Fair point. All in all, it don’t really matter 
Makes the story easier to digest for me. A simple rock and a hard place decision, a moral conundrum.
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I know I said I left, but I see some good discussion here, so I’ll chime in. A anti-fungal vaccine is theortically possible but its never been accomplished. Not only that, since fungal spores don’t try to turn our cells into machines to make more spores like viruses do, they remain a seperate foreign substance in our systems. So a treatment that directly a takes on the fungus is far easier to develop. You don’t get situations like chemotheraphy treatments that attack healthy and cancerous cells. Any proper anti-fungal treatment will only harm the fungus. Ellie’s antibodies neutralize the spores. So killing her is stupid because if she’s alive you’d have a continuous source to develop a cure with.
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Absolutly. It just makes it a judgement call and not a selfish one. The argument seems to be Joel doomed humanity for the sake of keeping his adopted daughter around. That doesn’t seem to be the sole case at all. There is a hell of a lot of doubt as to wether him handing her over would have done anything more then cause her death. Even if he wasn’t close to Ellie that’s a hell of a judgment call to make.
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I am still not following the logic about people crying about “how Joel went out” and was killed. It’s almost as if you didn’t play the game (which many people in this thread didn’t) and did not follow the full story. Joel was on a high from the conversation he had the night before with Ellie. She had finally forgiven him or at least told him that she would try. What he had been waiting for for multiple years happened hours before he ran into Abby.
He was in a very vulnerable mindset because of that. And he quickly realized when they got into the place with all of Abby’s buddies that they needed to GTFO out of there, but they were hugely outnumbered.
Oh yeah and unlike those of you who read the spoilers months before the game was out, Joel did not know that he killed Abby’s dad and who she was.
Do you have to follow it? You have your own opinion and that’s perfectly fine.
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Usually a “why” helps understand the reasoning.
People explained why. You rejected those whys. Why keep going? I just think you are gonna go in circles at this point. You disagree with them and they disagree with you.
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I haven’t seen anyone explain “why” he can’t go out like that. Dude was outnumbered like 10 to 1 I’m not sure what they wanted to happen. Explain.
“Because he is a main character” isn’t a valid explanation to me. If it is, I hope nobody in this thread talking about that being their reason also likes Game of Thrones.
So yeah, if “because he is a main character and I like him” is a reason, you are right I disagree and their opinion is wrong 
No one here made that argument. That was Angry Joe. Take it up with him on the comment section of his video or on twitter.
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I mean I’ve seen you disregard Joel being out of character and giving his name away without much of a thought something he would never do even with an emotion high from being witjhEllie and you hand waved that away. You arent going to buy anyones reasons because you have you mind made up already just like they do.
So yea you’re all going to disagree here. You don’t like each others reasons.
So why continue? You don’t like echothers arguments and have convinced no one on either side.
Edit: I personally found NDs attempts to make me care about Abby fucking laughable, you’re never gonna make me care about someone who demonstrators they are fucking monster right out the gate but that’s my opinion. You like her and that’s fine.
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Fair enough.
Also, Tommy gave his name first and said “this is my brother” so I’m sure they could put 2 and 2 together since they had heard of them before.
I also think Abby knew exactly who they were before they got there regardless of him giving them his name. Her reaction when dude asks who they are said it all to me.
And that’s also fair. I don’t think Tommy would have done that either, but it is what it is. Like it or dislike it.
The fact of the matter is ND took a huge risk with the story, anyone can see that. Seems the risk has been highly divisive at best. They have characters acting in ways that many consider OOC, and they tried to endear people to someone they introduce as basically a monster. Revenge is one thing. Torture is another. She could have shot him and had her revenge or something but ND decided ahe needed to beat the shit out of Joel first and then asked players to empathize with this person and that’s a huge fucking ask. I went over this in the VGG thread a month ago when this all started going down. You are going to have a huge mountain to climb when it comes to making me feel bad for characters who try to kill me. Maybe that’s different for you but for me you try to kill me I don’t care about you anymore. You have to do some pretty epic humanizing to get me to like that kind of character. Joel and Ellie where violent but they weren’t sadistic. Abby came off pure psycho for me so winning me back is next to impossible. I can empathize with revenge, but I can’t with excessive violence against a living thing human, animal, whatever. You lose.me at that point.
Seems you lose a lot of.people at that point.
I don’t know anything about no Angry Joe review I stopped watching him years ago, I don’t need that kind of energy in my life anymore.
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And ND knows that being polarizing is good for business I’m sure too. All it does is draw more interest because people love to take sides on things, but in turn that means they have more eyes on the game which in theory means more sales.
I mean look how many people in this thread don’t like the game yet continue to talk about it.
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I don’t mind the creative decision to kill off Joel the way they did. The execution of it was donkey balls. Letting his guard down around a group of strangers where he is positionally surrounded is too out of character for him.
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Made a huge edit. Dont want to move it
Read it if you like.
I was gonna reply to @purbeast for why I didn’t like Joel’s death. Because the whole “Hoes mad he couldn’t fight off ten dudes? Ya dumb lol” But you brought up how him getting in that situation to begin with was dumb and said everything else that needed to be said.
Bravo sir.
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IIRC Tommy says their names before that. That’s when Abby figures out who they are. When Abby, Tommy, and Joel were fighting off the infected together. Abby knew who he was before they reached her compound.
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Yeah I thought I remembered something but wasn’t going to go watch some gameplay to pinpoint it. Some people will conveniently forget about that though since it doesn’t fit their agenda.
More than anything I don’t “get” about TLOU2, that stands out.
I can’t write for shit. But even I would know trying to make the audience sympathize with a character that sadistically killed the beloved main character from the last game like that is a problem I don’t want. Like, why even take that risk unless you have THE BEST story ever after?
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It can be done. Just not as presented. The way to do it is to have the player use that character know they are after someone but not who. This allows the player to bond with and sympathize with the character without preconceived biases or emotional attachments shaping their opinion. After doing that, you have the character brutally murder the beloved character and that would give you character that they were going for. While there are still major issues with the story IMO. The order of events being changed could have gone a long way to mute some of the negative reaction.
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