Let’s discuss strategies using lili against, shoto’s, tekken characters, and or specific characters. You may include videos if you’d like.
Well I found her counter has like 1 frame startup so it’s not like traditional counters(like Geese in KOF, or Wesker in MvC3), once you input the command, its active in like 1 frame even though it may not look that way. Now that I found that out, I counter wakeup dp’s or general jab pressure from poke characters like Rolento.
Yeah i found this out the other day too. Definitely a good wake up.
Just wanted to put this here, thought it would be appropriate for everyone to know.
It’s actually 100, 100, 80, 70… etc
Her mp counter against Heihachi when used after the foward lp will counter his mp(overhead) and hp(low) so might be useful
So how do you guys use Lili?
Are you a rush down type? Are you the combo whore type? I see that she is very combo friendly, but I think if you try to show off with too many combos you’re just risking it. Some combos look nice but are not very good for real matches and also you can get almost the same damage with more simple combos. So the risk of doing fancy combos are not worth it.
I find that her j.mk crossup is really good for messing with people. If you can predict rollback, you should jump back on reaction and throw a j.mk crossup to mess with people who get predictable with their rollbacks. It really messes some players up. She can then link a BnB combo after that crossup
I play her really defensively with some bursts of agression.
I walk around in df+hk AA range and buffer cr.mk xx deo with the occasional dash cancel. I do quite a lot of deo blockstrings and frame traps with st.lp and cr.mp and the occasional throw and if I’m confident that they will sit still and not press buttons, then I will go for an overhead.
If the character I play vs has a poor AA, I just j.mk crossup hit/block into st.lp > cr.mp xx deo (block) or ex deo (hit) into combo.
I actually don’t use her f+mk st.mp much, I probably should, it’s a great footsie tool
On roll, I do jumpback mk and react to whether they rolled or not, if they roll, do mk and if they stay still, do meaty hk divekick and you will have + frames.
I don’t really use her ex divekick much in pressure.
Yeah her ex divekick is pretty much a waste of meter, If you fight someone who likes to jump in then they’re already dead. If you fight someone who can’t block a high low mixup then they’re dead. Lili has a lot of utility. She can pressure without meter, Safe Pressure. Get up in there. She’s good
^ yup i agree here.
I play her defensively as well. Without meter all she can really do to close the distance is f+MK and jumping into well spaced HK dive kick or j.MK or j.LK xx j.MK TC, so it’s kind of hard playing footsies with her (though f+MK is godlike if used at the right time). With meter I won’t give a second thought to throwing out footsie EX Sunflower Lances, shit’s derpy as fuck but oh so good. Her normals generally suck for poking in terms of hit-boxes except for f+MK and st.MP/cr.MP buffered LK SL. I try not to test my opponent’s buttons with Lili’s, in most cases it’s a trade or worse with cr.MK, her longest range cancel-able poke.
In terms of AAs, she has st.MK, cr.HP, df+HK, and st.MP, in that order of range, st.MK being right on top of her. st.MP is godly as an AA at its max range, don’t neglect it.
I end most hit jump-in combos with st.LP -> cr.MP xx launcher, as her launcher does 100 damage compared to everyone else’s 50, and her combos don’t do much more than that unless she puts in 2 bars. End every f+HK on hit with Bedtime xx LK AK -> LK AK -> cr.MK xx LK SL. End every Peacock Jive with cr.MP xx launcher. End df+HK AA with cr.HP xx HP Dendrobium -> f+MK xx f+HP if they were hit high up, otherwise just normal LK AK -> cr.HP xx LK SL.
Mix-ups on blocked st.LP, well, I wrote them out elsewhere:
- Bedtime hit-confirm into LP Dendrobium to keep a good distance and apply a little pressure, or LP Dendrobium CADC backwards to reset the spacing into df+HK range.
