The King of Fighters 2002: Unlimited Match Thread

Current Fighting Games King of Fighters
2901

Ah, thanks. Yeah, I didn’t read all of the posts and knew he was making some point with that response but it didn’t make sense in the context I had read.

EDIT: About EX Takuma - someone said he’s like 98 version, I think its closer to say he’s pretty much 2000 Takuma. Movelist is pretty much identical. BTW, I hate 2K2 Takuma because he lacks conventional fireballs and lost some command moves. He lost f,hcf projectile (well the command and animation is still there, but…) too. I like EX/2000 Takuma because he’s closet to SvC Mr. Karate (I really like that version) just missing Dragon punch and Dragon punch super.

The only thing I like about 2K2 Takuma is the ranbu super.

2902

@Anarkon

You know what? Shut the fuck up. If you’re not gonna say anything nice, then just shut the fuck up you dipshit. My point is that if there are characters in a game that are on the console version but not in an arcade version, why not an arcade version? But then you say rude shit out of nowhere just to try to shut me down and make me feel bad? You totally ignore the point of what I’m saying and then say rude crap. You want to help the thread? Make a point instead of stating rude crap and trying to make people feel bad. “Your ignorance”, you just say really cocky crap and ignore the whole point in the first place. Also, that’s very disrespectful to insult the Juarez players. They’ve been playing for a very long time and to act as if they just picked up the game is a bit insulting. It proves nothing at all, but we’ll see what happens when Hummer and more Jap players come on over. : )

Second, what the Hell was that all about? You make a long post just to insult others? What’s that going to do for you honestly? I’m just saying, if you’re gonna post stuff, relax. Can we put this bullcrap aside and be calm about this for once? That’s all I ask. No insults, if someone makes a mistake, who cares? My bad, I listed characters that are also in the console version.

But my point is, what if someone does want to play Hotaru as their main? I main Hotaru in 11 (I have a tendency of using the harder characters in games to learn). If she isn’t in the arcade version, I’d be a little bothered to be honest because I wouldn’t be able to play to my full potential. I’m sure there are other people as well. Maybe someone wants to play Geese but he’s not in the arcade game. And Geese (In my opinion anyway) is a very good character in that game, but not to the point where he’s overpowered cause he isn’t even Gato.

Also, in tournaments, they allow glitches and bugs sometimes. These are unintended, but they’re still allowed within the tournament because people say “How are we suppose to know if they’re intended?” Probably as an excuse to use them in tournaments. So, how do we know if characters are intended for tournament use and does it really matter? I mean think about it, if characters aren’t broken and they can work in the tournament more than legit, why not let them in? What would it honestly hurt? The game’s the same, the only difference is that characters are excluded in the arcade version. Though, I understand people enjoy the Arcades. You meet new people, you can fight dedicated persons there (Sadly, we don’t have too many arcades around here. And the ones we do have are almost either empty or have mainstream crap like SF4, MvC2, Tekken 6, and a few other things that aren’t impressive). Still, if someone’s dedicated, why wouldn’t they want to take the challenge of fighting some new characters? Heck, maybe they’d even want to main some of them if they were given a try. EX Kyo is definitely S tier and I’m sure people would like to use him in tournaments cause of it.

Now, my point is, why’s it so bad? They’re just more characters to expand from.

@Hatred Edge

Yeah… I see your point. Well, people should try to take the time to see how op Geese is. Time should be taken to examine him more. I mean, he’s strong but it seems like there’s a way to counter a lot of what he does. Plus, he doesn’t really break the game.

Like you said, Igniz has that ridiculously easy infinite that he always has, Krizalid just gets Super by punching someone, Clone Zero has ridiculously good reach (not to mention his damage and ridiculous unpunishable super, plus the grab), Regular Zero is almost no better and can summon his Lion, and we all know what’s wrong with O. Rugal.

