I’d say Deejay and Ryu are both 7-3 against Honda, if not worse (fake fireball is evil and should be burned), and I’d rather play against Ken then either of them. Honda-Bison the same as Honda-Hawk is interesting since Bison had buffs specifically to help him in the Honda match-up (standing jabs and Devil Reverse, though DR was also to help against 'Gief and Hawk as well).
Cammy does seem to do much better against Guile than she did in ST, but I don’t think i’d call it 5-5. I don’t exactly play a lot of Cammy, or guile for that matter, though, LOL.
I also fear Ryu’s Super more than Ken’s, in any match-up, just because Ryu’s can be used in so many different situations and is safe on block. Ken’s is only really usefull in a combo so you know exactly what he needs to do to land it and can avoid it. Plus it’s unsafe on wiff or block so he can’t just throw it out there like Ryu can.
But Ken’s is guaranteed and all he needs to land it is a crouching short. And if you try to escape and guess wrong, you eat a dp and have to guess again. I see Ken’s super landing way more often than Ryu’s against top players.
It’s his only non-Super reversal so it’s his only chance to get out of ticks and/or out of the corner (which in ST he had no way to get out, a knockdown by Honda in the corner against Bison was basically round over for Bison).
Damdai - Ryu can just as easily combo into his Super, and he can start the combo either with his overhead or cr.forward for a nice mix-up. I agree Ryu’s close up mix-ups aren’t as good as Ken’s with Super (knee bash is very nice) but I’d trade that for the better options that Ryu’s has. But then, you’re WAY better a shoto player than me, LOL, this is more from the facing against them side.
I think he’s under-rated. His zone game when played right is downright redonkulous with the new HP SRK arc. This is just what I’ve witnessed from top players in HDR.
You’re right, I wasn’t thinking as I typed that, LOL (doing two things at once here, i’m still at work). It’s really only usefull if they do a straight up tick on a downed Bison, he can at least reversal through the tick, which I guess is something, LOL.
If they tick into Special throw, you can DR and their whiff animation comes out which will miss you.
I mostly use this vs. T.Hawk when they walk up tick into Special grab.
You can guess wrong or get hit outta it, but it’s one of the defensive mix-up options to use.
But Ryu’s juggle into Super is solid.
Ryu’s safe (vs. most characters), long distance, and max hits chip damage from Super is solid.
Ryu’s Super to set-up ambiguous follow-up attacks is solid, etc.
I don’t play Ryu or Ken, but I know they each have their advantages with their Supers.
So if T.Hawk walks to you playing Dictator, point blank, and throws out a low jab, and then does a perfect tick command throw, and then you do a Devil’s Reverse (reversal timing) that the command throw will whiff even if it’s within range and perfectly timed? Are you sure about that? Does that happen in ST also because I’m certainly not aware of that?
Also Devil’s Hand requires a downward charge. So if your opponent is ticking into throw via a jump-in attack, like you get knocked down, then Hawk or Gief approach you from the air, then you have to block high (because jumping attacks act as overheads). If you block high, then you block the attacks successfully, but you can’t charge for Devil’s Reverse so you’ll eat the command throw every time (unless you have SUPER and backwards charge). If you block low, you still get your charge, but a good opponent will just hit-confirm you into a knockdown (and possibly dizzy) combo anyways.
Ken is underestimated somewhat. He doesn’t fight like ryu, and saying he is mid tier is just saying that he wins fine, just NOT AS WELL against claw, boxer, sim, and DJ. Ryu’s advantage over him isn’t fight breaking, and either can get momentum going. So I’m not really expecting him to be top tier.
I was simply going by Damdai’s own chart which put ken 1 point lower than ryu.
Wouldn’t that only work if they don’t combo, since taking a hit while crouching has a larger hitstun value, aren’t you just asking for a combo in that particular situation?
Usually when you’re ticking with Hawk (can’t speak for Gief), you go into the mind set of ticking. If you do J.Jab, Cr.Jab, and it ends up hitting Dictator, you’ll end up missing Dictator if you do a DP and he’s crouching.
You must be playing some terrible Dictators because T.Hawk’s jumping jab whiffs against a crouching Dictator. If you are trying jumping jab against Dictator as T.Hawk then you need to try harder. :wow:
CWheezy and JigglyNorris have it right.
It’s a reversal move, just like a flash kick.
