What, Akuma was balanced in ST?
Doesn’t elec now trade with hands? i can’t play the game at the moment so i can’t test but i thought it did?
slide > jab headbut on wakeup? wow thats cool, so isn’t it invincible from the 1st frame? I shall slide more often!
the ranking as far as I see atm
tops:
sagat
honda
akuma
highs:
blanka
boxer
dictator
claw
dhalsim
medium:
guile
ken
ryu
chun li
deejay
low:
hawk
zangief
fei long
cammy
guile is probably going to end up tops
He’s got all the tools now, lp sonic boom in to whatever is nice, give it a shot.
They either eat c.mk, f. rh or throw. In the corner if they jump, the rh still gets them some times too. Not to mention the rh flash kick is a nice addition, not a world beater or anything, but its nice to have.
Um, if you look at the leaderboard for XBL, most of the top 50 are tourney players, at least at the local level. Sirlin himself was the #1 player, and he’s entered a few tournies.
While there are a few online wizards out there, this isn’t the Main Event at the WSOP. The final table won’t be a bunch of random schmoes.
grouped in no particular order:
top
boxer
claw
sagat
sim
akuma
high
dictator
blanka
guile
geif
mid
honda
chun
ryu
ken
dj
hawk
low
cammy
fei
About this whole guile being tops so far I’m not seeing it yeah rh flash and new overhead make him significantly better but on the same level as rape machines such as claw and boxer? I don’t think so imo.
Blanka can just block low and not have to worry about overhead. It just doesn’t hit Blanka at all. Not that would keep him from being very good in this game but he just happens to be the one character that nullifies Guile’s 50/50 on wake up. Plus Blanka has a few other things that help him a lot in the matchup vs. Guile. Guile is still a way better character though and I actually like using him against scrubs. Between not being able to effectively jump over booms and having no idea that his f+HK is an overhead up close…it’s free wins.
From fifty or so games so far I think the majority of the problems I am having with Sim come from execution. It’s hard to change executing things on a dime, so I am losing more thna I think I will in a few weeks. Overall I think Sim has moved down to upper mid tier, and here’s why:
-
the number of matches he utterly dominated has gone down drastically. This was one of the big reasons for playing Sim. He hung with everyone and smacked down Thawk, shotos, Zangief, Fei, and guile. Now, his match against Gief/Hawk is much worse (especially hawk, with the dive spam bullshit)
-
His relatively even matches have gotten worse (cammy, blanka, bison) or stayed the same.
-
the majority of his bad matchups are just as bad or worse (chun, honda, claw).
the sole saving grace is that his Claw match is no longer a rapefest.
The super being nerfed is a big pile of shit. It was nerfed to the point that it doesn’t do a ton of damage despite limited range, and is not particularly safe.
I am not particularly convinced he does well against Akuma, either. With how slowly he jumps, you have to start being mega careful the moment akuma has meter.
Also, Akuma’s priority on jump kicks is so high I have been consistently losing to it with moves I would normally use to beat ryu (e.g. j.mk, etc. Maybe that is just a perception thing but I have a super hard time antiairing akuma.
All in all i think the nerfs are fine and slight, but I would not put him in the same category as Boxer, Chun or Akuma.
so far my tier list is looking like:
Retard Tier: Akuma
Top: boxer, chun
Not real sure about the rest yet but I am pretty sure Blanka moved out of bottom tier, and Honda moved up to upper mid.
EDIT: One more thing about sim - bad matchups of Honda and blanka were both drastically worsened, and those characters were both made viable. That’s the main thing that is going to bork sim out of being #1, imho, if it’s not because of akuma’s brokenness.
sagat is easily #1 imo.
he lost two things and gained many more
although tiger shots has been a tad slower and you cant buffer the second hit of his lk into a tiger shot, the tiger shots are still the fastest projectile in the game and he still has the best lockdown game in the cast
-the st:hd system of having more leeway with his dp helps him a lot since as choi mentioned, sagat is more about zoning and dping on reaction than ryu
-tiger knees are easier to do and tiger knee juggles are deadly; it takes out a quarter to 1/3 of your life
-anytime he has super, its not safe to do anything a quarter screen away
-he can tech throws now
he lost like 2 things and gained 4.