Maybe it’s just compared to these, Geese doesn’t seem so bad. He’s a really good character, but how big is his advantage in measurements from top tier to Geese. Is it so big that he should be banned? Also, why simplify things through arcade rules? Why not expand instead of just leaving the characters you’re familiar with? I know people want to play to win, but personally, I’d play to expand and for the challenge. Maybe Joe Shmoe wants to play Goenitz and prove how good he can be with him, but he can’t cause the Arcade rules stand. What if because of that, he didn’t have the tools he needed to win a tournament. Anyhow, this is just my opinion on the whole thing.

If this stops people from choosing a lot of the same character, nobody’s really using K’ in 2002UM often Sarcasm.

2903

I’m sure you find this concept amazingly difficult to grasp, but you actually have to be educated in order to have an educated opinion.

2904

And you must give a legit response in order for it to be legit. This ain’t one dude : P

Goenitz is good, but he ain’t no K’ in my honest opinion in many ways. What are your thoughts of someone wanting to play him in a tournament?

2905

Boss row was obviously not meant to be used in a competetive environment which is why they were REMOVED by SNK from the arcade version that was released after console. If SNK thought those chars should be tourney legal, they would have left them in like they did with EX chars. Why is it so hard for people to understand this? I thought we cleared up this bullshit already.

2906

B-b-b-b-but Orginal Zero is my favorite character design! He’s totally beatable, if you just use your characters well enough!

Only scrubs complain about boss characters. =/

2907

Honestly, I don’t see the point of them even going through the trouble of adding Geese and Goenitz, stripping them of boss like shit like retarded meter building and a long ass life bar, and then not just re balance them to actually be fair in the arcade version.

2908

rules are fucking rules bosses are banned in tournament play!!!

only scrubs use bosses

2909

I’ll disregard all the boss related shit because I could care less, anyway who’s the better choice, Kusanagi or Kyo-1?

Kyo-1 has that nice qcfx2 P DM that does pretty good damage and can hit grounded opponents, but his fireball seems hella slow compared to Kusanagi’s along with his sub-par looking normals

2910

Fan service.

2911

That was sarcasm

2912

Depends on the version.

Kyo-1 is one of the very few characters who actually got significantly nerfed in the arcade/Tougeki version.
His main strength over the other Kyos was his insane damage potential and DMs and they kinda took that away from him, so…

2913

I’m pretty sure he was making an inside joke

That’s disappointing, he seemed pretty interesting in OG 2K2UM

2914

Since when did all this conceptual crap come out of nowhere? Only scrubs use bosses? K’ is more of a boss than Goenitz. And when did it honestly matter what the designer’s crazy perception of what’s allowed or not allowed bothered anyone? Glitches are in fighting game tournaments and people don’t say jack shit about that and now you’re throwing some of these excuses around? Not to be a “dick”, but shouldn’t someone not being gay just allow him more reason to be in the game?

Geese, I won’t say crap about, but just cause Goenitz is in a row doesn’t mean he’s that bad. If you actually play Goenitz, I’m sure that chances are, K’ is still better than Goenitz. But K’ is not in the boss row, so we shouldn’t ban him even if he is better than said boss character. It’s based only on a his placement on the screen as a “boss character”. Now, I just want some more legit reasons on why someone like Goenitz isn’t allowed. Is there something I don’t know? He doesn’t seem broken. He’s good, but he doesn’t even seem like the best in the game. I can understand Clone Zero and all those other cracked out SNK Syndrome bitches. I don’t even play Goenitz as a main and I still think he deserves a spot.

I don’t want to hear “But SNK put him in the boss row because he’s a boss. So he must be banned.” Just tell me something he has that makes him so bad that he should be banned. Something about his gameplay that beats K’ and grounds him to dust. You guys think it’s scrubby of me to say this? Fine, I’m a scrub. But I think it’s pretty damned scrubby to give that reason as why he should be banned, cause last time I checked, Seth was legal in Vanilla SF4. He’s a boss character, but he’s not banned.

