http://forums.shoryuken.com/showpost.php?p=7810564&postcount=67
None of these apply pressure. Lars is almost incapable of applying pressure in a conventional way. His frames all suck. Move for pressure though, d/f+1+2, fff+3, 1 and that’s it.
Ummm…
You’re wrong actually. The other guy was right. Save for fff3, but that doesn’t really count because you can’t use it repeatedly since it can be SS’ed and whiff punished hard.
No. I don’t see how mids that are -3 and up on block can be used to any sort of pressure. Lars has nothing under 15 frames where counter hit is a worry. So even if you are at say -2 no one will be scared to throw out a mid for fear of damage. What you you going to do? 21? 24 damage? Who cares. Lars can’t keep presure. What +frame moves does he have on block? I listed them fff+3, d/f+1+2, and 1. Everything other move he has is - on block by A LOT. Which = no momentum. For lows the only move he can “kinda” use for momentum is d/b+4 but it’s slow and the momentum gained is very small.
Pressure with Lars must come from fear of moves like b+1+2 and u/f+3. Which are unsafe. So Lars can’t ever put pressure on his opponent. He just has to toss moves out and hope they hit. When they hit he can try to do some kind of mix up and chances are whatever that is will reset momentum. No character in this game outside of baek can really apply pressure and the same goes for Lars. If you try to do any of those move in sucession after block you’ll get owned.
So again, if you want to PRESSURE, 1, which is +1, fff+3 which is I think false +17, and d/f+1+2 which is +2.
Nobody uses b1+2 or uf3 for pressure… those are crush moves. Also, SS~uf3 works wonders.
The rest of your post = what somebody who doesn’t play Lars would say.
I can’t be bothered to explain in detail, but in a nutshell: all the moves you criticized are used by Fukusu to pressure/whiff punish, and he’s arguably the best Lars player. How often will you see him throw df1+2? Almost never. He uses d2, which is 0 and FC on hit/block/CH, but leaves Lars standing.
db21 is a great, great move. db21~SW~whiff punish with f1+2 or f23. You can close the distance with db21 because it will duck under so much shit, and only very few moves can out-prioritize it.
etc. etc.
Stop theory fighting based on frames man. uf3 is -21. That’s all that needs to be said.
god your a fucking moron.
Once you scare someone with one good u/f3 as a high crush they aren’t gonna be so quick to just throw out jabs everywhere and that’s where yes, you can apply pressure. You’re right in that Lars isn’t good at conventional pressure, yes his frames suck. I think the pressure comes from the fact that a simple d/f2 counter hit, or u/f3(, or even u/f4 since it’s pretty safe) can do a lot of damage and your opponent doesn’t feel so confident in throwing out simple jabs to try to stuff things.
Someone seemingly new wanted some moves to start out with - they’re not all ‘pressure’ moves I guess but I was just trying to give him a little list to start with. Tekken movelists are overwhelming when you’re new.
Damn, Lars has to be the king of crushing in this game. I thought b+1+2 only high crushed, but it seems it crushes MIDS too. I played another Lars player with my Julia, and tried to elbow (ff+1) him. b+1+2 went straight through it and hit me.
Lars’ biggest asset is whiff punishing. He punishes all bad whiffs huge and can do it from pretty far ranges compared to other characters. He’s not necessarily a super rushdown/mix up type character that has crazy frames. That’s not what he’s designed for.
Lars is not a great rushdown character. But you can apply pressure. Mixing shit up applies pressure. Just because he’s not + on block doesn’t mean shit. We’re not talking T2 Armor King d/f+1 here. Which was mid and completely spammable. u/f+3 is your panic/hopkick move. DE has some decent mixups and a throw out of it. Plus can have a psuedo wavedash out of it. If thats not pressure for your ass I don’t know what is. For anyone that says his lows suck are fucking tards. He has awesome lows. “BUT THUR LAUNCH ON BLCKKK!!!” yeah so what, so are hellsweeps. And Lars has an unseeable low. He’s a punishing nightmare, having an answer for -10 through -16 up close. He has a fucking 14 frame launcher! What do you want?!? He’s fucking good. Not top 3 but he’s definitely top 10.
I’m having problems with Lars. Like period. I can’t really win. I mean, I barely get off combos, I can never create an opening. Especially when fighting my friends steve. What exactly am I supposed to do keep up pressure and keep up the lead?
Go into training and learn just how long range b+1 is. It also tracks sidesteps. Poke with that from afar (try not to just spam it, but learn the range and it’s great). d+1+2 is also a nice ranged low.
If you think steve is about to jab or go high, use your ultimate scrub killing high crush, uf3. uf3, into crouching 2, while rising 2,1 db2~f~1
Fish for counter-hit d/f2. Oh they blocked df2? Throw another one. Watch it counter hit, free combo. Simple example: counterhit df2, df2, db21, fb21, fb21. This’ll leave them knocked down RIGHT next to you where you can mixup sweep/stomp or a good mid like 1+2, f+1+2, df2…
Incorporate f+1,2 f+2,1 & 2,1,3 into your game as a start. Maybe some 1,1,1 & df1. It took me a while to figure out how to pressure with Lars, it’s hard to just explain like do this then do this. It’s a very ‘feel your opponent’ kind of game in general, and like someone mentioned before he doesn’t have the best frame advantage so he’s not really a blockstring kinda character. Very intuitive.
I know the combos. I was posting while in a rush so I wasn’t really accurate. I’m moderate with Lars. But I can really land the killing blows, nor can I really force him to commit to stupid shit, like wiffing ffn2. I usually get a ff+2 when I keep mixing up ff+34 and ff+43.
But I just have problems with steve, cause I usually beat him with my Feng Wei by rushing him down(sorta) and making him fall for tech traps. I can’t really do that with Lars yet.
The other problem is Kazuya. Becase he is counter happy. All he likes to do is EWGF and df+2 to get his combos. I don’t know if Lars has anything fast enough to punish that df+2
If you’re not already in the habit of f+2,4 being your punisher, try that out for d/f2? Kazuya is definitely a bitch for me too. On whiff I’m sure you could f+2,4 it if you had sidestepped, I have no idea what kinda frames it is on block. Kazuya is a bitch. :bluu:
But you should be confident in punishes, Lars has good punishment. For whiff or block you’ve got the f+2,4 for like 12 frames and a knockdown… If you block a sweep or duck a high that’s remotely laggy, while standing 1 into buff ass combo… or if they just whiffed jabs you get WS+2,1 which is natural combo, bound if airborne, and seemingly pretty safe(?). So at least if you block a hellsweep (good luck and have fun ducking into electrics >_<) you can get a good punish… or even duck a jab string.
I’m not that great and get raped by Kaz but I try to use b+1, fff+3, ff1+2 and play the range game against Kazuya and just dance around tryin’ to get him to whiff that long range kick he’ll try to counterpoke with. >_>
Sidewalk…
Everybody forgets to ss/sidewalk.
SS/Sidewalk~f24.
SS/Sidewalk~f1+2.
etc.
I’ve only been playing T6 for about a week or two using Lars, would anyone be able to play some matches with me on live to teach me how to improve and things I can do better?
I don’t think you can sidewalk/ss df+2 from kaz. That thing is fast and something vicious.
Aye, but df2 doesn’t have that great a range. And you can SW/SW a lot of his other attacks.
Kaz v Lars matchup is definitely in Lars’ favor.
Well, yeah, it doesn’t have that great of range, but he LOVES doing that whenever I try to go in for a combo or to get a counter hit df2 myself.
Try uf4. IIRC, that move jumps over df2.
Kaz doesn’t have an answer to db21 tricks either IMHO.