You’re right but o.sagat is still A LOT better then remixed sagat, his fb’s are still very fast but they no longer have the insane lockdown factor which is a big but needed nerf. The bigger nerf however, is when he extends his arms to fb he has n.sagat’s hitbox which I think was increased even more in sthd so he’s more vulnerable and has to be more careful. He’s still indisputably tops but the reason now is because he’s so well rounded instead of having a single dominating move which is also the case with claw.
I concur, Gat is brutal, and his FB hitbox seems rather large, better then Rog though?
I don’t think that’s what he’s saying. I think the idea is, when you compare the overall balance of the two games, you usually don’t include Akuma in consideration for ST, since he was banned, and obviously never meant to be a genuine competitive character. Since he is in HDR, you have to factor him in there. So if you’re comparing the two whole games, HDR seems generally more balanced than ST, with the exception of Akuma, who seems to be a more outstandingly strong character than the rest of the cast, and possibly more of an outlier than the best of tournament legal cast of ST.
He worded it a little awkwardly, but it makes sense.
Um… I am assuming that you meant the groups to be accurate, but just not ranked within each respectively?
Did you really mean to put Honda in the low tier group?
As far as Guile is concerned, the RH Flash might not be a huge buff but come on - goddamn is that overhead tasty. It opens a whole new world of mixups for him.
I fail to see how the Blanka/Honda matchups got worse
Honda:
- j. short getting beating sweeps doesn’t change anything since it owned up crouching punches in Vanilla ST. Plus using the j. short meant cutting the jump…short and not closing distance the way Honda wants
- jab headbutt nullifying fbs is essentially worthless from 3/4 screen out since you can just st. fierce him on reaction. If you were in a distance to be tagged by a jab headbutt going through fb, it probably wasn’t a good idea to throw a fb in Vanilla ST
- Ochio spam gone is always good for someone like sim who has a unreliable reversal
- buttslam still owns up, but that’s the same as before
Blanka:
Nothing changed. Still can hit Roll back regardless of hit or block. What else did blanka gain to help this matchup?
T.Hawk owns Sagat for free…that is all.
I’ve never played ST, and started with HDR. I’m also a big scrub at this game so take everything I say with a grain of salt.
As a Dhalsim player, I find Honda and Blanka two of the three toughest match-ups, the third being Vega.
I would assume that one of the biggest losses was Dhalsim’s long yoga-noogie. Just thinking about getting HP-throw range with his MP-throw is sick. Weakening the throw loop must’ve weakened Dhalsim’s comeback potential. I’m not saying that this change wasn’t warranted.
Secondly, I don’t think it’s has a lot to do with Honda and Blanka particularly gaining anything. You have really good points, and it looks like these were good matchups versus Dhalsim before, but now that they’re stronger against a variety of characters, it’s a compelling reason for more players to pick Honda and Blanka. It’s all about the metagame, and if people are using scissors more often, paper will inherently suffer.
Finally, if Dhalsim was truly as powerful as he was in vanilla ST, the nerfs were warranted. He has to work harder to win certain matchups, but all characters have to deal with it.
That was a mistake I edited it to put him in mid.
Like I said new kick and overhead are great but they don’t bump him up to the same level as others like sagat, rog, or boxer.
I’m pretty sure a year from now my tier list will be very accurate.
What I don’t get is why people are putting Chun in mid tier all of a sudden.
The only really bad nerf that she got is her Air SBK is stupid. And really, this only hurts her in like two matchups - her already worst ones. Other than that, Guile is a little harder, Ken might be a little harder, but most matchups are about the same, or even EASIER than before.
Keep in mind too, that Chun was 2nd tier for sure in ST, debatably top by some players (IIRC, according to one of the Wolfe brothers, Daigo said he thought that Chun was the number 1 character in ST).
At the end of the day, the Neckbreaker crossup nerf isn’t that big a deal, because it’s a potent move whether it hits or is blocked, and the super damage being nerfed isn’t a big deal at all, because by the time I hit you with it, you are probably going to die anyways. Chun got worse, but not worse enough to go down a tier.
Super damage nerf wasn’t a big deal? going from dealing 80%+ to almost half that is a huge nerf, buktooths chun tutorial said basically your gameplan is to build super and use it:rofl:
what sagats have you been playing against?