2915

Seth wasn’t banned in the US because unlike KOF, SFIV has a scene/community. You need that to bring forth discussion and change.
The SFIV community has good enough players to sell making bosses like Seth legal. I don’t think we have (enough) players like that.

And let’s say the bosses were inferior to K’. That wouldn’t change anything since K’ is in the arcade version and they’re not. The arcade rule is a case of “if it’s not broken, don’t fix it.” That’s why you need a scene. No scene? No one to listen to. You want change? All someone has to ask is WHO ARE YOU? And if you’re “nobody”, you’ve already lost.

2916

Well Hatred, that just flat out sucks. Still, it’s honestly better than nothing or most of the stuff anyone else has told me. Why not base it more on the idea of “Wow, this character is legit?” rather than the developers thinking a way that they never truly stated even though we exploit many things quite often. Ah well, there’s no helping it I guess.

From what I’m hearing though, is the Tougeki version of KOF2002UM that much of a let down?

2917

What validity do your opinions have if you don’t play the game competitively?

2918

My 50 cents on all this blah blah blah: As I have said before, unfortunately when people don’t do research for themselves they just take one or a few people’s words on everything in regards to a character being “XYZ” Good, so for example, take what Hatred said and he does make a valid point- in Mexico no one would really care about Geese because there are more than a few answers for him that Mexico already knows so as powerful as he is here in the USA most of it is due to lack of experience/inexposure.

Believe you me when I say he’s not all that in Mexico, but that’s like what Hatred says, that’s because Mexico has a scene in KOF that is not limited to just ONLINE or one location (The Geese Tower) or one major Arcade (Arcade Infinity). You got people that play all the time thus they will be able to tell if a character is overpowered pretty frequently, where on the contrast, people that don’t really play the game have nothing to go on but someone else’s word on something.

And as I said when that happens a scene caps out at the leaders because they are the only ones truly bettering themselves while a lot of others are just following their lead instead of discovering stuff for their own ON THEIR OWN.

For example, due to my travels in Mexico I can legitimately say Geese has problems against 10-15 characters in the game if played to their maximum potential, which begs the question, will you see some of these characters played to their maximum potential here in the USA like Angel?

Nope!!! I would as of now say Geese= 2002 Kim in this game that’s what I’d say, strong, has good options for high damage, uses meter effectively, but by no means is unbeatable and has some weaknesses, just takes exposure to fighting him to know what they are.

Also in my opinion yes it does depend on which game Tougeki or 2k2 UM OG in regards to Kyo-1 or Kusanagi, but I take Kusanagi over Kyo-1, Kusanagi has more options than Kyo-1 (I play them both I can explain), Kyo-1 yes that 50% combo is damaging but at a high level you more than likely are not gonna land it unless you combo it off cr.bx2,cr.axxsuper really fast or BC into it, sure at a low level it’s impressive but trust me at a high level because it is a HIGH (meaning its a straight up combo can block High or low) then it’s a lot harder to get than one might think.

Kusanagi has more options with the complete arsenal he has, the Df+D cancel, and his other specials. His BC comboes are also more practical than Kyo-1’s.

I’d rank Kusanagi and Kyo-2 on the same class, Kyo-1 slighly below them both. Kyo-2 has very practical BC combos as well and can get into them off lows and it is practical and not that hard, does good damage for BCs, so I rank him equal to Kusanagi.

Example of the combo with Kyo-2 off a low:
[media=youtube]_MtZU0eQ2rs[/media]

Does the same as Kyo-1’s combo that is a HIGH, though a level one, making it far more practical as a BC combo level 2. Plus Kyo-2 can do cr.bx2,cr.a to level one Mu Shiki…

-DG

2919

All I have to say is…

that we will use Tougeki version as the standard kof 2k2 um tournament game. There is no reason why we should ever use the vanilla 2k2 um ever again. There are tons of changes in tougeki vs. vanilla. So I hope we can all come to the agreement, that Tougeki is the standard 2k2 UM game!!!

