if this was vanilla ST, yeah chickenwing kicks are hard for bison to deal with. however, the new chickenwing kick doesnt keep bison locked down as good as it used to.
mistime one, you’re most likely gonna get thrown.
bisons throw is much better than fei’s. with his walk speed rivaling yours. you won’t be out throwing bison after the chickenwing kick or whatever setup you have as well as you can compared to other characters.
bison’s standing mk and hk makes it extremely hard for fei to get in. i dont think fei has anything that beats those moves out aside from the flame kick.
i’m pretty sure a well timed psycho crusher will reset the situation against the chickenwing kick although theres a high probability of it trading which is worth it at most times.
i’m not disagreeing with you here. i really think t hawk kills chun better than anyone.
whether the new dive is better vs chun or not, the matchup still plays out the same. with the new dive, t hawk still have some momentum even if it gets blocked but with the old dive, the momentum you get after a knockdown is too valuable in some situations. i really think that sirlin should have given t hawk two versions of the dive.
i wish they kept the no whiff grab animation on the mexican typhoon but isn’t it possible to option select his super? that super technically has no whiff animation and the range on that thing is huge! i think his super is one of the better ones in the game.
Yeah st.HK can make it a little annoying, but j.LP makes it very easy for Fei to close the distance since Bison can’t hit him out the air plus has priority on almost everything Bison does. While his CW were nerfed, LK CW is Bison’s new terror (As well as Chun Li’s).
If Fei manages to get a knockdown in the corner, Bison is in trouble. He can’t grab Fei when he does LK CW and he can’t jump because he will get juggled by CW or get flame kicked in the air. Bison can hope to escape with scissor kicks or psyco crusher, but the threat of flame kick is always there. Plus Scissor kick sometimes gets juggled by CW for some strange awesome reason! At this point if he’s too scared to move you throw him.
To add to his bad luck, Fierce Psyco Crusher is punishable on block with Rekkas, and Fei’s st.HP stuffs scissor kick up close.
So in a nutshell, Fei has more mixups to keep Bison in the corner than Bison has options to escape the corner which would be Throw (Which only works if I attempt to throw you) Scissor Kick, and Super.
Maybe DeMavrick can give his thoughts on this matchup. :china:
how are you going to be in distance to land j.lp?. you can’t land it from close range since you’re most likely gonna be kicked by down by his mk and hks before you even leave the ground. from further away, he can jump back hk to hit with the tip of his foot or jump forward mps when he sees you jumping.
even if you manage to land it, theres always a possibility he can sac throw it. his j.lps doesnt hit too deep.
you can’t grab fei long during his chickenwing kick but you can definitely grab him after that. i know you can do another chickenwing kick/flame kick to beat his throw attempt, but against poorly distanced chickenwing kicks, he gets thrown easily before he recovers.
theres less room for error against bison than other characters since bisons throw range is so damn big. maybe it has something to do with his wierd hitbox too. (t hawks j.lps whiffs vs him, feis c.hp doesnt hit low vs him).
also, flame kick got nerfed hard. in vanilla ST, the lk flame kick was fairly safe on block, covers more distance and kept your opponents stunned longer. it was extremely hard to punish fei after a flame kick without eating back to back flame kicks. in hdr, its really easy to punish him.
since the distance on the flame kick is nerfed, the flame kick will completely whiff after a far distanced lk chickenwing kick.
bison dies to many characters when they get in on him. but until they do, bison does a really good job keeping them out with his mk, hk and scissor kicks.
By “normal throw” I hope you mean Typhoon. Cuz according to NKI’s translation of Akiba’s frame data, Hawk’s Typhoon and Super have the same range. Which is fine, considering Hawk takes longer to build meter than Zangief.
Perhaps we (as a group) could select a handful of representative players for each character, and have each of those pairs play 20 games and record the results? So for example
Fei: feii, aqua snake, jumpsuit
Honda: EA megaman, Thelo, Kuroppi,
Ryu: DGV, etc…
etc…
Then Kuroppi would play 20 games vs feii, 20 vs aqua, 20 vs jumpsuit. Post the results. Then 20 games vs DGV, etc…
We could then write out this matrix of results and that might give us a better understanding of how the tiers play out.
I guess that’s where we think differently. You believe you can keep Fei out easily and I believe he can close the distance easily. The only time I’ve been thrown out of the LK CW after landing is if the last hit whiffs. Otherwise I have never been thrown out of it by Bison if I do another one behind it (online or offline).
For me, a grounded Bison who just uses st.HK and scissor kicks to keep you out is easier to deal with than someone who jumps/flies all over the place (DeMavrick). And Blocked Flame Kick is punishable by Scissor Kicks as you said, but it’s all about knowing what Bison player your facing, and how well you can mix it up.
We need other Bison players input now!
If only you were on Xbox Live man we could settle this. :pleased:
After extensive playing with Fei Long, from a scrub’s perspective… I think he’s pretty darn good. If he’s at the bottom of the tier list, then I think being the worst in HD Remix isn’t the same as being the worst in most games (imo.)
I also started using Fei recently. He’s got some awesome normals and great speed. I don’t think he’s absolute last on the list, but I could definitely see him being lower.
IMO, Dictator beats Fei soundly when Dictator isn’t in the corner. CW lock down and Rekka’s after a block Fierce PC are the two things that Fei only really has in that fight.
What about a more simplified version of a tier list? Instead of assigning exact values for match ups, such as 6-4 etc, why not just give a simple plus or minus sign? Match ups which are thought to be equal are given a “0”. A plus sign represents an advantage, no matter how big or small and awards 1 point. A negative sign represents a disadvantage, no matter how big or small, and awards a character -1 point. For example, Boxers score would be a 7 in this system, while Sim would be at 3, DeeJay at 6, and Ryu at 7. The match up values I used were taken from Thelos list.
Just a random thought =] It would provide a good indicator of relative strength or weakness.
Edit: Sagat would be at 2, and Hawk at -10. Wow@-10