I use it vs. x kuroppi x’s T.Hawk sometimes.
2:20 in [media=youtube]pkbxA3ZY1mI[/media]
(looks like he does it on the 2nd tick attempt)
In HDR doesn’t seem to work after the tick block into super.
Will still say reversal but I get grabbed.
In some of these sequences it looks like it is being done as a reversal to the initial tick itself:
[media=youtube]DEtCWmlud7c[/media]
It’s situational.
Sometimes the opponent doesn’t have the nice spacing/time to go for a massive hit confirm into grab.
And sometimes you can eat that first hit and just DR through the (sometimes) follow-up tick.
I’m not saying I use it much vs. a tick jump in, but I’ve done it.
And I’m not saying it works often, but sometimes Dictator doesn’t have a lot of options and has to take what he can steal.
As much as I love playing Ken, Zaspacer is absolutely right. Ryu’s Shinkuu Hadouken has far more practical use than Ken’s Shoryureppa because of it’s speed and horizontal range…which also lend to how safe it is. I mean, against Ryu, you pretty much have to be within jumping range in order to punish an errant super. Some characters can be even further away and punish you with their own super. When you’re fighting Ken, though, if it gets blocked or whiffs, you’re in for some hurt. (Online play makes it a little safer, but woe to you if the other character has a super that does damage well if it juggles.)
For Dictator’s new Devil’s Reverse, so if you are trying to reversal out of any meaty attacks that have active hit-boxes of durations greater than two frames (which is all of them if timed right), you are going to lose.
The only reason that Devil’s Reverse can get away from meaty fireballs so well is because Sirlin specifically designed the Devil’s Reverse to have extra invincible sections around Dictator’s legs from the second frame on during the animation that fireballs would pass through.
It still loses to cross-ups and jump-ins.
It’s not at all like a flash kick. A flash kick has active (or red) hit-boxes that will [media=youtube]6i1TPQQ_AVA"[/media] and not only will they win the situation but you’ll get a hit on your opponent and a knockdown.
If Devil’s Reverse does beat command throws (which I’m not convinced that it does at all) then it certainly works not in the same way at all that a flash kick (or reversal special attack) does.
Devil’s Reverse, if it allows you to fly out of command throws, is not the same at beating them with something like a flash kick or shoryuken. Though I’d still require hard definitive proof that Devil’s Reverse escapes from a perfect tick command throw.
Well yeah that’s because T.Hawk’s SUPER throw has [media=youtube]yY3Yx9mT6Ks&#t=1m40s"[/media] over some things.
I don’t think that the Devil’s Hand in ST there is beating the command throws. You can see that either Chikou is mistiming his inputs or he’s merely attempting the throw out of range. The reason Taira is inputting the Devil’s Hand commands in that match is simply to build meter and not to escape the throws. You see Dictator players building meter with Devil’s Hand in ST constantly while taking damage against Sim, Fei, the grapplers, etc. to build meter for SUPER.
Take a look later in the match, at 2:27 Chikou jumps in on Taira, after putting him in the corner. Notice that Chikou jumps in with a short or forward (and not a jumping jab because those whiff on a crouching Dictator) to force Taira to block high. Taira instead does a Devil’s Hand reversal and eats the jumping attack…but he builds enough meter for SUPER with it. Chikou taps Taira twice, then goes for a command throw, most likely the SUPER. However Chikou doesn’t negative edge, and eats a costly reversal SUPER from Taira (plus jumping strongs).
The reason that Taira sacrifices damage against the jump-in sequence from Chikou is because he knows he must build meter to get out of the corner. Against [media=youtube]DEtCWmlud7c"[/media] in ST, he has a throw animation, and must commit to the SPD. Meaning against a reversal SUPER from Dictator, Zangief is going to lose if he tries to throw. T.Hawk however can negative edge his command throws (including the SUPER), meaning a reversal move will just end up being blocked if you negative edge them (in ST, not HDR). Unfortunately many (even some of the best Hawk players in Japan) will button-down input command throws against Dictator players because they either forget to see if their opponent has meter, or they are forcing their opponent to input a reversal and want more chances themselves to throw. When your opponent is Taira I’d probably negative edge and not risk it.
So far I don’t see any convincing proof that Devil’s Reverse in HDR or Devil’s Hand in ST can beat command throws.