I honestly don’t give a shit about Japan’s arcade scene. And their arcade scene should NOT effect our console/competitive scene. And to be very blunt, I’M SURE JAPAN COULD GIVE A FUCK LESS WHAT WE DO!!! And as I said for other fighting games (like GG and KOF XI), their rules are their rules because they NEVER run console tournaments over there. When japs came over to U.S for major tournaments like EVO, they had to adapt to our rules. Prime example would be SF4 (vanilla): They ONLY used arcade version in Japan, so when they come over here and play SF they had to get used to the console characters. Our rules. None of the console characters were labled broken and thus allowed for tournaments here in U.S.

This here…

http://shoryuken.com/f308/king-fighters-2002-unlimited-match-thread-164842/index119.html#post9199551

is the fairest post in the thread. Doesn’t matter if this guy plays competitively or not…it simply makes the most sense.

If Geese and Goenitz can’t be proven to be broken then they’re in. Simple as that. DG has already shown us the power of Geese/Goenitz. Through video. They’re a strong anchor characters. But not completely broken. Since a good majority of the cast can do hella damage.

You guys want them banned. Then prove why through video or concrete info. We need to test shit. Assumptions, IMO, made other fighting games BORING AS FUCK! Put effort into your cause. BUT DO NOT, use the shitty excuse “OH NOES THEY’RE NOT IN ARCADE VERSION…THEY’RE NOT UNLOCKED FROM DEFAULT…THEY WERE NEVER INTENDED TO BE USED…etc.”

Because none of that shit applies to the U.S anymore. We don’t have an arcade scene. We don’t want/need to mimic what Japan is doing (especially since they don’t give a fuck what we’re doing…well for snk anyways). This is the era of console.

Get used to it.

And finally for the record:

I don’t play Geese or Goenitz. I do think they are cool characters though. And I don’t like banning added console characters unless I KNOW THEY’VE BEEN TESTED and ARE 100% BROKEN (and I mean to the point other characters are unplayable period with no chance to win).

2920

If my words don’t provide validity, prove me wrong then. Tell me why Goenitz should be banned. That’s all I ask.

Goenitz’s standard combo does around just as much as some of the other characters in the game.

His tornado isn’t even that bad either, you just need a little patience to get past it and it’s not like his recovery time is ridiculous on it. You have to play pretty tricky with it as well cause if your opponent knows which you’re gonna throw out, he can roll past it and go in for possible punishment.

There’s also his DP which is obviously punishable. The C version leaves him very open for punishment if you’re not in the air and it’s not like it starts up immediately, all you have to do is duck and trip him. The A version leaves him pretty open for punishment too. If you get him to do it, jump in on him and punish. The only thing I can say about the A version that’s kinda “gay” is that if you hit them on block, you’re pushed back by quite a bit.

Then he has his teleport which kinda moves him to safety. You can’t even throw out an attack immediately after you see him come back. It’s not useless or anything, but

Now, his Rekka is decent, but that’s basically his combo/pressure option. You can probably put pauses in between to trick your opponent, but it’s not like it’s game breaking either. On it’s own, it does alright damage too. You can even probably roll past it if you predict it and punish.

Now, his pokes are alright. I see nothing to call home about with them cause some of them are just really standard or akward. They’re not even fast.

That reminds me, the guy only has two mixup options as well. One is his overhead which has a good amount of startup, but has pretty good reach. The other being his grab super which does pretty good damage, but not a crazy amount. You only lose around 1/4th of your health when there are characters who have super grabs that do way more like Clark’s.

Honestly, I don’t see the problem. Does he have some Max combo that breaks the game? I know he has a corner 100% combo, but it doesn’t look like it’d be ultra easy to set up AND it costs basically ALL of your super so it’s pretty impractical unless you’re on the last guy and you know you can land it.

I just want some legit reasons to why he’s banned is all. If you don’t respect my opinion Anakron, that’s fine. Treat it as a question. If you think I’m a scrub or something, sure, whatever. Then this scrub is asking you, what makes him illegal?