- cr.MK xx EX Sunflower Lance to play low -> high into +3 on block, and roughly 250 damage if either parts hit. You can also just use cr.MK xx LK SL, but it’s a lot riskier. If your opponent starts by default blocking after blocking a cr.MK, switch to cr.MP -> cr.MK to go low -> low -> high.
- Submissive Heel into Bedtime xx LK AK -> LK AK -> cr.MK xx LK SL
- f+MK xx MP hit-confirm. Technically not a frame trap in that you can get hit out of it, but the gap isn’t too large and the open gap is good in this game where mash teching is straight up Forrest Gump status.
- Forward jump or neutral jump TK EX dive kick
- Back jump HK dive kick, aiming at the legs.
- cr.HP xx CAing Dendrodium into wall bounce on hit, and +2 on block. This doesn’t combo, but there’s less of a gap here than if you try a MP xx CA Dendrodium.
- cr.HP xx CA storing into f+LK. Risky, but if the first part hits it combos due to counter-hit and it’s a full stun combo into a full f+MK xx MP -> Bedtime xx whatever combo mid-screen, or straight up cr.HP xx LK AK into pain or however much meter you want to spend in the corner.
In terms of tricks, the ones I know she has:
- In the corner, j.HK and j.MK don’t cross-up, j.LP does but it can be crouched, and j.LK -> j.MK TC is deceptive as it not only actually makes Lili cross up unlike her normal j.MK, but the opponent sees a whiffed jump-in and may want to throw or jab.
- After LK SL, LK Feisty Rabbit to cross-up and play cr.LK, f+HK, dive kick, or throw games.
- When jumping in, she can mix it up with j.HK, j.HP (hits twice), j.LK xx j.MK TC, late EX dive kick, empty jump cr.LK -> st.LP into whatever, or empty jump throw. I think she can use MK/HK/EX dive kick to screw with AAs, but I haven’t attempted that too much.
- After blocked non-EX Dendrobium, using HP/EX Counter is a good way to make your opponent stop pressing buttons. If they’re not pressing buttons or you just want to try it, go for cr.LK -> cr.MK as a hit-confirm. After a hit non-EX Dendrobium (I prefer LP/MP over HP for the distance), you can use cr.MP xx (EX SL or another MP Dendrobium) if you think they’ll try pressing buttons or jumping, or f+HK to catch them sleeping.
- As Fergus mentioned, jump back j.LK -> j.MK or HK dive kick to try and contain a roll or non-roll on reaction. Lili gets her jumping mix-ups off of a roll same as any other.
When you rh divekick , or any dive kick for that matter - do you guys still aim for the feet of the opponent?
Should be done as soon they knock down or should you wait a bit? And can’t you cross it up?
Rh is too slow. Ur opponent will roll away. Mk dk is much better and u can wait on ur opponent to do it. All u do is aim for the head and they gotta guess which way to blk.
Nice. I didn’t know that dive kick could be used as an ambiguous cross up like that. Thanks!!
Lili EX Dive Kick is super good. I use it to feint a cross up so they block the other way.
You can use it as an os too. When someone rolls your input for ex dive kick will turn into ex divine step and hit them on their recovery from the roll. Hella risky though. It does require some practice. I used it like a few times last night against my friend.
That’s pretty legit, a very nice Shenanigan. Once it works the first time, they’ll be hesitant to roll or will just block after roll wake-up. That’ll be good to set up another offense.
yeah and if they don’t roll you get the ex dive kick and free pressure. It really works nicely for lili.
I start the round with lk dive kicks to build meter until they start walking towards me. Then get ready to AA a jump or get my pressure game going.
An interesting trick I found tonight by accident, if you have an opponent within chip of being KO’d and they’re knocked down, you can stand about a dash length away, and do qcf+kk on their wakeup…if they wakeup normally they’ll have to eat ex sunflower lance, and if they roll you get ex feisty rabbit.
Completely situational but it worked out nicely. It could feasibly be a decent mixup even if they’re at higher health, but not really reliable since ex feisty rabbit (or any followup) isn’t safe.