Found something with Ken.
If you do Ken’s forward throw, and hold up forward to jump, if the opponent rolls they’ll roll with your jump. And if you do a delayed HK air tatsu, when you land, whether or not the opponent rolled you’ll end up in cr.mk/step kick/sweep range and can continue pressure.
This also applies to Ryu since his forward throw is basically the same as Ken’s.
holy jebus. I’m such a scrub…ken’s target combo is -1 on block…SAY WHAT!!! Playing him since launch…and have not even tried to do it because i thought it was unsafe…
Dang. It’s that safe? That’s news to me…
Though personally, I haven’t used it because I’m not used to the spacing yet. If you’re too far you get a chain into far standing heavy punch instead of the target combo, and you can’t cancel Ken’s far standing heavy punch into anything except launcher. Granted, if you’re that far away I guess you should be relatively safe anyway.
target combo has some okay range. I know most people would try to outright punish it, but realize you can’t and ken gets a free combo or super arts.
I guess I should use this more. Especially since it serves as a bit of a hit-confirm itself, and it being safe and all…
yeah try it out. i sure will. i need to up my game with both characters. I think doing stuff that looks unsafe is a must. Because its the best way to see how your opponent will react.
Yeah, especially since most players will try to stick out a poke against something that looks unsafe, allowing you to raw launch them into a free combo. Condition them not to press buttons, and you’re free to walk in and throw or overhead.
Mind games!
I’m pretty sure Ken’s Target Combo is worse than -1. Ken can get a reversal HP SRK on a blocked Target Combo.
I haven’t played since April so I have little to no ideas of any Ken changes besides his Air-Tatsu.
Hmm…maybe Target Combo xx CADC is -1 then? Probably not…needs more testing I guess.
yeah it’s looking like -5 on block, but there is some push back on the move so you gotta have your counter attack spot on. I just needed to confirm myself. I barely used the target combo as well.
Where’d you get the -1 from anyway? Just wondering.
online google spreadsheet guide. i look to it from time to time to check up certain things. and i saw it there. trying to get the guide from a friend. I’m sure a new guide will come out soon. some of the newer characters frame data i need to know so i know what to do in those situations.
Ah, that’s what I figured.
Though, I wonder what Ken’s Target Combo xx CADC is on block? Seems like it’d be a decent hit confirm, since the target combo is two hits and it forces stand, and if they block it you can just dash out of the tatsu, and if it hits you can release it. If Target Combo xx CADC is relatively safe on block that could open up some interesting pressure opportunities.
well i’m away from my xbox but that’s something that would be nifty. On hit it seems to be -3 cause i tried to dp on reaction after the hit. But if you cancel the hp and maybe try and ex dash you could get something from it. Close lp is four frames and if you’re feeling a bit risky you can do cr. lk.
Or raw launch if you feel that the opponent is going to stick out a poke, DP tag if you have the meter and need to get Ken out of there, or if you feel your opponent is baiting a launcher/DP, throw or overhead (and if you did EX dash you can get a full combo).
Gonna test this once I get a chance. Cr.mk xx CADC is already pretty good…but the target combo xx CADC seems better since the 2nd hit of the target combo causes a lot more blockstun compared to cr.mk. And since it isn’t technically a chain you don’t have to EX to cancel it.
Edit:
Assuming that the guides frame data correct with the addition of the -5 on block, it may be safe.
Forward Dash = 18
Target Combo = Active:3 Recovery:24 ADV BLK: -5
Blockstun = Active + Recovery + ADV (3+24-5)
First CADC Frame = 6
CADC ADV = Blockstun - Forward Dash - Time until first CADC frame
CADC ADV = (22) - 18 - 6
CADC ADV = -2
Reference
so it seems that if you cadc you can get it to about -1 which puts you on advantage. It seems to suggest you can do something after a cadc. Glad you looked into it. Sorry i’m god awful at math ^^;;; glad you did it.
Well, I tested it in training mode, and I think it’s actually -4 on block. Ken could reversal DP it (3 frames), Sagat could reversal DP it (4 frames), but Hwoarang could not (5 frames). However, it’s definitely safe on hit, as Julia’s super couldn’t punish it (the guide says it’s 1 frame start-up, though I’m pretty sure it’s 2).
Still, considering the fact that it’s pretty much impossible to punish it on reaction, when used sparingly it might as well be safe. I’ll test it a bit more though, just to make sure.
EDIT: Double checked, tested with Sagat this time. LP Tiger uppercut (4 frame start-up) and MP Tiger uppercut (5 frame start-up) could punish it, but HP Tiger uppercut (6 frame) could not. So it appears it’s actually -5 on block. Unless the frame data on the guide is screwed up for the start-up on Sagat’s tiger uppercuts…
well there is that pushback. so you have to punish it quickly and ken can cadc and it seems he is -1 at worst.
No, the CADC is -5 on block. That’s what I tested. Target combo xx CADC is at least -5 on block.
However, considering the fact that it’s pretty much impossible to punish on reaction, it might as well be safe. Add the fact that you can dash backwards instead of forward from the CADC and you’re opponent will have a hard time punishing it properly. And since it is practically impossible to punish on reaction, you can just raw launcher or DP them if they try to stick something out to “punish” you. And if you think they’re going to try to DP you through it you can backdash instead to bait it.
It’s still a great tool for us Ken players to use, but it isn’t actually safe unfortunately…