind you. (I noticed that in order to make room for MODOKS model the game will sometimes just cross you up for the fuck of it. Easiest to see this is when someones rolling and they seem to roll SUPER far because they can’t stand up “inside” MODOK)
Personally I think a lot of fraudulent Weskers make Wesker look bad still. His strength is mixing you up when you come back to the ground and s.J gunning most of your attempts to zone. Good Weskers I’ve seen like to mix you up from the bottom if you’re trying to apply pressure at super jump height. With the propper beam assist or even say Vajra. Wesker has Doks number, but without any of these things it’s definitely winnable. I’m just saying an attentive good Wesker should be all over DOK.
I feel Dante is more of the same, too many people on autopilot. I thought I had trenchcoats all figured out until I played a few cats flying a bi-plane.
With Tron, I just take it easy and push block or analyze her attacks. Like Dok, you are basically going to be blocking high the entire time, unless she gets in. Spend cubes on EX barriers to take control and put stuff on screen. Trish is really strange and her dive kick is annoying… I really think you need a lot of matchup experience to know how that dive kick functions so that you can block/push block it consistently. If she cancels her dive kick, super jump away. A Trish that tries to zone from afar is a dead Trish.
With Dorm and Vergil, just don’t let them get started. I know that’s easier said than done, but don’t let SS come out, don’t let Dorm charge spells, don’t let pillars come out. L blaster it all.
I think Dante deals with Dok better than Wesker, but I think they both have a bad matchup, though not that bad for Dante. I just don’t see any good options for Wesker specifically… it all relies on Dok making mistakes. Wesker really doesn’t force you into nasty 50/50 situations unless Dok lets him. If Wesker is under you, Dok better already have a) neutral assists doing work b) H bomb out for safe decent c) mobility options. The only time you are going to be at SJ height is when Wesker is at SJ height at the other side of the screen, since that is the only way he is effective up there. That means you can get all that stuff out before Wesker is under you. And when you are on the ground, blasters shut down assists, L cubes stop jump ins, etc.
Do you guys have any suggestions for dealing with Felicia? All I know now for sure is that normal barriers are useless in that matchup.
I mostly just try to get enough breathing room to float a bit, and then I try to visually gauge the angle she comes in with delta kick so that I can punish it from directly above her as she flies under me. I don’t have a lot of felicia experience though, but every one that I have played whores out that delta kick like crazy, and Dok is in the unique position of being able to position himself around it with his float. Also, doing the old tap up, air dash up, call assist, air dash xx baby kick down seems like a decent way to be aggressive against her and safely get your assist called.
I don’t sweat the Delta kick much, I cube it up. It’s just very easy to see coming and interrupt imo. Now if she has Vajra or something like that you may have a problem on your hands.
Thanks guys. I guess i need to stop pressing buttons. Ya know I’m thinkin modok is top tier character now. I’m doing alot better against those match ups I usually have probs with like chris, task, spencer and players who used to body me free with those chars. I utilizing every tool he has. also I think he is great with xfactor. But Idk how long I can keep up with xfactor guard cancel killer illumination gimmick. I think he can deal with morrigan doom team somewhat.